DWB Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 Listened to Kitchel's interview with the Hoosier Hysterics guys today. Pretty good stuff. But the thing that got my attention is his take on Fred Glass. According to Kitch, Glass committed to look closely at former IU guys, and that would be his preference. But supposedly, Glass never even contacted Alford, Wittman, Woodson, Isiah or any other former IU player turned coach, to even see if there was any interest, much less, interview them. Kitch indicated he talked directly to a couple of the potential IU candidates, and indirectly thru former team mates about other potential IU candidates and nobody even got a phone call to assess interest in the job. I have no reason not to believe Kitchel, as he's always been very straight forward, and brutally honest (which is an endearing trait to me). But what REALLY frosts me, is that Glass is requiring all past players to PAY for IU tickets now. How stupid is that??!! These guys poured their hearts, souls, blood, sweat, and tears for IU, and Glass says "pay me". Unbelievable. Up to now, I've given Glass the benefit of the doubt, due to the improvement of facilities (even though most improvements are coming from donations rather than budget) and FINALLY getting rid of Crean (albeit 2-3 years too late), but with this new knowledge (for me at least) of what Glass is pulling, (and who knows what else he's pulling) particularly with former players is disgusting IMO. Archie is trying to reach out to some of the former players, but with "policies" like this in place and the "tell them what they want to hear, then do what the hell you want" strategy, it's no wonder the guys coming back into the fold are few and far between. Not that many former players live close enough to come to games. So the "revenue loss" of a few tickets isn't gonna bankrupt the program. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish... Sorry for the long rant. But you should listen for yourselves to see if you agree or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierhoosier Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 I think Glass held on to Crean for too long, but not interviewing those guys for the job doesn't bother me much. Personally, i think Archie is the guy, and none of the above would be better. I am guessing there is more to the old players paying....maybe some had their hand out or wanted great seats....idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 To me none of the former players were qualified for the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 I can understand Alford not getting a call. As great a player as he was. Over the past ten years, we have had numerous members who had face to face run ins with him, during his time at IU. Those are things that just don't go away. Happened again at both Iowa and UCLA. Seems New Mexico was the only place that liked Alford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 So Kitchell publicly trashed the sitting IU AD, because he didn't interview his friends and won't give him freebies? To me it sounds like Glass may be better for the program than Kitchell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted September 24, 2019 Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 I didn't listen yet, but I am looking forward to it. I have heard Ted speak on this before, and I think his point is not that Glass needed to hire an IU guy. But it would have helped create unison and cohesion if he brought some of them into the tent and discussed it with them. Ted Kitchell is one of my all time favorites, maybe because I was in junior high and high school so I looked up to Wittman and Kitch in particular. Kitch is an all time favorite broadcaster of mine. When he did color with Laz it was just awesome. He would point out details and what should be happening if there were a mistake. But he wasn't nagging. I took it as him teaching the game, much like Coach on his weekly shows. It's stuff like this for decades that has allowed the IU fan base to be as smart as there is when it comes to basketball knowledge. As a whole, we know what we are looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted September 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2019 30 minutes ago, IU Scott said: To me none of the former players were qualified for the job Agreed, but that wasn't Kitchel's point. Evidently Glass either went public saying he would prefer an IU guy, or at least told the former players that he would prefer an IU guy. Kitch's point is that he lied and never even contacted any of them. I think the world of Archie. I have no doubt he will get us back to where we need to be, but if Kitchel is correct, Glass lied to the fanbase. Unacceptable IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, DWB said: Listened to Kitchel's interview with the Hoosier Hysterics guys today. Pretty good stuff. But the thing that got my attention is his take on Fred Glass. According to Kitch, Glass committed to look closely at former IU guys, and that would be his preference. But supposedly, Glass never even contacted Alford, Wittman, Woodson, Isiah or any other former IU player turned coach, to even see if there was any interest, much less, interview them. Kitch indicated he talked directly to a couple of the potential IU candidates, and indirectly thru former team mates about other potential IU candidates and nobody even got a phone call to assess interest in the job. I have no reason not to believe Kitchel, as he's always been very straight forward, and brutally honest (which is an endearing trait to me). But what REALLY frosts me, is that Glass is requiring all past players to PAY for IU tickets now. How stupid is that??!! These guys poured their hearts, souls, blood, sweat, and tears for IU, and Glass says "pay me". Unbelievable. Up to now, I've given Glass the benefit of the doubt, due to the improvement of facilities (even though most improvements are coming from donations rather than budget) and FINALLY getting rid of Crean (albeit 2-3 years too late), but with this new knowledge (for me at least) of what Glass is pulling, (and who knows what else he's pulling) particularly with former players is disgusting IMO. Archie is trying to reach out to some of the former players, but with "policies" like this in place and the "tell them what they want to hear, then do what the hell you want" strategy, it's no wonder the guys coming back into the fold are few and far between. Not that many former players live close enough to come to games. So the "revenue loss" of a few tickets isn't gonna bankrupt the program. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish... Sorry for the long rant. But you should listen for yourselves to see if you agree or not. The interview done last week stated that IU gives two free tickets a year to every former player. I know when I heard that I thought why only two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Gave up on Ted and a few of his similar guys years if not decades ago. They chose the route of their is way is better. Might be but if you love the program you don't let personal grudges get in the way of something much much bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Fiveoutofsix said: The interview done last week stated that IU gives two free tickets a year to every former player. I know when I heard that I thought why only two? because there's hundreds of former players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Glass did say he would reach out to former players, he didn't. I dont care about that. But to charge former players to go to a game is a joke. Set a row or 2 behind the bench for former players. First come first served. You wonder why we don't see former players in the Hall. Magic is at every big game MSU plays, you think he is buying his ticket? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 Dakich gets into several games a year for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUaic Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: Dakich gets into several games a year for free. Unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricBoogaloo Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 14 hours ago, DWB said: Listened to Kitchel's interview with the Hoosier Hysterics guys today. Pretty good stuff. But the thing that got my attention is his take on Fred Glass. According to Kitch, Glass committed to look closely at former IU guys, and that would be his preference. But supposedly, Glass never even contacted Alford, Wittman, Woodson, Isiah or any other former IU player turned coach, to even see if there was any interest, much less, interview them. Kitch indicated he talked directly to a couple of the potential IU candidates, and indirectly thru former team mates about other potential IU candidates and nobody even got a phone call to assess interest in the job. I have no reason not to believe Kitchel, as he's always been very straight forward, and brutally honest (which is an endearing trait to me). But what REALLY frosts me, is that Glass is requiring all past players to PAY for IU tickets now. How stupid is that??!! These guys poured their hearts, souls, blood, sweat, and tears for IU, and Glass says "pay me". Unbelievable. Up to now, I've given Glass the benefit of the doubt, due to the improvement of facilities (even though most improvements are coming from donations rather than budget) and FINALLY getting rid of Crean (albeit 2-3 years too late), but with this new knowledge (for me at least) of what Glass is pulling, (and who knows what else he's pulling) particularly with former players is disgusting IMO. Archie is trying to reach out to some of the former players, but with "policies" like this in place and the "tell them what they want to hear, then do what the hell you want" strategy, it's no wonder the guys coming back into the fold are few and far between. Not that many former players live close enough to come to games. So the "revenue loss" of a few tickets isn't gonna bankrupt the program. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish... Sorry for the long rant. But you should listen for yourselves to see if you agree or not. Let's see... Alford - I won't even go there. Wittman - Former NBA head coach. Why would he want to be a college assistant? Would he even want to do recruiting at the level required? Woodson - NBA head and assistant coach for 20+ years. Again, why would this guy want to be a college assistant? Isiah - WHAT?!? So much to say on this one. One the one hand, a basketball HALL OF FAME INDUCTEE as the third assistant on the staff? Laughable. On the other hand, disastrous runs as a coach and GM especially in New York culminating with sexual harassment lawsuits. Then 3 years at FIU where he went 26–65 in three seasons. Somehow overqualified and under qualified for the same job. It's ridiculous to hear this whining and moaning about not contacting a bunch of guys who are, to put the best spin on things, overqualified to be the 3rd assistant. AND THEN we go out and hire a former player who fits the program and role perfectly but Kitchel is upset we didn't talk to his guys. Man... if you think Fred isn't the right guy for the job, then fine, a lot of people would agree with you. But if any of these whiny turds was the AD, they would inadvertently flush themselves and the program down the toilet before you can say "what stinks in here?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said: Let's see... Alford - I won't even go there. Wittman - Former NBA head coach. Why would he want to be a college assistant? Would he even want to do recruiting at the level required? Woodson - NBA head and assistant coach for 20+ years. Again, why would this guy want to be a college assistant? Isiah - WHAT?!? So much to say on this one. One the one hand, a basketball HALL OF FAME INDUCTEE as the third assistant on the staff? Laughable. On the other hand, disastrous runs as a coach and GM especially in New York culminating with sexual harassment lawsuits. Then 3 years at FIU where he went 26–65 in three seasons. Somehow overqualified and under qualified for the same job. It's ridiculous to hear this whining and moaning about not contacting a bunch of guys who are, to put the best spin on things, overqualified to be the 3rd assistant. AND THEN we go out and hire a former player who fits the program and role perfectly but Kitchel is upset we didn't talk to his guys. Man... if you think Fred isn't the right guy for the job, then fine, a lot of people would agree with you. But if any of these whiny turds was the AD, they would inadvertently flush themselves and the program down the toilet before you can say "what stinks in here?" I believe he’s referring to the head coaching job after Crean was canned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricBoogaloo Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said: I believe he’s referring to the head coaching job after Crean was canned. Ah, that makes more sense. As far as Alford and Isiah go - thank god they weren't contacted for the job. Wittman and Woodson - would they have even wanted it given their NBA resumes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 15 hours ago, Muddy River said: So Kitchell publicly trashed the sitting IU AD, because he didn't interview his friends and won't give him freebies? To me it sounds like Glass may be better for the program than Kitchell. No win for Glass. Had they been interviewed and not hired, he would have been slammed for window dressing and wasting their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 I'm torn on this - probably because we don't have all the details and we've only gotten one side of the story. While I do see the players' points, I also think there's a bit of entitlement going on. I've learned many times in my life that when I'm faced with a decision you can muddy up your process by getting too much input from people who base their opinions off of their own positive/successful experiences. It's human nature, but what has worked for some, might not work for others. Many of these guys played 30+ years ago and they wanted input in a major coaching decision when the game has drastically changed since they were in school. And from listening to all the Knight-era players on the HH podcasts I've learned that many value the same things: accountability, more skill/role players, a disciplinarian coach, etc. I'm not saying they are wrong; it's what worked for them and they were successful, but how many former players do you need to meet with to get the same input? How many Joe Hillmans does Fred need to invite into his office to tell them how things worked back when they played when it's not relevant to today's game. We can cry and moan about how 'soft' kids are today, but they're not suddenly going to change and fit the mold of some traditionalist's perception of how a college basketball player should play, think and act. We aren't going to find another Coach Knight - and if we do, their tactics won't be 100% successful with this generation of players. Heck, we were already finding that out in the late 90's when Knight WAS the coach. Kids are recruited differently, they are coached differently and the game is played differently. While I love all our former players and love the memories they gave me, my perception is that many of these guys want to slow a boulder from rolling down a hill rather than run with it. If Fred does not agree with that approach, he's not going to bring in droves of players to change his mind. On the other hand and just to clear the air, I would like to know who Fred Glass consulted because that is what he promised. And so my general stance is not misconstrued, I do think these players are important to Indiana Basketball. We can't pitch history to incoming recruits and then not make an effort to mesh our history with the current program. I really get the feeling that Archie is attempting to build that bridge and I hope that one day the divide will be fused. We want these guys around our program and our players. The main remedy for this will be winning. Winning will cure so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierTownie Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 I haven't listened to the podcast, but going off the names listed in the thread, it's a pretty short list. Are these the guys Kitchell wanted IU to speak with about the job? What about Keith Smart, Dane Fife, Michael Lewis, Tom Coverdale, Sherron Wilkerson, AJ Guyton, Lawrence Frank, and I'm sure there's more. Not saying all or any would have been the right guy for the job, but all former Hoosiers who are or have coached. How do we know they weren't contacted regarding the coaching search? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 The real issue is not whether any of our former players are qualified to be HC, or whether they are stuck in the past and wouldn't be able to succeed with today's kids. To me, the issue is one of credibility. If the AD comes out and publicly says he's going to do something, and then does not, that's a significant slight. Especially, as the last head coach was known for not reaching out to former players, and the fact that CAM has made it a priority to reestablish those ties, it would seem to me to be important that Glass backs his HC, his hire, in every way possible. For a program that has sputtered on the floor the last 20 years or so, we need all the goodwill we can generate. Whether that's by extending ticket offers to ex-players, to reaching out to them when we say we are going to do so, perception is reality. The banners hanging in AH are certainly used to illustrate IU's pedigree to recruits and prospects. Would be exceptional for Fred to throw some love to those responsible for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: To me, the issue is one of credibility. If the AD comes out and publicly says he's going to do something, and then does not, that's a significant slight Do we know that he didn't? Because he didn't talk to Kitchell or any of his friends, does that mean he didn't talk to any former player? There's a lot of former players, is Kitchell close to all of them? Also, unrelated to you personally, I find it funny how many people bash IU Scott on here for constantly looking backwards, and then bash Glass for not looking back enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Steubenhoosier said: The real issue is not whether any of our former players are qualified to be HC, or whether they are stuck in the past and wouldn't be able to succeed with today's kids. To me, the issue is one of credibility. If the AD comes out and publicly says he's going to do something, and then does not, that's a significant slight. Especially, as the last head coach was known for not reaching out to former players, and the fact that CAM has made it a priority to reestablish those ties, it would seem to me to be important that Glass backs his HC, his hire, in every way possible. For a program that has sputtered on the floor the last 20 years or so, we need all the goodwill we can generate. Whether that's by extending ticket offers to ex-players, to reaching out to them when we say we are going to do so, perception is reality. The banners hanging in AH are certainly used to illustrate IU's pedigree to recruits and prospects. Would be exceptional for Fred to throw some love to those responsible for them. I agree with your overall point, this is more about whether Glass was disingenious or not, as opposed to whether or not he considered or contacted an 'IU guy' or not. But, something we need clarification on, and I haven't listened to the podcast, is whether Glass told Kitchel privately that he was going to interview IU guys or is Kitchel just going off that one line Glass made when he announced Crean's firing about how being an IU guy would be an extra 'check' in the plus column. Here's Glass' quote on the coaching search: “To me,” Glass said, “being a former IU person is a double-check plus. Being from the state of Indiana is a double-check plus. Collegiate head-coaching experience is certainly a double-check plus.” If that is what Kitchel is basing his displeasure on, then that is Kitchel's issue. Those comments from Glass are not a promise to interview or even gauge interest from IU guys. It's basically an, "if all things are equal, then being an IU guy is a good thing." Now, if Glass did tell alum that he would definitely interview former players and didn't, then I can see why former players would be upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 17 hours ago, DWB said: Agreed, but that wasn't Kitchel's point. Evidently Glass either went public saying he would prefer an IU guy, or at least told the former players that he would prefer an IU guy. Kitch's point is that he lied and never even contacted any of them. I think the world of Archie. I have no doubt he will get us back to where we need to be, but if Kitchel is correct, Glass lied to the fanbase. Unacceptable IMO. what would you expect glass to say if put on the spot about whether he would seek input from former players? "no, i don't need or want any advice from former players"?. picking the coach is glass' job, not the former players or anyone else. the politics of the job requires that he say the "right" thing with regards to our basketball alumni. to call him a liar is an immature viewpoint in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 11 hours ago, Indykev said: Glass did say he would reach out to former players, he didn't. I dont care about that. But to charge former players to go to a game is a joke. Set a row or 2 behind the bench for former players. First come first served. You wonder why we don't see former players in the Hall. Magic is at every big game MSU plays, you think he is buying his ticket? NO. i'm sure magic could scratch together enough to pay for a ticket. he's nearly a billionaire. he has likely donated enough money to their program to pay for season tickets many lifetimes over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 25, 2019 Report Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said: No win for Glass. Had they been interviewed and not hired, he would have been slammed for window dressing and wasting their time. and if one of them had been hired and failed it would cost him his job. glass' loyalty, number one, is to the fans. the most important aspect of his job, and the decision which will ultimately determine his tenure, is hiring the basketball coach to bring indiana back to elite status. it is not to kiss ass former players. can we at least give archie miller enough time to prove what he can do before running glass through the wringer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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