IowaHoosierFan Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 Didn't really get to watch the game. Looked at the box score. Saw the same things everyone else sees. We continue to struggle outside TJD in the paint. Defense is looking tenacious and will keep us in most games. Need to shoot average. Just average and we win this game probably a couple more. But if we think TJD only is going to win B!G games for us then I think we're in for a long season. We need variety and the ability to adjust our offense when "going low" doesn't work. I don't think we're hard to game plan for at this point. Rob, Al, Hunter, and Franklin need to up their games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: And to be clear, I'm not asking for "stats" or "research." I'm thinking someone who has coached for 30+ years has some insight on what certain players are doing right or wrong on both sides of the ball... sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fundamentals Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 Regarding the already severly beaten “dead horse” of shooting. Remember when Kenny Johnson as recruiter focused on East Coast kids and right under Crean’s nose was Bryant McIntosh, who was an assassin from deep? Watched a bit of Clemson yesterday and off the bench, before even breaking a sweat, Alex Hemingway (Indy Elite) drilled a deep 3 from the corner. He didn’t hesitate he just drilled it. Luke Brown “wasn’t good enough” for IU. Probably because he can shoot lights out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 not that i am completely sold on Al or RP being high level B1G guards, but i am a little surprised many of you see Lander and Hunter as upgrades right now. i really hoped they would be, but it's awful hard for me to see them making us better than Al and RP right now. just my opinion, but on the other hand, it would go with my talent is important argument. in theory, Lander and Hunter are our next highest ranked recruits on the roster after TJD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: not that i am completely sold on Al or RP being high level B1G guards, but i am a little surprised many of you see Lander and Hunter as upgrades right now. i really hoped they would be, but it's awful hard for me to see them making us better than Al and RP right now. just my opinion, but on the other hand, it would go with my talent is important argument. in theory, Lander and Hunter are our next highest ranked recruits on the roster after TJD. Its kind of like the back up QB mentality - we already know what we have with RP and Al and it isn't getting the job done. Why not throw the other guys in the ocean and see if they can swim? I'm not saying its the right choice but understand the general sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, milehiiu said: "Says who ? " Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 Has there been any word to when Brunk will be back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUskim Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Has there been any word to when Brunk will be back? No. Fisch speculated until January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 51 minutes ago, BGleas said: These are coaching and style of play preferences, but I'd imagine Galloway played over Hunter because he's a more athletic perimeter defender and also maybe even more because he's better equipped to be a secondary ball handler against FSU's full court pressure. You don't really want Hunter in a position to have to break down a press. Galloway was in that position a few times and handled it fairly well. I'm not necessarily advocating for Galloway to play over Hunter, just giving what I think Archie's logic may have been in this game. IU needs to find a way to get Hunter more involved though. Probably Hunter and Durham are the only guys that shoot the 3 ball with confidence. Yes this is what I said earlier when I said I think CAM is playing Galloway more on a positional basis, that includes more of a guard/ball handling role. Hunter is being played as a forward/wing. I don't see what you see in terms of Galloway's D, though, but leaving that aside it's clear he did nothing, and I mean nothing, in that game offensively. He was a complete non-factor on the offensive end -- and just as importantly, in rebounding. Zero points. 1 Board. 1 TO. But left out there for 20 minutes? Meanwhile Hunter knocks down his shots and has 3 boards in 16 minutes in a game where we needed scoring and rebounding. That's clear. Absolutely agree the team needs to get Hunter more involved, and sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, IUskim said: No. Fisch speculated until January. Geez. Another example of understating how serious the injury was, apparently. Looking forward to getting Brunk back and the team at full strength. Brunk could have helped in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: not that i am completely sold on Al or RP being high level B1G guards, but i am a little surprised many of you see Lander and Hunter as upgrades right now. i really hoped they would be, but it's awful hard for me to see them making us better than Al and RP right now. just my opinion, but on the other hand, it would go with my talent is important argument. in theory, Lander and Hunter are our next highest ranked recruits on the roster after TJD. Hunter is not a guard, that is not the comparison. He is a forward/wing -- he is not a replacement for either Al or RP. Not sure what you're not seeing either. Who hit his shots last night? Oh, Hunter. On Lander, he's young and clearly has work to do in getting up to the speed of the college game, but on the other hand he's already demonstrated real strength defensively, he stays in front of his man, and he's even shown blocks despite his size - the kid's quickness is a major strength, his floor vision is already very apparent, but his shooting has not come along. Why Galloway gets 20 in a game where he does absolutely nothing offensively though, while you have Hunter hitting shots and getting boards, and Lander sitting on the bench, is what bothered me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Hunter is not a guard, that is not the comparison. He is a forward/wing -- he is not a replacement for either Al or RP. Not sure what you're not seeing either. Who hit his shots last night? Oh, Hunter. On Lander, he's young and clearly has work to do in getting up to the speed of the college game, but on the other hand he's already demonstrated real strength defensively, he stays in front of his man, and he's even shown blocks despite his size - the kid's quickness is a major strength, his floor vision is already very apparent, but his shooting has not come along. Why Galloway gets 20 in a game where he does absolutely nothing offensively though, while you have Hunter hitting shots and getting boards, and Lander sitting on the bench, is what bothered me. yeah, i don't know what the answer is other than TJD and Race. i guess i think RP, Al, and Armaan to start and get starter minutes, but if Lander and/or Hunter earn it in practice or game performance, great! otherwise, it would seem like they'd at least get more minutes, but right now Lander and Galloway are both tough to watch on the offensive end. i also think it's hard to say RP, Al, or Armaan are bad defensively. so i we're saying Lander and Galloway play solid D, i think that's important and great, but are they really upgrades over any of those guys? Hunter is different because we can argue he is an offensive upgrade and i was confused as to why he didn't play more last night. that said, he hasn't exactly been great. pretty good i guess. i want so badly for Lander and Hunter to progress and be good enough for starter minutes, but i don't think they are personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 48 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: not that i am completely sold on Al or RP being high level B1G guards, but i am a little surprised many of you see Lander and Hunter as upgrades right now. i really hoped they would be, but it's awful hard for me to see them making us better than Al and RP right now. just my opinion, but on the other hand, it would go with my talent is important argument. in theory, Lander and Hunter are our next highest ranked recruits on the roster after TJD. How many years has Al been given? Ditto on Rob. If Al can't drain the three regularly then pine time. Rob, although often injured, has had his shot as well with the PG position. Time to see how some other pieces work in their roles. Just my reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euroclydon Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 It's not all negative but that's what they have to focus on to get to the next step. The shooting is still subpar and they will either get better or flail through another disappointing up and down season. Last night, as it has several times over the past several years, they just got out bigged when it counted. Could not get the one or two key rebounds to win the game. When was the last time IU had 3 legit bigs that could play? This season Brunk is hurt. DDavis was always hurt. It's remarkable a power conference team with IU's history can't figure this out. You would think there would be a couple Indiana high school kids with big bodies over the past few seasons they could have brought in and turned into depth. Nope. They bring in one high quality big and he stays for maybe two seasons. There is one guy that has some possibility but he's usually in the 6'7 to 6'8 range and ends up playing out of position. Where are the rest? It has taken Race 3 years to get to this point. Why does it seem other teams have 3 to 4 that can play right now with size and bulk with 1 or 2 more getting ready for the next season and beyond waiting in the wings? Lack of recruiting enough quality size is the single biggest reason IU has not been able to jump back into national championship contention since Jeffries, Newton, and Leach played together. Zeller and Watford were the next best duo but their # 3 was Tom Pritchard. It didn't work out too well in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, IndySportsPartizan said: My understanding is that all the playing time in the world is available for Jerome, but he needs to show more on the boards and on D. Jerome should of played more last night. Thought he had his best defensive game and he made 2 threes in the first half and we were dying for someone on the perimeter to make a few shots in second half. Galloway should played less and more Jerome. First game Jerome looked good hope it continues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, rico said: How many years has Al been given? Ditto on Rob. If Al can't drain the three regularly then pine time. Rob, although often injured, has had his shot as well with the PG position. Time to see how some other pieces work in their roles. Just my reasoning. i get that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierdave Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 I like this teams fortitude and grit in comparison to previous teams but it’s year 4 of the Archie Miller era and we’re still running into the same issues (perimeter shooting and taking care of the ball). The margin for error is very slim against good competition, and we’re gonna play a lot of it this season. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I’m afraid for what this team looks like when TJD gets into foul trouble and moves onto the NBA next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 45 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Yes this is what I said earlier when I said I think CAM is playing Galloway more on a positional basis, that includes more of a guard/ball handling role. Hunter is being played as a forward/wing. I don't see what you see in terms of Galloway's D, though, but leaving that aside it's clear he did nothing, and I mean nothing, in that game offensively. He was a complete non-factor on the offensive end -- and just as importantly, in rebounding. Zero points. 1 Board. 1 TO. But left out there for 20 minutes? Meanwhile Hunter knocks down his shots and has 3 boards in 16 minutes in a game where we needed scoring and rebounding. That's clear. Absolutely agree the team needs to get Hunter more involved, and sooner rather than later. My college coach would be laying into me big time in the post-game and the next day at practice if I had gooseeggs in rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, etc. The only other thing I can think of is with Brunk out, Archie doesn't want to waste and of Hunter's fouls on the wing, so he's keeping him primarily as a forward which is actually limiting his playing time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 Is our guard play good enough to be in the top half of the Big 10? If not, how does it get better? Will it click for Lander? Will there be any significant improvement for Franklin this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Fundamentals said: Regarding the already severly beaten “dead horse” of shooting. Remember when Kenny Johnson as recruiter focused on East Coast kids and right under Crean’s nose was Bryant McIntosh, who was an assassin from deep? Watched a bit of Clemson yesterday and off the bench, before even breaking a sweat, Alex Hemingway (Indy Elite) drilled a deep 3 from the corner. He didn’t hesitate he just drilled it. Luke Brown “wasn’t good enough” for IU. Probably because he can shoot lights out. Always good to hear from you. Remember when you spent time at my house a few years back. Are you still doing work wise, what you did back then ? I think I still have your phone number. Just know if you need to ever get away again..... bedroom is still waiting. Stay safe during this pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Fundamentals said: Absolutely. And this is a sore spot with current coach. He flat refuses to make adjustments once starting lineup is set in his mind. Thinking back to a game last season when Hunter got extended time in a few games and his confidence soared. Al and Rob have had more than their opportunity to prove how they play and shoot. Neither would start for the type of team we all want to become. Bench players. Lander can’t shoot but I would take my lumps with him as he is easily the best ball handler on the team. Phinisee and Al both drove into traffic in shocking fashion in light of their game experience last night, threw up several running layups that would be better classified as wishes rather than shooting, and both make me nervous when they handle the ball against pressure. Both did a fantastic job brining the ball up against pressure last night. Franklin struggled with that, but otherwise played quite well.... except for actually putting the ball in the basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: Is our guard play good enough to be in the top half of the Big 10? If not, how does it get better? Will it click for Lander? Will there be any significant improvement for Franklin this year? I honestly don't know. I tend to think after 5 games that our guard play is not good enough to make a leap in the conference, but it is still early. I think Phinisee has to be better than an average, middle of the pack Big Ten point guard for this team to make a leap, but right now that is what he is. Franklin has shown signs. He was fantastic in the Stanford game and has shown flashes in other games, but can he elevate his game consistently as a sophomore? I'm not sure he can. Our guard play is a huge concern right now. The flip side is, we just lost by 2 point in OT to the #20 team on the road, so maybe our guard play isn't as far away as we are perceiving it to be? I'll just echo what I've been saying, the season rests on Phinisee, Franklin, Thompson and Hunter. As of now, Thompson is the only one that's made a consistent improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 12 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Interesting. Fife came to IU a killer player. He was a killer player defensively throughout - yips or not. Fact remains when Davis let him score he did. Fife is an extremely loyal guy, was the one at the front demanding Davis be the coach after RMk’s firing. Always stood strong for Knight and Davis. Personally I am skeptical he had the “yips” the entire time RMK was coaching, he was one tough kid. I'm not sure what toughness has to do with mental health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, BGleas said: Our guard play is a huge concern right now. The flip side is, we just lost by 2 point in OT to the #20 team on the road, so maybe our guard play isn't as far away as we are perceiving it to be? I don't think so. I think we're close...Both Rob and Al have had good games...But the difference between mediocre and good usually does lie with consistency... 6 minutes ago, BGleas said: I'll just echo what I've been saying, the season rests on Phinisee, Franklin, Thompson and Hunter. As of now, Thompson is the only one that's made a consistent improvement. I agree with all but Armaan...MUCH better defender this year than last, in my opinion... I think the games coming up against North Alabama, who really hasn't played anybody yet (Oakwood and Carver College...The have Troy tonight which should be a better gauge) and Butler (who's only played a pretty game Western Michigan team I've seen a couple of times) could afford CAM the option of giving Hunter and Lander more playing time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slojoe Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: Is our guard play good enough to be in the top half of the Big 10? If not, how does it get better? Will it click for Lander? Will there be any significant improvement for Franklin this year? Our defense is at the least borderline "elite" with elite being top ten in KenPom. Our offense has gotten better, but we have little reliable offense outside of TJD. At this time I don't think we will be contenders for B1G title, but we should do better than last year. Lander is the only guy on this team that could make them contenders because of his offensive potential. But CAM has not been willing to give him the keys to the car, yet. Perhaps Lander is not there, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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