Florida State Postgame Thread

[NCHoosier32]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I know I was never at this level of play but I can't understand players who doe snot want to shoot.  Nobody had to ask me twice to shoot more because if I was open the ball was going up.  to me it is hard for me to believe a player at this level has to be asked to be more aggressive on the offensive end.

well, if you're a really bad shooter, it's probably better if you don't take bad shots.

[BobSaccamanno]

49 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

He is way above .500 on games that has been decided by 7 points or less

I’m talking about winning tough games.  Hopefully he beats Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin at home and goes into Ann Arbor, Maryland, and Columbus and wins.  That would go a long way for him. That would be several tough wins, the type of wins that have been elusive for him. If he goes 2-4 or 3-3 in those 6, he will have a tough record to defend.   It’s incumbent on him to win those types of games.  He hasn’t been able to solve these type of games.  

[IU Scott]

I don't think RP is a bad shooter and has shown to be a good shooter when he steps into his shot.  I know the stat before last night is that the veterans was 38% from 3 and the freshman was 3-22 so it shows that the others were shooting well enough  If we as a team shot 38% that would put us around #50 in the country.

[IU Scott]

Just now, BobSaccamanno said:

I’m taking about winning tough games.  Hopefully he beats Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin at home and goes into Ann Arbor, Maryland, and Columbus and wins.  That would go a long way for him. That would be five tough wins, the type of wins that have been elusive fir hi. If he goes 2-4 or 3-3 in those 6, he will have a tough record to defend.   It’s incumbent on him to win those types of games.  He hasn’t been able to solve these type of games.  

Well by description of a tough game is winning the close games.  Just off the top of my head he has won 3 straight against MSU and beat Iowa last year.

[BobSaccamanno]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Well by description of a tough game is winning the close games.  Just off the top of my head he has won 3 straight against MSU and beat Iowa last year.

Please.  You’re grasping at straws.  He hasn’t won enough tough games.  That’s his record.  It’s not in dispute.  

[IU Scott]

Just now, BobSaccamanno said:

Please.  You’re grasping at straws.  He hasn’t won enough tough games.  That’s his record.  It’s not in dispute.  

Not saying he is a great coach but you said he doesn't win tough games.  The definition of tough games are games decided by 7 points or less and his record in those games are fine.  His problem is on the road and normally we get killed in those games.  Last year we had the game at UI won but some tough calls cost us that game.

[BobSaccamanno]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Not saying he is a great coach but you said he doesn't win tough games.  The definition of tough games are games decided by 7 points or less and his record in those games are fine.  His problem is on the road and normally we get killed in those games.  Last year we had the game at UI won but some tough calls cost us that game.

I’m talking about tough but beatable opponents.  I laid out specifically six games that I considered tough games.  Some home and some road.  I’m not talking about beating Eastern Michigan by 7.  

I’m not going to repeat it for the sake of brevity but I laid out 6 examples of what those games are in a post above.  This is his fourth year.  In years 4-5 it can’t be the same thing that we’ve seen for the first 3 years.  I’m not even mentioning winning road games against a top 5 team in the league.  Beatable road opponents and knock off the heavyweights at home.  Very reasonable test for IU.  If that’s not viewed as a reasonable test over a five year period, it’s a failure, experiment over.  

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I’m talking about tough but beatable opponents.  I laid out specifically six games that I considered tough games.  Some home and some road.  I’m not talking about beating Eastern Michigan by 7.  

I’m not going to repeat it for the sake of brevity but I laid out 6 examples of what those games are in a post above.  This is his fourth year.  In years 4-5 it can’t be the same thing that we’ve seen for the first 3 years.  I’m not even mentioning winning road games against a top 5 team in the league.  Beatable road opponents and knock off the heavyweights at home.  Very reasonable test for IU.  If that’s not viewed as a reasonable test over a five year period, it’s a failure, experiment over.  

Most of those 7 or less came in the big ten

[Hippopotamo]

It’d be really hard for me to support IU if Alford was the coach. His coaching record is far from stellar, and his handling of the sexual assault case when he was HC at Iowa really rubs me the wrong way. If he wasn’t an IU legend he would never be a real candidate. 

[BobSaccamanno]

20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Most of those 7 or less came in the big ten

Fine. You’re entitled to your opinion that he’s winning enough tough games.  That’s the standard for IU in your mind.  It’s not a right or wrong thing.  

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Fine. You’re entitled to your opinion that he’s winning enough tough games.  That’s the standard for IU in your mind.  It’s not a right or wrong thing.  

Never said enough but you said he doesn't win any tough games,  I also set my expectation on a yearly basis and not what happened at IU 25 years ago and to me this years team so far is looking good so far.

[IU Scott]

13 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

It’d be really hard for me to support IU if Alford was the coach. His coaching record is far from stellar, and his handling of the sexual assault case when he was HC at Iowa really rubs me the wrong way. If he wasn’t an IU legend he would never be a real candidate. 

 

Just now, IU Scott said:

 

No

[BobSaccamanno]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Never said enough but you said he doesn't win any tough games

Ok just to end this, he hasn’t won enough.  When you’ve got Arkansas and it’s tight late, we don’t win.  Repeat over and over.   No one will be happier than me if he turns that around permanently.   I like the emphasis on defense and hopefully toughness, although that’s been more bark than bite. 

[IU Scott]

I have been a long time fan and I think a lot of these fans need to stop looking at what we were 30 years ago.  Also we need to let go of the ghost of RMK and stop comparing every coach to what he accomplished.  It will take a lot for us to ever have a coach of his caliber again.  Really not many coaches out there that will ever accomplish what he did.    Maybe if we can start looking at the present and base the expectations on what we have going forward and stop looking back.  I think just like UCLA we as fans need to stop with this guy is no RMK because that can hurt the program.  UCLA has been going through coaches like candy since 1975 trying to find the next Wooden and they are still looking.  they drove away a really good coach in gene Bartow after one year because of the fan base.  They drove away a coach who went to 3 straight final fours but that wasn't good enough.  the only coach to win a championship since then was found to have b roken the rules.

[CincyHoosier]

51 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I was not a huge Crean fan but since he was our coach I was going to back him.  I kept telling people that was calling for his head and thought just a coaching change would make everything better.   Once they fired him I thought to myself this time if the coach struggles I was going to be that person who said I told you so and rip on the next coach.  I guess I am not that kind of fan because I will back Archie until he is not the coach.  Even though Archie was not on my list of replacements he is our coach and will be there backing him no matter what unless he does somehting illegal.

Illegal based of NCAA standards or illegal illegal?  Because if it's illegal per NCAA standards I couldn't care less, in fact at this point I'd encourage it. 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

Illegal based of NCAA standards or illegal illegal?  Because if it's illegal per NCAA standards I couldn't care less, in fact at this point I'd encourage it. 

If he breaks an NCAA rule then you get rid of the coach.  Also if the team has off the court issues then you fire the coach.  I guess you might be younger but us older fans still want IU to win the right way and that is by not cheating.  Boy has our fan base change when some don't mind us cheating to win and this is why I don't think this fan base is what it use to be.

[CincyHoosier]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

If he breaks an NCAA rule then you get rid of the coach.  Also if the team has off the court issues then you fire the coach.  I guess you might be younger but us older fans still want IU to win the right way and that is by not cheating.  Boy has our fan base change when some don't mind us cheating to win and this is why I don't think this fan base is what it use to be.

UNC won multiple national titles while their players attended fake classes.  Duke gave Zion's parents a mansion to live in.  The list of examples is looooongggg of semiprofessional athletes breaking the rules of a semiprofessional governing body with zero repercussions.  

[IU Scott]

I know none of us are happy with a 3-2 record but I rather have this record and the schedule we play over UM 5-0 record with this record.

Bowling Green

Ball St.

Oakland

UCF

Toledo

Well UM might win the Mac this year

[IU Scott]

Just now, CincyHoosier said:

UNC won multiple national titles while their players attended fake classes.  Duke gave Zion's parents a mansion to live in.  The list of examples is looooongggg of semiprofessional athletes breaking the rules of a semiprofessional governing body with zero repercussions.  

Couldn't care less what other school does and if that is the only way to win a championship I rather not win one.  I guess the younger generation does not have much integrity when it comes to this fan base because we use to say we beat those team while doing it the right way.  UK has cheated for years and our fans use to use that against UK but now it seems our fans want to be just like them which is a shame.

[CincyHoosier]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Couldn't care less what other school does and if that is the only way to win a championship I rather not win one.  I guess the younger generation does not have much integrity when it comes to this fan base because we use to say we beat those team while doing it the right way.  UK has cheated for years and our fans use to use that against UK but now it seems our fans want to be just like them which is a shame.

How do you define integrity when the rules by which you measure yourself are determined by a governing body you can't trust?

[BobSaccamanno]

9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know none of us are happy with a 3-2 record but I rather have this record and the schedule we play over UM 5-0 record with this record.

Bowling Green

Ball St.

Oakland

UCF

Toledo

Well UM might win the Mac this year

We will get our chance to beat them head to head.   Those will be winnable games, the types hopefully we win.  

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

How do you define integrity when the rules by which you measure yourself are determined by a governing body you can't trust?

By obeying the rules that are set in place.  Let me ask you if your best friend is a drug dealer and is making huge money are you just going to do it because your friend is doing it.  It is obvious that the police can't control the drug trade and it is pretty easy to get away with so you are saying you would sell drugs as well.

[Seeking6]

28 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know none of us are happy with a 3-2 record but I rather have this record and the schedule we play over UM 5-0 record with this record.

Bowling Green

Ball St.

Oakland

UCF

Toledo

Well UM might win the Mac this year

Be careful. You'll ruffle up the "schedule should be difficult crowd" or "will get us ready for the Big 10"......we'll have 16 games vs top 50 I'm guessing RPI from day after Christmas to March. It's impossibly brutal. I wish we could schedule a couple more layups honestly.

Shoot you think Knight scheduled his Indiana Classics and tourney in Indy for getting ready for the Big 10? Shoot it was 4 easy wins. 

[KoB2011]

5 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Right but the tough comment came before he clarified it was a mental issue, and you seem to be looking to not pick at me. Why? 

I'm not even sure what else I've disagreed with you on recently?

[dgambill]

7 hours ago, BGleas said:

I honestly don't know. I tend to think after 5 games that our guard play is not good enough to make a leap in the conference, but it is still early. 

I think Phinisee has to be better than an average, middle of the pack Big Ten point guard for this team to make a leap, but right now that is what he is. 

Franklin has shown signs. He was fantastic in the Stanford game and has shown flashes in other games, but can he elevate his game consistently as a sophomore? I'm not sure he can. 

Our guard play is a huge concern right now. The flip side is, we just lost by 2 point in OT to the #20 team on the road, so maybe our guard play isn't as far away as we are perceiving it to be?

I'll just echo what I've been saying, the season rests on Phinisee, Franklin, Thompson and Hunter. As of now, Thompson is the only one that's made a consistent improvement. 

I see improvement on the defensive end this year...I see improvement in energy. I see Race taking that next step. But Rob, Al, Armaan...I see minor to no improvement in their games. They all still shoot the ball at roughly the same efficiency. Rob is physically challenged. He can’t take that next step because physically he is limited. He will never be able to finish at the rim consistently...he is exactly what he was rated...a top 100-150 guard I would imagine. Good but we see those come in every year.
Al the same. Physically/athletically he is limited. Armaan the same. While more athletic his issues are his shot. He has never been a “good” shooter. Lots of people can shoot a good percentage in high school taking it to the rim and shooting over smaller less athletic kids. No more. His defense is legit but the kid can’t shoot.... I mean he is lucky to even draw iron on his shots. Great kid great heart but he can’t shoot. When it goes in (outside a layup) it’s an anomaly. Our guards are limited by skill set and athleticism. It isn’t going to change. We need talent! 100-150 level players aren’t going to win at this level very often. (This level being top 25 competition. Lander is just so young and athletically gifted so hopefully he can take that leap as confidence grows (if allowed). But we need 3-4 more guys of that caliber. Problem is we get 1 and then they leave before 2 and 3 ever get up to speed. We need that level at the same time.