Florida State Postgame Thread

[IUFLA]

6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

So Galloway already has scored well in games, he just didn’t last game. Are you not following games until Fla State? And Geronimo is a frosh who CAM is working in as he grows his college game. Your inclination to ignore that CAM has said he is the most talented kid he’s recruited is just odd to me.

My own view on that was CAM was saying Jordan was the most physically gifted player he'd ever coached, not speaking in a basketball talent sense.

 

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

That’s Coach speak. If he is so talented he would be on the floor. Galloway is. Heck even Armaan as a freshman last year was getting more minutes then Geronimo. I ignore Coach speak....I look at actions not words. More talented then Romeo...Trayce...it’s obvious Coach speak for potential...but he isn’t playing now so it isn’t talent.

 

Also Galloway hasn’t scored more than 5 pts since the first game against a walk over. He is 3-15 from the field since then. Hardly impressive.

Maybe you don't remember a time but I do where freshman use to sit and wait there turn.  Just because i freshman is not playing big minutes early doesn't mean they won't develop into a good player.

[NCHoosier32]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

So Galloway already has scored well in games, he just didn’t last game. Are you not following games until Fla State? And Geronimo is a frosh who CAM is working in as he grows his college game. Your inclination to ignore that CAM has said he is the most talented kid he’s recruited is just odd to me.

eh, 24 points in 5 games for Galloway and 13 of those came against Tenn Tech.  so, yes, i have been watching.  he's looked pretty good in most aspects, but he is not a scoring threat.  his 2nd highest scoring game was 5 points.  i promise i'm not ignoring what CAM said.  noy sure why you keep saying that.  i said i can certainly see him developing and have no doubt he is talented.  my point is that he isn't even playing in close games and it's hard to see him being a scorer by the start of next season.  that's all i'm saying my man.  i know i may be wrong, and i'll be happy if i am!

[NCHoosier32]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Maybe you don't remember a time but I do where freshman use to sit and wait there turn.  Just because i freshman is not playing big minutes early doesn't mean they won't develop into a good player.

of course.  and not saying Geronimo can't develop.  just saying hard to see him being a scorer by the start of next year.

[NCHoosier32]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

My own view on that was CAM was saying Jordan was the most physically gifted player he'd ever coached, not speaking in a basketball talent sense.

 

i think we can all agree with that, but that also doesn't mean he'll ever be a great basketball player.  i hope he is and certainly believe it is likely, he's not even kind of close right now.  

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Maybe you don't remember a time but I do where freshman use to sit and wait there turn.  Just because i freshman is not playing big minutes early doesn't mean they won't develop into a good player.

Omg Scott we all remember there used to be freshman squads and we all remember when players used to play 4 years....that is not even relevant to modern NCAA. Nobody is asking him to play major minutes. In fact most want Hunter to get more minutes. That said to say Geronimo is out most talented player is coach talk. If he was he would be playing instead of another freshman. No one said he won’t be a good player down the line...but to say I believe Archie really means it when he says it...no because he is paid to win games and if your most talented player is on the bench then you aren’t doing your job. It’s PR smoke. I think Jordan has a lot of potential but he is really raw. I think his upside is Anunoby...or he could end up Perea. But we don’t know yet because he isn’t even making it to the floor. 

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Omg Scott we all remember there used to be freshman squads and we all remember when players used to play 4 years....that is not even relevant to modern NCAA. Nobody is asking him to play major minutes. In fact most want Hunter to get more minutes. That said to say Geronimo is out most talented player is coach talk. If he was he would be playing instead of another freshman. No one said he won’t be a good player down the line...but to say I believe Archie really means it when he says it...no because he is paid to win games and if your most talented player is on the bench then you aren’t doing your job. It’s PR smoke. I think Jordan has a lot of potential but he is really raw. I think his upside is Anunoby...or he could end up Perea. But we don’t know yet because he isn’t even making it to the floor. 

Being most talented doesn't mean best player at this time. Even MJ didn't make his HS varsity team  until his junior year.  It just get tiresome to see everyone wanting instant gratification instead if showing some patients.  You look at all of the highly rated UK recruits this year and all of them are not contributing right away.  They have to play because there are no people ahead of them to play.

[Hoosierhoopster]

4 hours ago, IUFLA said:

My own view on that was CAM was saying Jordan was the most physically gifted player he'd ever coached, not speaking in a basketball talent sense.

 

That is not what he said. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

of course.  and not saying Geronimo can't develop.  just saying hard to see him being a scorer by the start of next year.

I guess you don’t know his hs game. Was Vic a scorer by his soph year, or OG? Also, why the start of next year? Your comment was you didn’t see how the team could be any better or Geronimo.

Honestly the way you guys double down on writing off a player’s potential, on the front end of the beginning of his frosh year, and without knowing anything about what he did in HS, just blows me away. 
 

Repeating this again. A good friend of mine is an East Coast scout. He scouted Vic at DeMatha, told me about him when we were recruiting him, told me he he was a next level player in the making averaging a double double with boards as a guard, defense first with monster upside. He also scouted Geronimo - told me he is better than Vic at the same age. That is really high praise. Geronimo has all the tools to be a good nba player. It takes development but he is already the NH POY. Your writing him off is complete unwarranted 

[NCHoosier32]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I guess you don’t know his hs game. Was Vic a scorer by his soph year, or OG? Also, why the start of next year? Your comment was you didn’t see how the team could be any better or Geronimo.

Honestly the way you guys double down on writing off a player’s potential, on the front end of the beginning of his frosh year, and without knowing anything about what he did in HS, just blows me away. 
 

Repeating this again. A good friend of mine is an East Coast scout. He scouted Vic at DeMatha, told me about him when we were recruiting him, told me he he was a next level player in the making averaging a double double with boards as a guard, defense first with monster upside. He also scouted Geronimo - told me he is better than Vic at the same age. That is really high praise. Geronimo has all the tools to be a good nba player. It takes development but he is already the NH POY. Your writing him off is complete unwarranted 

nah... you're still twisting my words.  this all started when i said it was hard to see us being better next year.  so when Geronimo came up, that was why i said it's hard to see him being a major scorer next year.  we all know the Oladipo and OG stories.  for sure they outperformed their rankings, for sure they developed big time, and they were not big scorers immediately.  i totally agree.  no, i'm not super familiar with Jordan's HS games.  no arguments there.  i'm just saying it's hard to see him as a big scorer at the start of next year.  doesn't mean he won't eventually be an NBA All-Star.  if that's what you think, maybe you're right.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

12 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

nah... you're still twisting my words.  this all started when i said it was hard to see us being better next year.  so when Geronimo came up, that was why i said it's hard to see him being a major scorer next year.  we all know the Oladipo and OG stories.  for sure they outperformed their rankings, for sure they developed big time, and they were not big scorers immediately.  i totally agree.  no, i'm not super familiar with Jordan's HS games.  no arguments there.  i'm just saying it's hard to see him as a big scorer at the start of next year.  doesn't mean he won't eventually be an NBA All-Star.  if that's what you think, maybe you're right.  

Who’s twisting words now? Nba all-star? Ok. Look man you are entitled to your opinion but I’m still not understanding how you go from it’s hard to see us being better next year and now changing what you said to hard to see Geronimo as a big scorer next year, not what you said earlier, right? Starting to seem like I’m giving you a hard time, not meaning to, but I don’t get doubling down on a negative outlook when you don’t really know the player and this season haven’t seen him play much.

The kid is good, so is Lander but CaM played him 7 min against Fla State, because, in CaM’s view, he’s not fully ready yet. They will get worked in with more experience, both have the ability and drive and skill and builds / talent to be very good.

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

That is not what he said. 

Not precisely, but I think that's what he meant... and I did say it was my interpretation...here's the full quote...

“Jordan Geronimo is super talented,” Miller said.  “He’s probably the most talented guy that I’ve recruited in a long time in terms of when you look down the road, how good could he be from a physical standpoint"

Link

 

 

[NCHoosier32]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Who’s twisting words now? Nba all-star? Ok. Look man you are entitled to your opinion but I’m still not understanding how you go from it’s hard to see us being better next year and now changing what you said to hard to see Geronimo as a big scorer next year, not what you said earlier, right? Starting to seem like I’m giving you a hard time, not meaning to, but I don’t get doubling down on a negative outlook when you don’t really know the player and this season haven’t seen him play much.

The kid is good, so is Lander but CaM played him 7 min against Fla State, because, in CaM’s view, he’s not fully ready yet. They will get worked in with more experience, both have the ability and drive and skill and builds / talent to be very good.

you compared him to Vic.  Vic is NBA all-star caliber isn't he?  i'm not understanding what i changed?  i admitted to you that i don't see us being better next year.  i never said Geronimo will never be any good.  i said it's hard to see him being a scorer by the beginning of next year in reference to one reason i don't see us being a lot better.  CAM not feeling he is ready is part of my point.  if he's not ready to even get playing time, it's definitely going to take a good amount of time for him to be playing important minutes and scoring much.  that's all i'm saying.  not sure where i'm changing or "doubling down."  Lander is a different story to me.  he still has a long way to go, but would expect him to be ready at the start of next year to show us.  he is one reason why i am hopeful that i am wrong about us being better next year.  

[IU Scott]

Just now, NCHoosier32 said:

you compared him to Vic.  Vic is NBA all-star caliber isn't he?  i'm not understanding what i changed?  i admitted to you that i don't see us being better next year.  i never said Geronimo will never be any good.  i said it's hard to see him being a scorer by the beginning of next year in reference to one reason i don't see us being a lot better.  CAM not feeling he is ready is part of my point.  if he's not ready to even get playing time, it's definitely going to take a good amount of time for him to be playing important minutes and scoring much.  that's all i'm saying.  not sure where i'm changing or "doubling down."  Lander is a different story to me.  he still has a long way to go, but would expect him to be ready at the start of next year to show us.  he is one reason why i am hopeful that i am wrong about us being better next year.  

He is not comparing him to the NBA VO but the VO his first couple of years at IU

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

you compared him to Vic.  Vic is NBA all-star caliber isn't he?  i'm not understanding what i changed?  i admitted to you that i don't see us being better next year.  i never said Geronimo will never be any good.  i said it's hard to see him being a scorer by the beginning of next year in reference to one reason i don't see us being a lot better.  CAM not feeling he is ready is part of my point.  if he's not ready to even get playing time, it's definitely going to take a good amount of time for him to be playing important minutes and scoring much.  that's all i'm saying.  not sure where i'm changing or "doubling down."  Lander is a different story to me.  he still has a long way to go, but would expect him to be ready at the start of next year to show us.  he is one reason why i am hopeful that i am wrong about us being better next year.  

 

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

He is not comparing him to the NBA VO but the VO his first couple of years at IU

Another thing is that this wasn't a typical off season for the freshman so it might be harder for the freshman to adjust to the college game.  I know it is not the same because Evans got some minutes his freshman year but this is Brian Evans  scoring for his 4 years.  It shows that people can make a good jump from freshman to sophomore years.

Freshman- 5

Sophomore- 12

Juniors- 17

Senior- 21

[Hoosierhoopster]

6 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

you compared him to Vic.  Vic is NBA all-star caliber isn't he?  i'm not understanding what i changed?  i admitted to you that i don't see us being better next year.  i never said Geronimo will never be any good.  i said it's hard to see him being a scorer by the beginning of next year in reference to one reason i don't see us being a lot better.  CAM not feeling he is ready is part of my point.  if he's not ready to even get playing time, it's definitely going to take a good amount of time for him to be playing important minutes and scoring much.  that's all i'm saying.  not sure where i'm changing or "doubling down."  Lander is a different story to me.  he still has a long way to go, but would expect him to be ready at the start of next year to show us.  he is one reason why i am hopeful that i am wrong about us being better next year.  

Come on man. I relayed the story of the scout -- who scouted him and Vic specifically and actually knows what he's talking about -- who said that AT THE SAME AGE Geronimo was better. And yes, that is extremely high praise. I also said whether he can meet his potential remains to be seen but he has all of the tools to get there. That's the point. I explained my view that we COULD be better next year because guys develop, and we have guys who are good who can really develop. What CAM is doing right now is limiting his (and Lander's) play as young frosh. If you're not doubling down on the outlook you can't see why we would be better, as you said, that's cool.

[Hoosierhoopster]

14 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Not precisely, but I think that's what he meant... and I did say it was my interpretation...here's the full quote...

“Jordan Geronimo is super talented,” Miller said.  “He’s probably the most talented guy that I’ve recruited in a long time in terms of when you look down the road, how good could he be from a physical standpoint"

Link

 

 

And "how good he could be" you ignore by emphasizing from a physical standpoint. Again, he is the NH POY. He's an extremely good player. It's not, at all, just a guy who is physical. He is a freak of nature athletic talent, and he is good. I think you're getting way down into the weeds on this one.

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

And "how good he could be" you ignore by emphasizing from a physical standpoint. Again, he is the NH POY. He's an extremely good player. It's not, at all, just a guy who is physical. He is a freak of nature athletic talent, and he is good. I think you're getting way down into the weeds on this one.

I'm not sure where you're coming from...if he was the "most talented player" as you seem to be saying, then why 2 straight DNP CD and limited time before that?

Archie looks at his physical tools and sees the potential...

[NCHoosier32]

10 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Come on man. I relayed the story of the scout -- who scouted him and Vic specifically and actually knows what he's talking about -- who said that AT THE SAME AGE Geronimo was better. And yes, that is extremely high praise. I also said whether he can meet his potential remains to be seen but he has all of the tools to get there. That's the point. I explained my view that we COULD be better next year because guys develop, and we have guys who are good who can really develop. What CAM is doing right now is limiting his (and Lander's) play as young frosh. If you're not doubling down on the outlook you can't see why we would be better, as you said, that's cool.

i feel weird being on the same side of an argument with IUFLA, so i'll stop.  i honestly don't think you understand what i'm saying.  i get what you're saying and don't really agree or disagree.  sorry that as often happens that i am skeptical and a little pessimistic.  just my opinion.  no, go argue with IUFLA.  i'm pretty sure i won't agree with what he says...

[BDB]

19 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

 

Another thing is that this wasn't a typical off season for the freshman so it might be harder for the freshman to adjust to the college game.  I know it is not the same because Evans got some minutes his freshman year but this is Brian Evans  scoring for his 4 years.  It shows that people can make a good jump from freshman to sophomore years.

Freshman- 5

Sophomore- 12

Juniors- 17

Senior- 21

Can't remember, did Brian Evans redshirt at some point?    

[milehiiu]

6 minutes ago, BDB said:

Can't remember, did Brian Evans redshirt at some point?    

Yes. For one year.

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, BDB said:

Can't remember, did Brian Evans redshirt at some point?    

No, not that I recollect...

[IUFLA]

Just now, milehiiu said:

Yes. For one year.

Was it before his freshman season?

Sports reference has him playing 92-93 thru 95-96

[milehiiu]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Was it before his freshman season?

Sports reference has him playing 92-93 thru 95-96

The 1991 season. 

[IU Scott]

17 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I'm not sure where you're coming from...if he was the "most talented player" as you seem to be saying, then why 2 straight DNP CD and limited time before that?

Archie looks at his physical tools and sees the potential...

Because he is not able to compete right now.  Also being the most talented does not mean the best player at this time.  Also if we had our normal off season and and pre season I would think he might be farther along.