Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[DC2345]

The only way that Woodson isn’t the coach is if he decides he can’t do the job and retires. I don’t see that happening but you never know. I also didn’t see things going this far off the rails but here we are. Also Fisch speaking out about he culture of the program isn’t a good look at all for Woodson because his words carry serious weight around the Indiana program.

[13th&Jackson]

1 hour ago, Parakeet Jones said:

That line about 10 new players galls me. @5fouls has broken down numerous times why that number is not the most accurate because of walk ons. The most galling thing about that statement though is that it’s likely that we are in the same boat next year with new players. Are we going to be 19 games into next season still trying to figure crap out?  

 

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

and the fact that this is the new college game anyway?  aren't most teams brand new every year for the most part?

Watched a game recently between Wright St and Youngstown St. YSU is 13-6 and third in the Horizon league. They have 12 new players this year. The other three on the roster were new last year

[DC2345]

52 minutes ago, Rantool said:

Quite frankly we had 2 assistant coaches in Fife and Matta we sent packing that both surpassed Woody in Knowledge and experience. No question about it. If you want a quick fix I say hire Bruce Pearl He knows how to win and recruit! And his players will walk through fire for him. Talk about motivation and passion Bruce has it! He may not be a perfect choice, but winning solves a lot of problems' and He wins!

The situation with Fife and Matta was a red flag. Fife govt fired however Matta left to be a HC at Butler and Woodson technically wasn’t his boss. That said Woodson didn’t listen to his suggestions because he wanted to do things “his” way. Which as a coach I get but “his” way hasn’t worked 

[KoB2011]

5 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

The only way that Woodson isn’t the coach is if he decides he can’t do the job and retires. I don’t see that happening but you never know. I also didn’t see things going this far off the rails but here we are. Also Fisch speaking out about he culture of the program isn’t a good look at all for Woodson because his words carry serious weight around the Indiana program.

I know you have some connections, but things can change. I think most would have agreed with you on this a week ago - I think this past week has been completely awful.

I don’t doubt you heard this said recently, but I think the people who have to make the decisions (boosters, Dolson, BoT, etc) are also absorbing how bad this week has been.

Worst home loss to Purdue in 90 years. Leading the country in flagrant fouls and ejections. The repeated lack of answers from Woodson as he makes repeated decisions that fly in the face of logic. Potentially the worst season since before Knight, minus Crean’s teams of baseball players.

I think if you told someone before the season, or even a month ago, that this would be our reality they’d have laughed at you. 

[John S]

Of the players I've seen getting regular minutes, here are the keepers: Malik, Ware, Mgbako and Cupps.  X and Gunn should be told to leave.  TG is OK so long as he accepts coming off the bench and getting 10 minutes or so.  Otherwise, we need to get a couple solid and experienced guards that play fundamentally sound ball and are leaders. We need a tall rebounding/defensive C/F as Ware's backup.  My confidence in the current coaching staff is low, so let's replace CMW with a coach with a proven winning program at the D1 power 5 school.  

[FWIUFan]

18 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

The only way that Woodson isn’t the coach is if he decides he can’t do the job and retires

This type of thinking galls me.  Who is in charge here CMW or IU?  

CMW was hired to replace CAM and improve iUBB.  He has failed at this point.  The program remains an embarrassment. If he has any self-respect, he should apologize, acknowledge this fact publicly and announce his solutions to the current problems. Dolson needs to monitor the rest of the season based on what transpires.  If no acceptable improvement, Dolson should give CMW the courtesy of allowing him to retire.  Otherwise, Dolson has a responsibility dare I say a duty to fire CMW and replace him with someone more competent.    

No one is "owed" anything.  

This is a business.

Perfomance is the only thing that matters.

[Hoosier987]

38 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

The only way that Woodson isn’t the coach is if he decides he can’t do the job and retires. I don’t see that happening but you never know. I also didn’t see things going this far off the rails but here we are. Also Fisch speaking out about he culture of the program isn’t a good look at all for Woodson because his words carry serious weight around the Indiana program.

This is my sentiment…but, like you, didn’t think the season would be going this far off the rails. I fully expect to get our asses handed to us against Illinois. I think it may be more probable (albeit slight) that Buckner and May have a talk with Woodson. 

[02Hoosier]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

 

Like I said last night something is going in with this team internally/culturally. There’s just no other way to explain it.

[Rev_AK]

I wanted Woodson to be a success, and there have been some flashes. But how much of being in back to back NCAA tournaments can now be placed on the shoulders of TJD and his will to carry the team as far as he could? And does back to back tournaments signal us as to how far we have actually fallen?

The hiring of Matta and Fife as consultants or whatever they were, were always red flags to me, and maybe showed that Dolson was not 100% sure on the hire. The quick exit of both coaches are also kind of telling, but I don’t think we’ll ever know the behind the scenes dynamics of what happened there- just that Woodson was probably justified to say “I’m either the head coach or not”- and that has no bearing on any of Fife’s alleged political views. 
I do not have a dislike Woodson, but do not want to pander to him, either. I see a lot of comments prefacing anything negative by saying “well, CMW know waaayyy more about basketball, but…..”

The bottom line is, the product we are seeing does not represent IU, and this coming with one of RMK’s guys at the helm. Without directly referencing politics in 2024 (wink, wink) I have to wonder if Woodson’s age may be working against him a little. I am in my fifties now and do not have the same fire about sports as I used to. Sometimes he looks tired and disengaged. The players also reflect that. Think Assembly Hall will be able to work the same magic on home games as the wheels continue to fall off and the fans become more apathetic?

Time for Woodson to go. Tournament was made, RMK was reconciled, and those are great accomplishments. But we, as fans/alumni/etc are the ones who pay for the content and have such an emotional investment, we all can see where this appears to be headed. And for God sakes, this coach has lost Don Fischer. 

[5fouls]

35 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

The situation with Fife and Matta was a red flag. Fife govt fired however Matta left to be a HC at Butler and Woodson technically wasn’t his boss. That said Woodson didn’t listen to his suggestions because he wanted to do things “his” way. Which as a coach I get but “his” way hasn’t worked 

Agree 100% on Matta.  I can see Fife rubbing someone the wrong way.  But, Woodson not letting Matta do what Matta was brought into do, was a huge red flag, and not enough people questioned it at the time.  I'm fairly certain that Matta had IU's best interest in mind during his time here.  A great resource wasted.  

  

[5fouls]

28 minutes ago, John S said:

Of the players I've seen getting regular minutes, here are the keepers: Malik, Ware, Mgbako and Cupps.  X and Gunn should be told to leave.  TG is OK so long as he accepts coming off the bench and getting 10 minutes or so.  Otherwise, we need to get a couple solid and experienced guards that play fundamentally sound ball and are leaders. We need a tall rebounding/defensive C/F as Ware's backup.  My confidence in the current coaching staff is low, so let's replace CMW with a coach with a proven winning program at the D1 power 5 school.  

Cupps has done nothing to deserve minutes over Galloway.  More than anything, that sentiment confuses me about the Indiana fanbase.  

[HoosierDPU95]

I'm wouldn't say Woodson is owed getting another year and I'm not saying he should be fired but it would be extremely tricky to fire him after just 3 years. I think Dolson would have to have the backing from the power alums and some agreement from who he would bring in before pulling the trigger. I don't see either of those things happening.

As @DC2345 said, Woodson deciding to retire is probably the only exit scenario and I would be shocked if he decided to do that.

[Hoosier987]

Just now, HoosierDPU95 said:

I'm wouldn't say Woodson is owed getting another year and I'm not saying he should be fired but it would be extremely tricky to fire him after just 3 years. I think Dolson would have to have the backing from the power alums and some agreement from who he would bring in before pulling the trigger. I don't see either of those things happening.

As @DC2345 said, Woodson deciding to retire is probably the only exit scenario and I would be shocked if he decided to do that.

Allow Woodson give his blessing to the next head coach 

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

 

This bothers me a lot.  And, I can't imagine it sits well with a lot of former players either.  Discipline and accountability appear to be missing.  I'll go back to the preseason and toss out the Taco Bell thing as well.  I thought the punishment was too soft then, and this is just an example of the kind of fallout you have with lax discipline.   

[KoB2011]

45 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

This bothers me a lot.  And, I can't imagine it sits well with a lot of former players either.  Discipline and accountability appear to be missing.  I'll go back to the preseason and toss out the Taco Bell thing as well.  I thought the punishment was too soft then, and this is just an example of the kind of fallout you have with lax discipline.   

We disagreed at the time, and I also was very defensive of X in the past. In hindsight, I think I was on the wrong side of some of those issues. 

Edited January 20 by KoB2011

[HoosierDPU95]

3 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Allow Woodson give his blessing to the next head coach 

Retiring or taking another role all require Woodson admitting he doesn't think he can do the job. That is what I don't see happening.

[Parakeet Jones]

I’m just not there…..yet.  I’m not saying I’m right and you guys are wrong. I agree with a lot of what has been said and share the same frustrations. I just can’t bring myself to say the words “fire Woodson “ …yet.  The Fischer comments are a bigger deal than I think a lot of folks realize. 
 

I do think unless things blow up to a nuclear level he gets year four, and I pray he figures things out if he does.  I think him righting the ship and reaching the point of a natural handoff in the next 1-3 years is still the ideal scenario.  I really wish we weren’t at the point of this even being a conversation. 
 

To be 100% truthful though, as I was brushing my teeth this morning reflecting on last night’s debacle. I caught mysel thinking that I wouldn’t be heartbroken if he decided to retire after this season. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Hoosier987]

1 hour ago, DC2345 said:

The situation with Fife and Matta was a red flag. Fife govt fired however Matta left to be a HC at Butler and Woodson technically wasn’t his boss. That said Woodson didn’t listen to his suggestions because he wanted to do things “his” way. Which as a coach I get but “his” way hasn’t worked 

Woodson has a very large ego and is stubborn. 

[IUProfessor]

20 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

This bothers me a lot.  And, I can't imagine it sits well with a lot of former players either.  Discipline and accountability appear to be missing.  I'll go back to the preseason and toss out the Taco Bell thing as well.  I thought the punishment was too soft then, and this is just an example of the kind of fallout you have with lax discipline.   

Agreed. Results on the court alone dictate he gets one more year, IMO, but these discipline issues make the calculus more difficult. 

That having been said, I also didn't see the 12 (?) game losing streak coming the Romeo year, or the bottom falling out the way it did down the stretch Archie's last year. It's not crazy to think something similar could occur this year, which would increase the pressure to make a change.

Last thought - while I agree Woodson is not likely to just retire on his own, I do wonder if he'd bristle at being given some ultimatums this off season, and refuse to agree. I could definitely see him being too prideful to agree to some conditions that Dolson might put forward.

Edited January 20 by IUProfessor

[Lurker]

20 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

This bothers me a lot.  And, I can't imagine it sits well with a lot of former players either.  Discipline and accountability appear to be missing.  I'll go back to the preseason and toss out the Taco Bell thing as well.  I thought the punishment was too soft then, and this is just an example of the kind of fallout you have with lax discipline.   

For what it's worth, and i know around here it's not much, but Dakich said the other day he heard the real story of what happened at Taco Bell and he said he doesn't blame MM at all so it could very well be there  was no need for any punishment.

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

For what it's worth, and i know around here it's not much, but Dakich said the other day he heard the real story of what happened at Taco Bell and he said he doesn't blame MM at all so it could very well be there  was no need for any punishment.

Fair enough.  I tend to discount most of what comes out of Dakich's mouth, but there is certainly the possibility that something offensive was said.

[Indykev]

41 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Allow Woodson give his blessing to the next head coach 

no

[FritzIam4IU]

I was holding out optimism early in the season as I saw a lot of new pieces to team and figured things would improve as the season went on. After the Purdue debacle, I have thrown in the towel for the season. I wasn't a big fan of the hire, but it was more about my concern about his recruiting ability, rather than his coaching ability. Others have mentioned, he just hasn't constructed good teams, despite the talent level.

Not sure what to think right now. I am not opposed to giving him another season, but he has got to construct a better roster and show more flexibility. I put the odds at IU removing him at 0%, so I am just assuming he will be back next season.

The dirty plays needs to stop. Woody needs to definitely put an end to that nonsense.

[Indykev]

Mike Woodson is the 3rd highest coach in college at 4.2 million a year after getting a one million dollar bump after last season. What did he do Scott Dolson to become the 3rd highest paid?

[NotIThatLives]

32 minutes ago, IUProfessor said:

Agreed. Results on the court alone dictate he gets one more year, IMO, but these discipline issues make the calculus more difficult. 

That having been said, I also didn't see the 12 (?) game losing streak coming the Romeo year, or the bottom falling out the way it did down the stretch Archie's last year. It's not crazy to think something similar could occur this year, which would increase the pressure to make a change.

Last thought - while I agree Woodson is not likely to just retire on his own, I do wonder if he'd bristle at being given some ultimatums this off season, and refuse to agree. I could definitely see him being too prideful to agree to some conditions that Dolson might put forward.

I don't know Woodson.  Being only 42 and not an IU fan until arriving in Bloomington I can't speak to his pride.  

Honestly, he seems pretty honest.  I can literally see him getting up to the podium, announcing that he's retiring and handing the reigns to these young bucks.  That the program and fans deserve more energy than he is capable of offering.  That he will be the biggest supporter of the program and players and if they need anything, he will be there.  

It's not like he isn't/hasn't made like 18 million off this endeavor.  He wasn't going to make more than a million a year in any capacity going forward.  Save face and go out loved.