2023 NFL Discussion

[KoB2011]

16 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Ran across this on twitter the other day. Interesting for sure. These are all NFC QB's that would be in playoffs today and what round they were drafted.

1. Jalen Hurts: 2nd round pick 2. Kirk Cousins: 4th round pick 3. Brock Purdy: last pick in the NFL draft 4. Tom Brady: 7th round pick 5. Dak Prescott: 4th round pick 6. Daniel Jones: No. 6 overall 7. Taylor Heinicke: Undrafted

Yeah, now do AFC where the Colts have to compete....

[Seeking6]

26 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah, now do AFC where the Colts have to compete....

Definitely get that for sure. Just showing both sides. 

[Boiler Sam]

36 minutes ago, btownqb said:

The complaining about DE is very nitpicky too. We aren't weak there, at all. Especially depth wise. 

And the defense as a whole is easily a top 10 unit... WITHOUT DARIUS LEONARD. 

Yes, they are OK at DE, just like they are OK at WR and OL, and OK everywhere else… bunch of nice guys and OK players - but no difference makers. 
 

Ballard has now made the playoffs 2 out of 6 seasons, and won a mediocre division 0 out of 6 times.
 

But Jimmy already handed him a 5 year extension so we’re probably stuck with him. And who else would put up with this impulsive meddling owner anyway… 

[KoB2011]

13 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Definitely get that for sure. Just showing both sides. 

Oh I know, it just seems like in the AFC to compete you need an elite talent at QB. The NFC you really don't, and then you just have to win one game if you make it through. 

[IU Scott]

3 hours ago, btownqb said:

Yeah replacing Luck surely didnt hurt his record at all. Again, he cant win the games for them. The talents been there the last two years. 

Sans the WR core last year... that Wentz threw 27TDs and 7 INTS with. 

I think where people disagree with you is that we don't think the overall roster is good compared to you thinking it is good.

[btownqb]

28 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said:

Yes, they are OK at DE, just like they are OK at WR and OL, and OK everywhere else… bunch of nice guys and OK players - but no difference makers. 
 

Ballard has now made the playoffs 2 out of 6 seasons, and won a mediocre division 0 out of 6 times.
 

But Jimmy already handed him a 5 year extension so we’re probably stuck with him. And who else would put up with this impulsive meddling owner anyway… 

So.. I agree we can upgrade at DE.. I've mentioned that. Yannick is off contract after this year.. we could take one top 5 this year. 

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, btownqb said:

The idea we just shouldn't sign Gilmore and Buckner is just so confusing. Buckner is 28 years old...

He should be a Colt for life. You don't get 6'7 300lbs DT with his ability... like ever. And some how ESPN has convinced you that DT play doesn't matter? Cmon. 

So.. Ballard signs a lockdown corner and that now that isn't good enough because we aren't good and its a stop gap? Makes no sense. 

Can we quit with the elite DE crap? There aren't many at all there, so freaking what we don't have one.. most teams don't... and since we dont have one.. we built one of the best DLs in football using depth and talent across the board. But.. I'm sure DL play somehow doesn't matter now..  We've missed 2 of the best players in football all year long, but of course those aren't at "premier positions" so.. they probably wouldn't have effected the game though. 🙄

Ballards problem is Irsay wanted to "win now" and 3 years ago. Shouldn't have signed Rivers, Shouldn't have traded Wentz. So absurdly dumb to trade him. If it was Ballards idea to trade Wentz for Matt Ryan I will for sure be fine with firing him. I think that was the owners choice, though. 

None of this since Luck has surprised me. I knew it would be a struggle.. Ballards kept us above water, now he can focus on getting a QB in the next two drafts. 

If you aren’t willing to stand up to your owner and do the right thing then don’t take the job. If he isn’t willing to tell Irsay no…I have a vision..we are going to compete our butts off but we are going to get a young qb and let him grow and compete instead of constantly trying to patch the hole then I don’t have any respect for him. Honestly all the decisions fall on him…if he is giving in to his coach or owner then I lost a lot of respect for him. Have a spine and be willing to build it your way or don’t take the job. In the end you can take all the advice into consideration but if you aren’t willing to make difficult decisions and go with your vision then just hire another yes man. I don’t get this Irsay wanted a different qb or we got the guy the coach wanted. If you didn’t see the issues and warning signs then he just isn’t the guy I thought he was. 
 

Look we just value building a roster differently. I like Buckner I do. But was I willing to trade a first rd pick when we still don’t have a qb still didn’t have a LT at that point…we could even have taken a DT in the draft and paid them rookie scale compared to his big contract and had a much much younger player for longer. No problem with Gilmore but is he going to be with us when his contract ends next year? It’s a stop gap fix. It’s fine but it isn’t helping this team long term. I get it the qb stuff is more what has killed us…we’ve had draft capital and we’ve spent it all and we still don’t have a qb…and we don’t have a dominant pass rusher and we have no long term solution at corner either….I know some teams value things differently and want to build up the middle but I want to spend my most important draft capital at qb and the edges (qb, LT, wr, CB, DE) those positions if you have advantages that is where imo winning games can become much easier. Replacement level players at DT/G/S can be found much easier and cheaper. I’d rather invest in the difficult to find and replace guys. Not saying you get rid of good players or don’t take what is available but man investing high picks and draft capital into those positions…it’s questionable to me.

[Boiler Sam]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If you aren’t willing to stand up to your owner and do the right thing then don’t take the job. If he isn’t willing to tell Irsay no…I have a vision..we are going to compete our butts off but we are going to get a young qb and let him grow and compete instead of constantly trying to patch the hole then I don’t have any respect for him. Honestly all the decisions fall on him…if he is giving in to his coach or owner then I lost a lot of respect for him. Have a spine and be willing to build it your way or don’t take the job. In the end you can take all the advice into consideration but if you aren’t willing to make difficult decisions and go with your vision then just hire another yes man. I don’t get this Irsay wanted a different qb or we got the guy the coach wanted. If you didn’t see the issues and warning signs then he just isn’t the guy I thought he was. 
 

Look we just value building a roster differently. I like Buckner I do. But was I willing to trade a first rd pick when we still don’t have a qb still didn’t have a LT at that point…we could even have taken a DT in the draft and paid them rookie scale compared to his big contract and had a much much younger player for longer. No problem with Gilmore but is he going to be with us when his contract ends next year? It’s a stop gap fix. It’s fine but it isn’t helping this team long term. I get it the qb stuff is more what has killed us…we’ve had draft capital and we’ve spent it all and we still don’t have a qb…and we don’t have a dominant pass rusher and we have no long term solution at corner either….I know some teams value things differently and want to build up the middle but I want to spend my most important draft capital at qb and the edges (qb, LT, wr, CB, DE) those positions if you have advantages that is where imo winning games can become much easier. Replacement level players at DT/G/S can be found much easier and cheaper. I’d rather invest in the difficult to find and replace guys. Not saying you get rid of good players or don’t take what is available but man investing high picks and draft capital into those positions…it’s questionable to me.

Man I couldn’t have said it better myself. 
 

How do you beat Burrow, Mahomes, Allen and Herbert in playoff games? That’s the lens every decision needs to filter thru. 

[Seeking6]

6 hours ago, btownqb said:

The idea we just shouldn't sign Gilmore and Buckner is just so confusing. Buckner is 28 years old...

He should be a Colt for life. You don't get 6'7 300lbs DT with his ability... like ever. And some how ESPN has convinced you that DT play doesn't matter? Cmon. 

So.. Ballard signs a lockdown corner and that now that isn't good enough because we aren't good and its a stop gap? Makes no sense. 

Can we quit with the elite DE crap? There aren't many at all there, so freaking what we don't have one.. most teams don't... and since we dont have one.. we built one of the best DLs in football using depth and talent across the board. But.. I'm sure DL play somehow doesn't matter now..  We've missed 2 of the best players in football all year long, but of course those aren't at "premier positions" so.. they probably wouldn't have effected the game though. 🙄

Ballards problem is Irsay wanted to "win now" and 3 years ago. Shouldn't have signed Rivers, Shouldn't have traded Wentz. So absurdly dumb to trade him. If it was Ballards idea to trade Wentz for Matt Ryan I will for sure be fine with firing him. I think that was the owners choice, though. 

None of this since Luck has surprised me. I knew it would be a struggle.. Ballards kept us above water, now he can focus on getting a QB in the next two drafts. 

Hey if you guys are thinking total rebuild I'll gladly (as a Bears fan) take Buckner off your hands. I'll go one further. I'd trade our #3 pick to Colts for Pittman and Buckner and their upcoming contracts since the Bears have the most cap space (by double) available. We get a stud DL who knows what Eberflus wants and we get Pittman in an otherwise week free agency market. 

 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

Hey if you guys are thinking total rebuild I'll gladly (as a Bears fan) take Buckner off your hands. I'll go one further. I'd trade our #3 pick to Colts for Pittman and Buckner and their upcoming contracts since the Bears have the most cap space (by double) available. We get a stud DL who knows what Eberflus wants and we get Pittman in an otherwise week free agency market. 

 

As a Colts fan I would do that trade, that gives us two top 5 picks. We get a QB and a DE with those two picks I would be happy. We also would have one of the top picks in the second round for a WR

[thirdgenhoosier]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

As a Colts fan I would do that trade, that gives us two top 5 picks. We get a QB and a DE with those two picks I would be happy. We also would have one of the top picks in the second round for a WR

Then you need to stick to basketball.

[Steubenhoosier]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

As a Colts fan I would do that trade, that gives us two top 5 picks. We get a QB and a DE with those two picks I would be happy. We also would have one of the top picks in the second round for a WR

Weren't you the guy a few pages back who mentioned that there is a large percentage of first-round drafts who bust?  You'd rather give up two known, and valuable talents for two who are only potential?

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

Then you need to stick to basketball.

This needs to be a full rebuild and getting two top 5 picks is a good way to start.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Weren't you the guy a few pages back who mentioned that there is a large percentage of first-round drafts who bust?  You'd rather give up two known, and valuable talents for two who are only potential?

Yes I would and the bust usually happen when you reach for a player and with two top 5 picks you should get the top players at those positions. Unless our GM is just dumb and pick a guy like Wilson st #2 you should be fine.

[thirdgenhoosier]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

This needs to be a full rebuild and getting two top 5 picks is a good way to start.

I disagree completely.  But even if you're correct, you don't give up an all-pro and your best WR for one top 5 pick.  That's not the way to rebuild.

[thirdgenhoosier]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Yes I would and the bust usually happen when you reach for a player and with two top 5 picks you should get the top players at those positions. Unless our GM is just dumb and pick a guy like Wilson st #2 you should be fine.

Wilson was not a reach.  All of the analysts had him as a top 5, top 10 type guy.  The reality is there are more busts with QBs taken in round 1 than there are successes.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I disagree completely.  But even if you're correct, you don't give up an all-pro and your best WR for one top 5 pick.  That's not the way to rebuild.

I think Pittman is a good WR but he is a #2 WR and he doesn't have very good speed.

[Steubenhoosier]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Yes I would and the bust usually happen when you reach for a player and with two top 5 picks you should get the top players at those positions. Unless our GM is just dumb and pick a guy like Wilson st #2 you should be fine.

You missed the word "potential", right?

[IU Scott]

Just now, Steubenhoosier said:

You missed the word "potential", right?

So what has having Pittman and Buckner on our team done to get us to the playoffs. To me Grover Stewart has been our best interior DL this past two years

[thirdgenhoosier]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I think Pittman is a good WR but he is a #2 WR and he doesn't have very good speed.

Not really the point, is it?  It doesn't matter what he is, but he is a hell of a #2.  He was taken towards the top of round two.  You traded him away to take another WR at the top of round 2 that you don't know as an NFL player.  I'll take the guy I have and then see if I can use that pick to add to my WR room or shore up another area like CB.

[thirdgenhoosier]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So what has having Pittman and Buckner on our team done to get us to the playoffs. To me Grover Stewart has been our best interior DL this past two years

Grover has been great.  But he isn't seeing the double teams that Buckner is.

[IU Scott]

Just now, thirdgenhoosier said:

Not really the point, is it?  It doesn't matter what he is, but he is a hell of a #2.  He was taken towards the top of round two.  You traded him away to take another WR at the top of round 2 that you don't know as an NFL player.  I'll take the guy I have and then see if I can use that pick to add to my WR room or shore up another area like CB.

I want to get up high enough to get one of the the top two QB's and go from there. There is no guarantee that will work but rather try with a top draft pick for QB over getting old retread QB's

[Steubenhoosier]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So what has having Pittman and Buckner on our team done to get us to the playoffs. To me Grover Stewart has been our best interior DL this past two years

First, its a team game. No one or two guys regardless, are gonna get a team into the playoffs. Second, highly doubt a rookie quarterback, with two fewer assets on the team to help, would get us very far.

[KoB2011]

38 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said:

Man I couldn’t have said it better myself. 
 

How do you beat Burrow, Mahomes, Allen and Herbert in playoff games? That’s the lens every decision needs to filter thru. 

The scary thing for the Colts is its not just those four anymore; we’ve got Lawrence coming on strong in our own division, Houston will take whichever QB they feel best about #1, plus for other Wild Card spots we are looking at having to beat out guys like Tua, Watson (think he will shake the rust off), Lamar, etc.

AFC is loaded at QB and I think it’s going to be really hard to compete without someone in that caliber. 

[thirdgenhoosier]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I want to get up high enough to get one of the the top two QB's and go from there. There is no guarantee that will work but rather try with a top draft pick for QB over getting old retread QB's

I don't disagree that the Colts need to find their QB of the future.  It's painfully obvious.  But the Jets took Wilson at 2 and it didn't work.  The Raiders took Jamarcus Russell at 1 and it didn't work out.  The Browns have taken too many QBs to count in the top 5 and none of them worked.  I, for one, don't believe that Stroud, Levis, or Young are the savior of an NFL franchise, but the Colts can likely get one or more of them at 7 and not have to give up anything.