PGA/General Golf

[Indykev]

Hank Haney

 

@HankHaney

·

6h

 

All the majors are done and now it’s the LIV’s turn.

@SaudiGolfLeague

This week will be one player after another running to be a part of it. Not inviting

@PhilMickelson

and

@SharkGregNorman

to the champions dinner and Tiger’s press talk won’t stop what’s coming.

[Indykev]

Stenson, Cam Smith, Hideki Matsuyama, Patrick Cantlay and Tommy Fleetwood. Maybe all to LIV this week, we'll see. Bubba Watson once he gets healthy. More names to come. The PGA Tour better pick up the phone and work a deal before its to late. Norman has $3 Billion Dollars to pay players. The largest deal reported is $200k. Thats a lot of players he can pay at that rate.

Edit: Maybe add Tony Finau to the list.

2nd Edit: Adam Scott, Marc Leishman. Names are flying around all over the place. Hearing some wont happen until after the Prez cup.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Indykev

[Indykev]

ASIAN TOUR EMBRACES LIV SERIES AS GOLFERS LOOK TO FAR EAST FOR POINTS

ST ANDREWS, Scotland - The Asian Tour will reap the benefits of an acrimonious feud between the PGA and DP World Tours and the rebel LIV Golf Series as golfers from the breakaway Saudi-backed venture look to the Far East for tournaments and ranking points.

The Asian Tour, with an infusion of Saudi Arabian cash and a new international series of tournaments, is waiting with open arms to welcome the defectors banished from playing on the established U.S. and European Tours for signing on with the insurgent LIV operation, Asian Tour CEO Cho Minn Thant told Reuters.

LIV will pour $400 million into the Asian Tour according to Cho, which will underwrite the international series and drive up purses from, in some cases $750,000, to $1.5 million or $2 million.

But it is ranking points not money that will be the attraction for the LIV's most prominent names such as major winners Phil Mickelson, Bryson Dechambeau, Dustin Johnson and Brooks Koepka, who were paid fortunes just to sign on with the controversial newcomers.

"They've certainly got a place to play on the Asian Tour, the international series in particular," Cho told Reuters. "Now that they have temporarily left the PGA Tour they'll be looking to play more events on the Asian Tour to keep their rankings up.

"I foresee a lot of them coming together as a group to play multiple Asian Tour events because power in numbers, the more players inside the top 100 that come to play the higher the strength of field."

With just eight tournaments on the LIV schedule this season and super-sized purses of $40 million at each event players will have plenty of money and time.

What the LIV Series cannot offer yet are ranking points, the currency that allows entry into golf's biggest events, the four majors -- the Masters, British Open, U.S. Open and PGA Championship.

"Anything we sanction and counts on our order of merit gets world ranking points," explained Cho. "So any of international series events we do with LIV sanctioned by the Asian Tour carries world ranking points.

"A lot of players have identified the window between November and January and that is perfect for us it is either the very end of our season or the start.

"It suddenly makes us a lot more attractive to sponsors."

Describing himself as a mostly anonymous figure, Cho laughed as he admitted to a sudden surge in popularity, offering waves and smiles to passersby at the St Andrews' Old Course while enjoying a coffee alongside the first fairway.

The notoriety is understandable.

Along with an increase in prize money, Asian Tour players have been guaranteed up to eight of the 48 coveted spots in 48-man fields at LIV events this season with some of golf's biggest draw cards heading to Asia to the delight of sponsors, promoters and fans.

Cho has been in demand ahead of the British Open at St Andrews this week, running to a string of meetings, including one on Tuesday with the Official World Golf Ranking.

"About 18-months ago there was a proposal from the PGA Tour through the DP Tour and we evaluated that against the Saudi proposal," said Cho, swatting aside concerns about entering an alliance with a LIV Series that has been accused of being a 'sportwashing' vehicle for a country looking to improve its image in the face of criticism of its human rights record.

"We decided to go with the Saudi proposal and since then there hasn't been much talk.

"My job is to look after the members of the Asian Tour and we've done what's right."

Courtesy of the Philippine Daily Inquirer wires/Reuters

 

 

So there you have it. The PGA Tour tried to buy them first but LIV beat them. The PGA Tour trying to buy the World of Golf, to keep their cash cow.

 

Sorry for not just linking the article but I cant link on this site anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[5fouls]

2 hours ago, Indykev said:

Stenson, Cam Smith, Hideki Matsuyama, Patrick Cantlay and Tommy Fleetwood. Maybe all to LIV this week, we'll see. Bubba Watson once he gets healthy. More names to come. The PGA Tour better pick up the phone and work a deal before its to late. Norman has $3 Billion Dollars to pay players. The largest deal reported is $200k. Thats a lot of players he can pay at that rate.

Edit: Maybe add Tony Finau to the list.

2nd Edit: Adam Scott, Marc Leishman. Names are flying around all over the place. Hearing some wont happen until after the Prez cup.

What can the PGA possibly do to counter-act that type of money?  It seems like if they don't take a hard stance, all of the big names would look for a piece of the LIV pie, and the PGA becomes something akin to the Korn Ferry Toiur.    As it stands now, I can only imagine there would be a lot of hard feelings among the players if guys that did defect were also allowed to play in PGA events.    

[Seeking6]

2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

What can the PGA possibly do to counter-act that type of money?  It seems like if they don't take a hard stance, all of the big names would look for a piece of the LIV pie, and the PGA becomes something akin to the Korn Ferry Toiur.    As it stands now, I can only imagine there would be a lot of hard feelings among the players if guys that did defect were also allowed to play in PGA events.    

I honestly don't know besides the majors getting together and saying never again. With Stenson though here's my thing. LIV has been saying we want to grow the game and  promote golf. Them cherry picking a washed up player has nothing to do with growing the game....but sticking it to the Ryder Cup folks. 

PGA has a couple choices. Do nothing and wait this out and hope it corrects itself. Or hard stance time saying you'll never play any of our tournaments again. There isn't a middle it seems like because settling would appear weak and I don't think the PGA wants that one bit.

[Indykev]

5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

What can the PGA possibly do to counter-act that type of money?  It seems like if they don't take a hard stance, all of the big names would look for a piece of the LIV pie, and the PGA becomes something akin to the Korn Ferry Toiur.    As it stands now, I can only imagine there would be a lot of hard feelings among the players if guys that did defect were also allowed to play in PGA events.    

The stance they need to take is we dont care where you play but to be a member of this tour you have to play 12 events, 15 events. Whatever that number is. Look its like this. The top 50 players care about themselves and to hell with everyone else. The tour thinks the same way. There is an old saying, half the field wishes you play bad and the other half wishes you play worse.

I could see the tour going to this. The top 50 in the world play the PGA Tour for $20 million a week. Everyone else plays the Korn Ferry Tour and fills in on the PGA tour when guys take weeks off. Top 100 in the world keeps their cards, everyone else goes to Q School.

[Indykev]

3 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

I honestly don't know besides the majors getting together and saying never again. With Stenson though here's my thing. LIV has been saying we want to grow the game and  promote golf. Them cherry picking a washed up player has nothing to do with growing the game....but sticking it to the Ryder Cup folks. 

PGA has a couple choices. Do nothing and wait this out and hope it corrects itself. Or hard stance time saying you'll never play any of our tournaments again. There isn't a middle it seems like because settling would appear weak and I don't think the PGA wants that one bit.

Stenson is still a name, thats what they are after right now. The Ryder Cup is ran by the PGA of America, who has a vote whether or not LIV get World ranking points. Norman isnt trying to stick it to them.

They have already taken the hard stance and its been meaningless. Time to work it out with all tours, or lose in court.

[Seeking6]

3 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Stenson is still a name, thats what they are after right now. The Ryder Cup is ran by the PGA of America, who has a vote whether or not LIV get World ranking points. Norman isnt trying to stick it to them.

They have already taken the hard stance and its been meaningless. Time to work it out with all tours, or lose in court.

I keep going back to what Monahan said with Nantz when things first started going.......and it's been echoed by Tiger and many others. The words true competition. Those words weren't plucked out of thin air. They were used for a reason and I'm trying to piece this puzzle.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-antitrust-liv-golf-report

The excerpt below from article says plenty.

One of the provisions in the PGA Tour Player Handbook and Tournament Regulations is that each PGA Tour member acknowledges the commissioner, the tour’s policy board and the appeals committee have the authority to permanently ban a member from playing in a tour co-sponsored, approved or coordinated tournaments if the member violates its regulations. The handbook also provides that a player ceases to be a member of the PGA Tour if, in the judgment of the policy board, the member commits a serious breach of the Tournament Regulations, the PGA Tour’s Code of Ethics, or otherwise conducts himself in a manner unbecoming of a professional golfer.

Now again trying to put this puzzle together legally....I think (besides the 3 conflicting event releases each player gets already) they are going to battle that the LIV tour violates this part of the handbook because it's not legit, true competition to begin with. Their tournaments are a farce so it doesn't hold up to the antitrust claims LIV will say in court. The PGA will say we don't recognize you as a legit competition so the antitrust claims aren't valid.

My wife's friend from law school is an attorney with PGA. Had some beers with him couple weekends ago at a cookout and he won't ever say a thing but I jokingly asked him about billables this fall and he said....should be a good year. Haha.

[Indykev]

10 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I keep going back to what Monahan said with Nantz when things first started going.......and it's been echoed by Tiger and many others. The words true competition. Those words weren't plucked out of thin air. They were used for a reason and I'm trying to piece this puzzle.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-antitrust-liv-golf-report

The excerpt below from article says plenty.

One of the provisions in the PGA Tour Player Handbook and Tournament Regulations is that each PGA Tour member acknowledges the commissioner, the tour’s policy board and the appeals committee have the authority to permanently ban a member from playing in a tour co-sponsored, approved or coordinated tournaments if the member violates its regulations. The handbook also provides that a player ceases to be a member of the PGA Tour if, in the judgment of the policy board, the member commits a serious breach of the Tournament Regulations, the PGA Tour’s Code of Ethics, or otherwise conducts himself in a manner unbecoming of a professional golfer.

Now again trying to put this puzzle together legally....I think (besides the 3 conflicting event releases each player gets already) they are going to battle that the LIV tour violates this part of the handbook because it's not legit, true competition to begin with. Their tournaments are a farce so it doesn't hold up to the antitrust claims LIV will say in court. The PGA will say we don't recognize you as a legit competition so the antitrust claims aren't valid.

My wife's friend from law school is an attorney with PGA. Had some beers with him couple weekends ago at a cookout and he won't ever say a thing but I jokingly asked him about billables this fall and he said....should be a good year. Haha.

Its the restricting of player movement that they will lose on. Players are independent contractors not employee's and shouldn't be held to that handbook. That is what they will argue.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Indykev

[Indykev]

David just left NBC for LIV. Maybe they can get Gary McCord out of his forced retirement. lol.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Indykev

[Indykev]

TNT’s Charles Barkley said he was set to have talks with LIV Golf to be a part of its broadcasts.

With the on air talent LIV is bring on, it would appear to me a TV deal is coming soon. FOX maybe?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Indykev

[Indykev]

Listened to the Gary McCord show on PGA Tour radio today. He said LIV came to him a month ago. Not sure whats going to happen but said he would give anything to work with David Faherty again, would jump at the chance. He said he couldnt talk about David because he had signed an NDA with LIV. Then Charles Barkley was his guest. Charles said a friend told him Norman wanted my number I said ok. He said Norman called him and they set up a meeting for Wed. in Atlanta. Said he has never met Norman and has no idea what he wants. Is very excited for the meeting and would love to work with David and Gary. Charles said he has 3 years left on his deal and doesn't know if TNT would let him do LIV. He also said sponsors of his are concerned and have been ringing his agents phone off the hook. Mentioned Dicks Sporting Goods and a couple others. He added he knows he would lose some deals if he sign with LIV but was ok with that. Said LIV would need to come big for anything to happen. Charles said which I found interesting, was he has gotten 25 calls from golf announcers asking him if he was going. He said all want to go to LIV but no one wants to be first. He said I think Faherty just changed that and look for media people to start jumping faster than the players.

McCord at the end of his show slipped I think. He said when its worked out He and Charles would start next season while Faherty starts right away. I still say they have a TV deal under wraps here and will go live next year.

[Indykev]

Hearing 3 players will be announced this week. 3 more next week before the tournament starts. After the Fed Ex cup all hell will break loose. Norman is telling people they have already signed every player they wanted for next season. WOW.

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, Indykev said:

Hearing 3 players will be announced this week. 3 more next week before the tournament starts. After the Fed Ex cup all hell will break loose. Norman is telling people they have already signed every player they wanted for next season. WOW.

Every player they wanted?  Wouldnt that be everyone in the Top 50?  That would include guys who have pledged allegiance to the PGA.

[Indykev]

40 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Every player they wanted?  Wouldnt that be everyone in the Top 50?  That would include guys who have pledged allegiance to the PGA.

i'M GUESSING he should have said every player that said yes are signed. Some are going to shock us. I talked to a friend this morning who's on tour. He said most of the top player behind the scene is in the ears of the LIV players asking about how everything is, whats it like, how well is it ran. This one pissed me off, he said more than a few players gave their caddies at least $2 million bonus for going to LIV with them. I might have to come out of retirement. lol.

[Indykev]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:43 AM, Seeking6 said:

I don't how I've missed him or maybe it's just because I'm watching more closely this week....but this John Wood guy on NBC is really good. He just said trying to miss bunkers at St. Andrew's is like dropping a marble in your bathroom sink and hoping it misses the drain. Haha....

John was the long time caddie for Hunter Mahan.

[Indykev]

The field just came out. Just like I was told, 3 players coming this week.

[Indykev]

LIV Sponsors:  AT&T could be the first sponsor to buy a LIV team, valued at $1 billion per 4 man team. Adidas is another name - the rumor is that they are currently buying out clothing sponsors to be the face of a specific team. LIV is going to be like F1 teams, all with sponsors. Here is another thing that points to a TV deal being in place.

[Indykev]

My guesses this week. Adam Scott, Henrik Stenson, Jason Kokrak.

[Indykev]

29 minutes ago, Indykev said:

My guesses this week. Adam Scott, Henrik Stenson, Jason Kokrak.

Just got a text saying Matsuyama, not Scott yet. Other 2 maybe right on target. The PGA Tour losing Matsuyama would be a huge blow. #14 in the World Rankings. Kokrak #36 in the world.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Indykev

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, Indykev said:

i'M GUESSING he should have said every player that said yes are signed. Some are going to shock us. I talked to a friend this morning who's on tour. He said most of the top player behind the scene is in the ears of the LIV players asking about how everything is, whats it like, how well is it ran. This one pissed me off, he said more than a few players gave their caddies at least $2 million bonus for going to LIV with them. I might have to come out of retirement. lol.

I think it's safe to say that professional golf as we've known it is over.  Honestly, about the only three names that would be surprising at this point would Rory, J. Thomas, and Tiger since they have publicly spoken in favor of the PGA.  That said, they definitely seem to be making more inroads with the International players.

In your estimation, how much of it is money and how much of it is being disenchanted with the PGA?

 

[5fouls]

5 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Just got a text saying Matsuyama, not Scott yet. Other 2 maybe right on target. The PGA Tour losing Matsuyama would be a huge blow. #14 in the World Rankings. Kokrak #36 in the world.

Matsuyama is a blow, but not surprising,  Especially if the Asian tour thing plays out as outlined above.  That said, I get the feeling that he's already peaked as far as career goes.  I know he's still young, but he doesn't look like the same player he was a couple of years ago.  

[Indykev]

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Matsuyama is a blow, but not surprising,  Especially if the Asian tour thing plays out as outlined above.  That said, I get the feeling that he's already peaked as far as career goes.  I know he's still young, but he doesn't look like the same player he was a couple of years ago.  

He is 30. Just hitting his peak. I'm sure winning the Masters has taking up some practice time. All his commitments in Japan.

[Indykev]

14 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I think it's safe to say that professional golf as we've known it is over.  Honestly, about the only three names that would be surprising at this point would Rory, J. Thomas, and Tiger since they have publicly spoken in favor of the PGA.  That said, they definitely seem to be making more inroads with the International players.

In your estimation, how much of it is money and how much of it is being disenchanted with the PGA?

 

The PGA Tour can stop this anytime they want by just sitting down with LIV and working it out. Over $400 million in tour purses, for some its the money yes. I think its the freedom of movement that driving these guys along with the format and schedule.

[Indykev]

52 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I think it's safe to say that professional golf as we've known it is over.  Honestly, about the only three names that would be surprising at this point would Rory, J. Thomas, and Tiger since they have publicly spoken in favor of the PGA.  That said, they definitely seem to be making more inroads with the International players.

In your estimation, how much of it is money and how much of it is being disenchanted with the PGA?

 

Just got another text saying 8 guys would be announced after the FEDEX Cup. Those will be the big names that are going to get sponsors asking questions of the PGA Tour, like what and the hell are we paying for.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Indykev