5 championships Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: Regular season, I agree with you. If you're scraping by on 1-2 point wins, you know the other side of the coin is going to show eventually. And coaches/teams are familiar with each other. For the most part, Izzo, Beilein and Painter know how to game plan for each other. However, in the postseason, that degree of familiarity isn't there. There are going to be stretches and runs based on quick adjustments, one player getting abnormally hot/cold, etc. Survive and advance. So giving up an 18 point lead raises no red flags to you? That’s not someone just getting hot thats a complete breakdown for an entire half basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosiertildeath Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Well , I am 77 years old and you show no respect for your elders !I have seen a whole lot more basketball in my life than you have ! I have seen enough basketball to know that pee yew has lived on luck all season and that luck is about to end ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, 5 championships said: So giving up an 18 point lead raises no red flags to you? That’s not someone just getting hot thats a complete breakdown for an entire half basically. Not really. It happened over roughly a 4-5 minute stretch after Cline came out of the game with his 4th foul. It’s the tournament and you expect good teams to go on runs. Not every game is Purdue-Nova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, hoosiertildeath said: Well , I am 77 years old and you show no respect for your elders !I have seen a whole lot more basketball in my life than you have ! I have seen enough basketball to know that pee yew has lived on luck all season and that luck is about to end ! Maybe you have seen more but I have been to hundreds or thousands of basketball games in person as well as watching 2 or 3 games a day on TV in my lifetime. I have not seen anything lucky from this run because they blew pout their first two opponents and had UT down 18 in the second half. Just because they are hitting a lot of 3's does not make them lucky but just good shooters. if you are 77 years old I would hope you would be mature enough to not resort to the childish name calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 15 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said: Maybe not. I am talking about the one where Cline bowled over a guy that had stopped in his tracks. I thought that was his fourth but I could be mis-remembering. Ahh yep we’re talking about different plays. The one you’re referencing was clearly a foul on Cline no doubt. That was his 5th and it happened a few minutes into OT. His 4th was when I think Bowden hit a 3 in the corner and they called Cline for fouling him on the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 22 minutes ago, hoosiertildeath said: BULL muffins ! Those (censured) jerks had more experience returning than Indiana did and they have not lost a single key player all season to injury ! Their streak of incredible luck is about to run out ! I can hardly wait !!! I mean we were due for some good luck on the injury front don’t you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, hoosiertildeath said: Well , I am 77 years old and you show no respect for your elders !I have seen a whole lot more basketball in my life than you have ! I have seen enough basketball to know that pee yew has lived on luck all season and that luck is about to end ! By definition if you run on luck an entire season it ceases to be “luck.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: I mean we were due for some good luck on the injury front don’t you think? I think you all are still at a deficit in the injury/luck department from Hummel alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosiertildeath Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 LMAO ! PS , prior to this season I kept a score sheet on 400 games or more every season ! Only my illness kept me from it this season !that statement about if it has been luck all season it is not luck (imho) makes no sense ! It just means they have had more than their share of luck !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 51 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Did not say that we shouldn't want tournament success but I never say in a certain year it is championship or bust because a lot of things can happen. I would just rather enjoy 4 months of great basketball and maybe have to go through one disappointing day in March than struggling through regular seasons and maybe making a descent run. Depends how you define "struggling", Old School Scott, but the 80-81 team had a lousy pre-conference season including going to Hawaii and losing to both Clemson and Texas Pan American. They did turn it around to win the conference title, and March was probably the most impressive tournament run I have seen in my 61 years, winning every tournament game by double digits. Going back to how we sat on New Year's Day 1981, with a 7-5 record, I sure enjoyed the run over the struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Not really. It happened over roughly a 4-5 minute stretch after Cline came out of the game with his 4th foul. It’s the tournament and you expect good teams to go on runs. Not every game is Purdue-Nova. Even worse your Team can blow an 18 point lead in 4 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Luck, so what? To win, things fall in place. IU pulled one out against LSU in 1987 which wasn’t exactly a convincing win, but no one refers to it that way. How about Coleman’s missed free throws. To the winners come the spoils. As for Archie and culture, he tolerated way too much this season. He sacrificed culture for less important things and was way too cautious. That’s hardly a ringing endorsement that he’s going to play guys who eat nails for breakfast. He was way too permissive this year. Small sample size and hopefully he will learn from it, but we have a guy going through on the job training. At Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: Depends how you define "struggling", Old School Scott, but the 80-81 team had a lousy pre-conference season including going to Hawaii and losing to both Clemson and Texas Pan American. They did turn it around to win the conference title, and March was probably the most impressive tournament run I have seen in my 61 years, winning every tournament game by double digits. Going back to how we sat on New Year's Day 1981, with a 7-5 record, I sure enjoyed the run over the struggle. Well that team won the big ten so the regular season was not a disappointment. What I am saying I would rather win the big ten and lose early than maybe finishing 6th but make a run to the sweet 16 or elite 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, AxnJxn said: Well, Tom Crean won 2 titles in his time here, and he was fired. Why? Well, there were a number of reasons, but one of them was because of his team's failures in the tournament. Winning a B1G title isn't enough for this program, and it shouldn't be. It's not enough at the other blue blood programs, and if we're going to continue to act like we're still one, the expectations should be set accordingly. FYI, I'm also an "old school" type, and I do believe that competing for a B1G title is important (as did RMK), but more because I think that prepares you for success in the tournament. IU Scott said consistently compete for conference titles. Crean's problem was he would win the conference and then miss the tournament the next year. His problem was consistency.If he had made the tournament the Vonleh year and his last year, avoiding the massive swings, he'd probably still be here even despite not breaking through the Sweet Sixteen yet. But, he couldn't roster build for sustained success and his recruiting fell off. I'm with IU Scott. My goal is for IU to consistently compete for Big Ten Titles, while winning our fair share or more. If you're regularly in the top 3-4 of the Big Ten and winning it every couple of years or so, then the NCAA Tournament will take care of itself. Like IU Scott said, that doesn't mean the Tournament doesn't matter, I just think the Tournament is about at-bats. You need to get high seeds as consistently and often as you can and if you do that you're going to break through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 48 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Not every game is Purdue-Nova. Thank God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 41 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: I think you all are still at a deficit in the injury/luck department from Hummel alone. Probably accurate. Those two injuries were awful. Talk about a great player/person being dealt a crappy hand twice in consecutive years. Glad he's found his calling card in broadcasting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 12 minutes ago, BGleas said: IU Scott said consistently compete for conference titles. Crean's problem was he would win the conference and then miss the tournament the next year. His problem was consistency.If he had made the tournament the Vonleh year and his last year, avoiding the massive swings, he'd probably still be here even despite not breaking through the Sweet Sixteen yet. But, he couldn't roster build for sustained success and his recruiting fell off. I'm with IU Scott. My goal is for IU to consistently compete for Big Ten Titles, while winning our fair share or more. If you're regularly in the top 3-4 of the Big Ten and winning it every couple of years or so, then the NCAA Tournament will take care of itself. Like IU Scott said, that doesn't mean the Tournament doesn't matter, I just think the Tournament is about at-bats. You need to get high seeds as consistently and often as you can and if you do that you're going to break through. Gleas and I have agreed on this before, I'm agreeing again. The B1G is, regularly, deep on elite and tourney teams. Competing regularly at the top of the conference matters on several levels, and will lead to tourney success. Crean built some great teams. His recruiting / roster management, though, led to regular fall-offs and missing the tourney, which in turn led to reduced recruiting success, which then of course fostered further fall off. Crean developed and/or otherwise helped several guys get to and thrive in the League, Vic, OG, Troy, Yogi, Bryant, Cody, et al. He failed to build the roster to handle departures, like the year when Wat left with everyone except Yogi. CAM looks to be building his squad for the future. He did it at Dayton, let's see what he does here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, 5 championships said: So giving up an 18 point lead raises no red flags to you? That’s not someone just getting hot thats a complete breakdown for an entire half basically. Eh, it happens. If it happens all the time then yes, that's a problem. But it's going to happen. The other team is trying too and most likely you're not going to completely shut down a talented team like that. I actually get most nervous when teams I root for, wether it be NFL, NBA, college sports, etc., jump out to big early leads. The game is long, the other team has talent too and you know they're going to make a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, 5 championships said: Even worse your Team can blow an 18 point lead in 4 minutes. I think a big part of that was due to Cline coming out and his replacement turning the ball over and simply TN hitting some tough shots. It's not ideal but Purdue weathered the storm and won. I feel like in the past, Purdue loses a game like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 Just now, BGleas said: Eh, it happens. If it happens all the time then yes, that's a problem. But it's going to happen. The other team is trying too and most likely you're not going to completely shut down a talented team like that. I actually get most nervous when teams I root for, wether it be NFL, NBA, college sports, etc., jump out to big early leads. The game is long, the other team has talent too and you know they're going to make a run. This was me seeing the score of the Purdue/Nova game flying home from Vegas. Even when it was a 25 point lead, I kept thinking hey, Nova is still a really good team and has won 2 of the last 3 titles. I kept thinking they'd cut it to 12 and then panic would set in. Luckily it didn't pan out that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, BGleas said: IU Scott said consistently compete for conference titles. Crean's problem was he would win the conference and then miss the tournament the next year. His problem was consistency.If he had made the tournament the Vonleh year and his last year, avoiding the massive swings, he'd probably still be here even despite not breaking through the Sweet Sixteen yet. But, he couldn't roster build for sustained success and his recruiting fell off. I'm with IU Scott. My goal is for IU to consistently compete for Big Ten Titles, while winning our fair share or more. If you're regularly in the top 3-4 of the Big Ten and winning it every couple of years or so, then the NCAA Tournament will take care of itself. Like IU Scott said, that doesn't mean the Tournament doesn't matter, I just think the Tournament is about at-bats. You need to get high seeds as consistently and often as you can and if you do that you're going to break through. I have no problem with the idea of competing for B1G titles on a regular basis. But, if you can't combine that with a few deep runs in the tournament, I'm not sure you can last long term at a school like IU. However, as I noted before, those expectations may have changed with the newer generation of fans. My point with Crean was that I don't think he gets fired if he goes to the FF with that team that flamed out against Syracuse, or had a little more overall success in the tournament. I personally wanted more consistency out of the program as well, and thought moving on from him was warranted, but we're again talking about a generation of fans that might accept Crean's results since they've never seen us win much of anything. It's entirely possible those fans would be happy with the results that Painter has had at Purdue, too. I guess a better question is, would the old school fans accept the results that Tony Bennett has had at UVa, particularly with respect to his issues in the tournament? I'm pretty sure I know the answer with respect to Painter, but that might be a good question as well - would those results be acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 13 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: I have no problem with the idea of competing for B1G titles on a regular basis. But, if you can't combine that with a few deep runs in the tournament, I'm not sure you can last long term at a school like IU. However, as I noted before, those expectations may have changed with the newer generation of fans. My point with Crean was that I don't think he gets fired if he goes to the FF with that team that flamed out against Syracuse, or had a little more overall success in the tournament. I personally wanted more consistency out of the program as well, and thought moving on from him was warranted, but we're again talking about a generation of fans that might accept Crean's results since they've never seen us win much of anything. It's entirely possible those fans would be happy with the results that Painter has had at Purdue, too. I guess a better question is, would the old school fans accept the results that Tony Bennett has had at UVa, particularly with respect to his issues in the tournament? I'm pretty sure I know the answer with respect to Painter, but that might be a good question as well - would those results be acceptable? I am pretty sure the guys that have responded to you are no the younger generation of fans since I am 48 years old have e seen 3 national championships. I just think some of our fans are not realizing that college basketball ahs totally changed to when we were more of a dominate program. Recruiting is way more national now and with AAU ball these kids are getting recruited by everyone in the country. Also with about every game on national tv kids are not worried as much about leaving their state or region because their parents can still watch them play. Including myself I think one thing that hurts this fan base is living on our past and tradition. I would love to have the regulars season that UVA has had over the last 5 years where they have won the ACC 3 of the last 5 years and getting a #1 seed twice. he has now gotten to the elite 8 twice so yes I would take that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I am pretty sure the guys that have responded to you are no the younger generation of fans since I am 48 years old have e seen 3 national championships. I just think some of our fans are not realizing that college basketball ahs totally changed to when we were more of a dominate program. Recruiting is way more national now and with AAU ball these kids are getting recruited by everyone in the country. Also with about every game on national tv kids are not worried as much about leaving their state or region because their parents can still watch them play. Including myself I think one thing that hurts this fan base is living on our past and tradition. I would love to have the regulars season that UVA has had over the last 5 years where they have won the ACC 3 of the last 5 years and getting a #1 seed twice. he has now gotten to the elite 8 twice so yes I would take that here. Even with the first ever 1 seed loss to a 16 seed? IU would never live that down from Turdue and fUK fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 25 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: I have no problem with the idea of competing for B1G titles on a regular basis. But, if you can't combine that with a few deep runs in the tournament, I'm not sure you can last long term at a school like IU. However, as I noted before, those expectations may have changed with the newer generation of fans. My point with Crean was that I don't think he gets fired if he goes to the FF with that team that flamed out against Syracuse, or had a little more overall success in the tournament. I personally wanted more consistency out of the program as well, and thought moving on from him was warranted, but we're again talking about a generation of fans that might accept Crean's results since they've never seen us win much of anything. It's entirely possible those fans would be happy with the results that Painter has had at Purdue, too. I guess a better question is, would the old school fans accept the results that Tony Bennett has had at UVa, particularly with respect to his issues in the tournament? I'm pretty sure I know the answer with respect to Painter, but that might be a good question as well - would those results be acceptable? I think you're missing the point a bit. It has nothing to do with lowering expectations. We all want deep tournament runs. What IU Scott, HH and I are saying is that the Tournament can be a bit of a crap shoot/luck thing. The best way to have Tournament success is to consistently get high seeds. It increases your chances and opportunities for deep runs. The best way to get high seeds in the Tournament is to consistently be in the Big Ten Title race. If you're consistently competing for a Big Ten Title then you're going to regularly be seeded in the top 4 range, giving you the best chance to make Tournament runs. Again, it's not about lowering expectation whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, BGleas said: I think you're missing the point a bit. It has nothing to do with lowering expectations. We all want deep tournament runs. What IU Scott, HH and I are saying is that the Tournament can be a bit of a crap shoot/luck thing. The best way to have Tournament success is to consistently get high seeds. It increases your chances and opportunities for deep runs. The best way to get high seeds in the Tournament is to consistently be in the Big Ten Title race. If you're consistently competing for a Big Ten Title then you're going to regularly be seeded in the top 4 range, giving you the best chance to make Tournament runs. Again, it's not about lowering expectation whatsoever. Yeah, I think I get what you guys are saying, and I agree - a B1G title should be first priority, because that generally leads to tournament success as well. But, my question is still the same - would you be ok with those B1G titles and results if the tournament results weren't there, like what Bennett and Painter have done? Because, let's face it, for those of us that are older (I was on campus for the '87 title, so I'm pretty sure we're the same generation), we expected both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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