Cutter Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 9 hours ago, IU Scott said: All I am doing is showing that a coach who guys would think would be a good hire struggled early on as well. It just hsows you that even if a coach struggles early does not mean he can't turn it around. A straight forward question, does it appear that CAM is going to turn this around and be a final four teM in the next 2 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Maybe it was already covered. Thought it was interesting Izzo was very, very complimentary of Gard at Wisconsin after the game yesterday. Went on to say he's a coach's coach and likes to see teams that play hard for their coach, team, and university. Hmmmm....Tommy. Yet when we beat your team into the ground it's always some fluke player or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Seeking6 said: Maybe it was already covered. Thought it was interesting Izzo was very, very complimentary of Gard at Wisconsin after the game yesterday. Went on to say he's a coach's coach and likes to see teams that play hard for their coach, team, and university. Hmmmm....Tommy. Yet when we beat your team into the ground it's always some fluke player or whatever. I don't think the Millers are on the Izzo family Christmas card mailing list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 13 hours ago, IU Scott said: No true IU fan would want that man coaching IU No true IU fan would continue to support losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Cutter said: A straight forward question, does it appear that CAM is going to turn this around and be a final four teM in the next 2 years? So if a coach doesn't get us to a final four in 4 years then we should fire him. Final four should always be a goal but if he doesn't get us to the final four the next to two years should not be a reason to fire him. If we finish well in the conference and make the tournament and win some games then he shouldn't lose is job. If we don't ake it this year or next then yes it will be time to look elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 37 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: No true IU fan would continue to support losing. True fans support teams win or lose and stay with them through thick and thin. If you leave during the bad times don't come back when the good times start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, IU Scott said: True fans support teams win or lose and stay with them through thick and thin. If you leave during the bad times don't come back when the good times start. I’ll never stop supporting IU basketball. But I’m done with mid major Miller and Fred & Shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: I’ll never stop supporting IU basketball. But I’m done with mid major Miller and Fred & Shoulders. I'm not there but I get the sentiment. Every fan can act how they want and right now there are plenty of fans who have just grown tired of trying to figure out why we can't get things figured out. I've mentioned my older aunt (80)on here a couple times. Usually we wait to dissect weekend games over coffee on Monday morning. She's already texting this morning asking me why is it so hard to find a shooter? I told her when she gets the answer to let me know because I'm out of answers on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, IU Scott said: So if a coach doesn't get us to a final four in 4 years then we should fire him. Final four should always be a goal but if he doesn't get us to the final four the next to two years should not be a reason to fire him. If we finish well in the conference and make the tournament and win some games then he shouldn't lose is job. If we don't ake it this year or next then yes it will be time to look elsewhere. I have much higher expectations than you do! Just making the tournament by the skin of our teeth is not enough! You say and win some games , so exactly what are you talking about? Winning four games in the tournament puts us in the final four! It will be clear in the next two years what condition the program is in! Heck even Glass sss as I’d when he hired Archie that big championships, final fours and national championships is the expectation. If we just barely make the tournament the next two or three years and our not competitive I think that will be clear a change needs to be made. Win a few games in the tournament in two or three years is not enough! I WANT TO WIN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerawkid Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Cutter said: I have much higher expectations than you do! Just making the tournament by the skin of our teeth is not enough! You say and win some games , so exactly what are you talking about? Winning four games in the tournament puts us in the final four! It will be clear in the next two years what condition the program is in! Heck even Glass sss as I’d when he hired Archie that big championships, final fours and national championships is the expectation. If we just barely make the tournament the next two or three years and our not competitive I think that will be clear a change needs to be made. Win a few games in the tournament in two or three years is not enough! I WANT TO WIN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! Why do you presume you have “higher expectations?” You think Scott doesn’t want to win championships? A bunch of you need to take a step back from the ledge. Just because there are some us of us imploring some degree of patience, that doesn’t make us less than fans. It doesn’t mean we aren’t frustrated. We just have a different way of dealing with our feelings about how things are going. No coach should get anything less than 4-5 years to turn the direction of a program around. Period. The two biggest issues have been pointed out and are above reproach: 1.) Cycling culture is sometimes linked to absolutely cycling players, despite best efforts otherwise. 2.) It’s an absolutely abhorrent look to present to the further pool of talent you’d otherwise consider to take the reigns. It screams that a program is desperate to a detrimental level and can’t be trusted to allow a coach enough time to get things working, that is, not a shred of job security. People need at least a hint of that to work to their potential. Trust me, a good number of us who are taking the long road with Archie find this petulant perspective as ridiculous as you apparently find ours’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, zerawkid said: Why do you presume you have “higher expectations?” You think Cutter doesn’t want to win championships? A bunch of you need to take a step back from the ledge. Just because there are some us of us imploring some degree of patience, that doesn’t make us less than fans. It doesn’t mean we aren’t frustrated. We just have a different way of dealing with our feelings about how things are going. No coach should get anything less than 4-5 years to turn the direction of a program around. Period. The two biggest issues have been pointed out and are above reproach: 1.) Cycling culture is sometimes linked to absolutely cycling players, despite best efforts otherwise. 2.) It’s an absolutely abhorrent look to present to the further pool of talent you’d otherwise consider to take the reigns. It screams that a program is desperate to a detrimental level and can’t be trusted to allow a coach enough time to get things working, that is, not a shred of job security. People need at least a hint of that to work to their potential. Trust me, a good number of us who are taking the long road with Archie find this petulant perspective as ridiculous as you apparently find ours’. I am taking the long road as are many others! I am a pulling for CAM but I am very disappointed in year three. As I pointed out in two or three more years and all we have done is squeeze into the tournament with just a few wins over that period it will be obvious a change needs to be made! You take any perspective on it you want! I live in the Bloomington area and have got my whole life so I know thousands of people and let me tell you lots of them are not even watching some of the games any more! Get off the message board and get out in real life and take the pulse of the real Hoosier nation and get some real opinions! I know people in the athletic department as anyone who has grown up around here does and let them tell you how they feel! Don’t undersell the basketball programs struggles! Being overly patient and lowered expectations is what got us where we are! Why don’t you go sugar coat some cookies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDB Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 I was on the fence at the beginning of this year. I truly expected this IU team to be MUCH better than last years experiment. Archie's teams play with no heart. If IU misses the tourney in year 3, Archie will not lose his job. However, things are going to get VERY ugly. Maybe the expectations need to be lowered to the Iowa/ Illinois level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Illinois Iowa is a heavy weight slug match. Tied up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerawkid Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Cutter said: I am taking the long road as are many others! I am a pulling for CAM but I am very disappointed in year three. As I pointed out in two or three more years and all we have done is squeeze into the tournament with just a few wins over that period it will be obvious a change needs to be made! You take any perspective on it you want! I live in the Bloomington area and have got my whole life so I know thousands of people and let me tell you lots of them are not even watching some of the games any more! Get off the message board and get out in real life and take the pulse of the real Hoosier nation and get some real opinions! I know people in the athletic department as anyone who has grown up around here does and let them tell you how they feel! Don’t undersell the basketball programs struggles! Being overly patient and lowered expectations is what got us where we are! Why don’t you go sugar coat some cookies! A lot to unpack here. I’ll reiterate: proximity to Bloomington doesn’t quantify the level of fan someone may or may not be. You and your Bloomington area friends who may or may not be in and around the athletic department don’t have special jackets made only for you. Fandom isn’t an exclusive thing. It’s something a random group of people have in common. And thank you, I will maintain my perspective on matters. They suit me well because I find them to be at once realistic, with an expiration date, and not without expectations. “Just chill” is my message. Give this ginormous boat a chance to make a full tack. Getting so worked up over it, what does it accomplish, Cutter? Tell me that. What good is doing you personally? Is it effecting anything on the court or within the program? Progress is being made. People underestimate just how holistic the approach needed to be. But, our Kenpom is up year over year over year. We are in a funk again, but we are positioned to make the tournament. We are closer to having even more high motor guys in the program at the expense of some rather lackadaisical upper classmen. Things are, on the whole, from the 50,000-foot view, improved and moving in that direction. Lastly, I will go and have some sugar cookies. They are yummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 My quick assessment. We can't handle Garza. If you are a bettor and they say Garza plus minus 18, bet all you, your family's, and friends money on the over. He'll likely put 30+ on us. Only chance we stand is to put TJD on him when he roams out side but we have no one that can stop him inside. Cockburn won't hurt us as bad because we can throw 3 and 4 bodies at him and he can't shoot. The problem with Illinois is they have 3-4 guys that are blow by drivers and we suck at stopping the ball and it's at Illinois. I recommend trying to be busy for that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 hours ago, dbmhoosier said: I’ll never stop supporting IU basketball. But I’m done with mid major Miller and Fred & Shoulders. Where do you think most of the all time great coaches started, it was at a mid major and they worked themselves up to the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Cutter said: I have much higher expectations than you do! Just making the tournament by the skin of our teeth is not enough! You say and win some games , so exactly what are you talking about? Winning four games in the tournament puts us in the final four! It will be clear in the next two years what condition the program is in! Heck even Glass sss as I’d when he hired Archie that big championships, final fours and national championships is the expectation. If we just barely make the tournament the next two or three years and our not competitive I think that will be clear a change needs to be made. Win a few games in the tournament in two or three years is not enough! I WANT TO WIN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! I can't see the future so I have no idea how things will work out. I said if we compete in the conference which would mean we would not get in by the skin of our teeth. Also in the tournament it is a crap shoot but if we get a good seed then we could make a good run. I just rather look at things in a positive light because it makes life a lot better and makes you happier. I would hate to look at things in a negative light every day because that is just not a good way to go through life. I have seen IU win 3 national championships and love to see more. I also think if we as a fan base could not just turn on a coach after a couple of years that would make it easier to get back on top. Also it took some of the great coaches many years before winning their first national championship so patience is a great virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 26 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Where do you think most of the all time great coaches started, it was at a mid major and they worked themselves up to the top Uh Knight, Roy, Izzo and Wooden all started winning right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Watching the UI and Iowa game and just can't believe how much better Garza has become this year. I hope our big guys especially TJD take notice and work on getting stronger and working on their perimeter skills. I would think with how this year has went that Garza is probably gone after this year to the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerawkid Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Just now, dbmhoosier said: Uh Knight and Wooden both started winning right away. It was a different time, my friend. The level of competition nowadays, the parity in the game, miles from what it was when those fellas got it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said: Uh Knight and Wooden both started winning right away. and both of them started at a mid major level as well and that was my point. Also Wooden did not win his first championship until year 14 at UCLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, zerawkid said: It was a different time, my friend. The level of competition nowadays, the parity in the game, miles from what it was when those fellas got it done. Ok Mack and Holtmann started winning right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: Ok Mack and Holtmann started winning right away. what have they won and how has Holtman's last two years gone Chris Holtmann career record 172-116 .597% Archie Miller career record 189-101 .652% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: what have they won and how has Holtman's last two years gone Holtmans last two years have not been so good but sadly they have been better than Archie’s last two years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Cutter said: Holtmans last two years have not been so good but sadly they have been better than Archie’s last two years Not really better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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