Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[HoosierDom]

2 hours ago, bluegrassIU said:

The whole Dusty May thing drives me nuts. If he didn't attend IU we would he insulted by anybody suggesting he should be the coach at IU.

He has a decent overall record, with ONE high level result. One!!!

But he is somehow the future?

Maybe he will become great. But he has no track record to speak of. One good season. 

Furthermore, look where he eas in his 3rd season at FAU. He was no better year three than Woodson is now at IU. 

I just don't get it.  

They were a last second shot away from losing to a highly mediocre Memphis team in the first round. That shot goes the other way and I don't think I've ever heard of this guy. From there, they beat a bad FDU team and okay Tennessee and K-St. teams. That's a VERY easy road to the Final 4. I don't have an opinion as to whether he is a good coach, but he has a lot more to show before he should get a power conference job. Even more before we should look at him.

[Indykev]

8 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Well he had an assistant arrested in the FBI investigation of college basketball 

all legal now. pay to play.

[Danomatic]

Sorry guys, but Woody isn’t going anywhere… or at least not after this season. As painful as it’s been to watch, the math doesn’t add up. The perception is awful, especially after the past two weeks. That being said, Woodson will have the opportunity to bring in enough talent over the next two seasons to see what he can get done. The absolute only way I see them giving him his papers before his fifth year is if they fall flat next season with Liam, potentially DQ and others that we don’t know about yet. 
 

I will say that I, along with many of you saw this year being a down year, primarily due to the guard play. X has shown absolutely zero leadership capabilities since his arrival. Couple that with the fact that he was coming off of a critical injury and these are the results. You can’t tell me that banking a scholarship, especially in this day and age, was better than taking a chance on another guard. I think that the staff failed the team by not filling that scholarship before the season even started. TG and Cupps clearly don’t cover the void, and that isn’t their fault. 
 

I'll always bleed cream and crimson, but I’m becoming numb to this team. I used to schedule my days around games and made sure that I was watching somewhere. Nowadays, I’m fine if I miss a game or two and I really hate that I feel that way. I look forward to better days, but also feel as if we’ve all been living in the movie Groundhog Day for the past 2.5 decades.

[IndyResident16]

5 hours ago, Indykev said:

all legal now. pay to play.

It wasn’t pay for play. Chuck Person accepted money in the form of a bribe to try and steer current Auburn players towards a certain sports agency once their eligibility was up. Doesn’t implicate Pearl at all. 

[KoB2011]

10 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

It wasn’t pay for play. Chuck Person accepted money in the form of a bribe to try and steer current Auburn players towards a certain sports agency once their eligibility was up. Doesn’t implicate Pearl at all. 

And the incident at Tennessee was hosting Aaron Craft at his home for a barbecue when he a recruit. Craft told OSU and OSU turned it in. Pearl lied to the NCAA so they hit him with a show cause. 

[DC2345]

The only players that you can truly say have gotten better under Woodson have been bigs. Ware is just playing harder. He's always been talented and Woodson plays him while Altman didn't. Reneau has gotten better however I believe a lot of that has to do with him getting in better physical shape and a higher usage rate. As for TJD sure he got better at handling the ball and passing out of double teams. A lot of that is just a coach putting you in a position to do those things. 

[KoB2011]

9 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

The only players that you can truly say have gotten better under Woodson have been bigs. Ware is just playing harder. He's always been talented and Woodson plays him while Altman didn't. Reneau has gotten better however I believe a lot of that has to do with him getting in better physical shape and a higher usage rate. As for TJD sure he got better at handling the ball and passing out of double teams. A lot of that is just a coach putting you in a position to do those things. 

Agree with this. Player development is a mix of player and coach no matter who the coach is. The coach can tell the players what to work on and put them in the best position to succeed, the player has to do the work.

Our bigs have mostly grown and succeeded under Woodson, our guards and wings mostly haven’t. I personally think those two statements are related…

[13th&Jackson]

15 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

The only players that you can truly say have gotten better under Woodson have been bigs. Ware is just playing harder. He's always been talented and Woodson plays him while Altman didn't. Reneau has gotten better however I believe a lot of that has to do with him getting in better physical shape and a higher usage rate. As for TJD sure he got better at handling the ball and passing out of double teams. A lot of that is just a coach putting you in a position to do those things. 

Agree. I think CMW's specialty is as an assistant coach developing bigs. Nothing wrong with that in the right situation, but we can't recruit or develop guards, which is key to winning CBB. 

Ware has been an extremely consistent player for Indiana this season, currently averaging 14.2 points, 9.4 rebound and 1.6 blocks per game.

The 7-foot center has seven double-doubles this season.

“Well, it’s the second effort. When we first got him, that didn’t even exist in terms of him making second and third efforts to try to go get the basketball. A lot of it was he just hadn’t been taught and pushed to do it. I mean, it’s like night and day from the time we got him to where he is today in terms of going hard and understanding that you just can’t take possessions off,” Indiana basketball head coach Mike Woodson said earlier this week. “From where he was, man, he’s come a long way, and it’s kind of nice to see because a lot of people just didn’t expect that because he hadn’t played.

“I just think there’s a lot of room for growth. He’s a young, talented 7-footer that does a lot of good things for you.”

https://hoosierillustrated.com/indiana-basketball-head-coach-mike-woodson-provides-injury-update-on-kelel-ware/

[tdhoosier]

21 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

As for TJD sure he got better at handling the ball and passing out of double teams. A lot of that is just a coach putting you in a position to do those things. 

I've done my fair share of criticizing Woody lately, but I need to give credit when credit is due. Trayce has gone out of his way to credit Woody in his preparation for the league. There's been the quote I pasted below and others that I'm not going to take the time to look for. I think it goes a bit beyond just putting him in the right place. I think it's more about teaching him to recognize situations as they happen. It's not about being in a position to block shots, it's evaluating the defense and getting into the position to block a shot. It's knowing how to use the PnR - the timing of the cut to create a little more space. All these things that rookies are learning in their first year, TJD knows. It's why the vets on the team trust him and it's why he's earning playing time. 

"Coach Woodson did a great job and prepared me in the two years that he had me," Jackson-Davis said. "Just basically the style of offense that we ran, defensive coverages all translated over. So it's a huge thanks to him and the Indiana family." 

[ledies22]

it kinda crazy going through this thread. There are people that dont give Woodson a single iota of credit for absolutely anything. 

[Maedhros]

On 1/20/2024 at 3:28 PM, IU Scott said:

I can't believe I can say this and know I will get ridiculed for this but I wish Matt Painter was our coach. I know all about his recent problems in the tournament but I still take his seasons over what we have done. I rather enjoy 4 months of great basketball and be disappointed because of one game.

It is ironic how people's futures can be changed by one decision. We all have heard how Painter and his family were IU fans and Matt Wanted to go to IU. Instead Todd Leary got the last scholarship and Matt went to Purdue. I wonder if he went to IU how his post playing days would have gone. By going to Purdue it allowed him to be hired by Bruce Weber at S. Illinois and replaced him as HC. 

With the same results he had at Purdue, Painter gets fired from Indiana before he ever has a chance to lose to North Texas, St Peter's, or FDU.

After nine years, Painter had peaked with one great roster - the baby boilers - then fallen way off when those guys had left. By '14, Purdue finished under .500 for the second year in a row, and was dead last in the Big Ten despite having 5 RSCI Top 100 guys on the roster. Anyone seriously considering firing Woodson after this season is howling for Painter's job at that point.

We fired Crean for less. In his nine years, Crean started with no players, built the number 1 team in the country, won the Big Ten with two different rosters, and made three Sweet Sixteens; all better than Painter. Yet posters on here still say we held on to him too long. 

Mike Woodson had us in the tournament two straight years after five misses. Last year's four seed was the highest we'd been since the Cody Zeller teams, and before that you'd have to go back to Calbert Cheaney to find a team seeded better. We placed two guys in the NBA, neither of whom were projected to be drafted at the start of the season. But now we had a bad season, so it's time for Woodson to be fired. This constant hot seat is exhausting.

I don't disagree things need to get better. Dolson needs to have that conversation, and if he doesn't like what he hears, I won't protest if he decides a change is needed. But let that process play out. I'm so very tired of turning on coaches the very first time they fail. Since I arrived on campus for Mike Davis' first full season, I can count on one hand the years in which this fan base didn't want their coach fired.

[ledies22]

2 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

With the same results he had at Purdue, Painter gets fired from Indiana before he ever has a chance to lose to North Texas, St Peter's, or FDU.

After nine years, Painter had peaked with one great roster - the baby boilers - then fallen way off when those guys had left. By '14, Purdue finished under .500 for the second year in a row, and was dead last in the Big Ten despite having 5 RSCI Top 100 guys on the roster. Anyone seriously considering firing Woodson after this season is howling for Painter's job at that point.

We fired Crean for less. In his nine years, Crean started with no players, built the number 1 team in the country, won the Big Ten with two different rosters, and made three Sweet Sixteens; all better than Painter. Yet posters on here still say we held on to him too long. 

Mike Woodson had us in the tournament two straight years after five misses. Last year's four seed was the highest we'd been since the Cody Zeller teams, and before that you'd have to go back to Calbert Cheaney to find a team seeded better. We placed two guys in the NBA, neither of whom were projected to be drafted at the start of the season. But now we had a bad season, so it's time for Woodson to be fired. This constant hot seat is exhausting.

I don't disagree things need to get better. Dolson needs to have that conversation, and if he doesn't like what he hears, I won't protest if he decides a change is needed. But let that process play out. I'm so very tired of turning on coaches the very first time they fail. Since I arrived on campus for Mike Davis' first full season, I can count on one hand the years in which this fan base didn't want their coach fired.

This is the thing. IU will never have a long standing tenured head coach, because of this. We are so ready to cut bait at the first sign of trouble. No matter who the next coach is. He will have a down year or two and we are already on to the next one. 

[HoosierDPU95]

Other's have touched on it some but for me the biggest problem with IU basketball is the culture (or lack of it). Folks have made statement about UNC, Duke, etc. going through coaching changes and continuing on with success. Big difference is one, those schools didn't fire the previous coach and two, the successors were able to continue the existing culture. Yes UNC fired Matt Daugherty but he was still trying to maintain the established culture as did his replacement. Yes each coach puts their own stamp on a culture but at the core, these programs haven't shifted there.

Establishing a culture (a strong, competitive, healthy one) takes time.  I look at it this way:

• IU had an established strong, competitive, winning, culture built and maintained over decades.. Let's call this "culture A"
• RMK is fired
• Mike Davis takes over and tries to maintain culture A but was not a good enough coach to succeed and is fired
• Sampson is hired and intentionally (according to many accounts) blows up the culture to establish a "new IU" let's call this "culture B"
• yadda yadda Sampson is fired.. at this point, culture A no longe exists in the program and culture B is completely flushed
• CTC is hired to rebuild IU but he wasn't part of culture A so he works to establish yet another culture..culture C.
• Given the most time in the job since RMK, I would say he was able to establish a strong, healthy culture but other factors ultimately lead to his firing.
• Enter CAM and culture D, the job is too big for him and he is fired.
• Woodson is hired... the program is now so far removed from "culture A" and the landscape has changed so much that he is trying to establish yet another culture (culture E) even though he was part of culture A.

The biggest concern for me is that at this stage in his career and with the lack of the "next coach in waiting" on his staff, I don't see that he has time to establish that culture and we will be looking at yet another culture reset when his time ends.

Do I think Woodson should be fired after this season? No. Do I think Fife was the answer to the coach in waiting? No (I think Dolson tried to force that and was a bad idea in hindsight). Would I like to see Woodson make changes to his staff? Yes

Apologies for the long post

[KoB2011]

57 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I've done my fair share of criticizing Woody lately, but I need to give credit when credit is due. Trayce has gone out of his way to credit Woody in his preparation for the league. There's been the quote I pasted below and others that I'm not going to take the time to look for. I think it goes a bit beyond just putting him in the right place. I think it's more about teaching him to recognize situations as they happen. It's not about being in a position to block shots, it's evaluating the defense and getting into the position to block a shot. It's knowing how to use the PnR - the timing of the cut to create a little more space. All these things that rookies are learning in their first year, TJD knows. It's why the vets on the team trust him and it's why he's earning playing time. 

"Coach Woodson did a great job and prepared me in the two years that he had me," Jackson-Davis said. "Just basically the style of offense that we ran, defensive coverages all translated over. So it's a huge thanks to him and the Indiana family." 

I think it’s okay to accept statements of former players at face value. If TJD credits Woody then Woody should get credit. I don’t think you need to look beyond the statements of two former players now playing pro ball to see Woodson is good at developing bigs and not good with wings/guards. 

[IndyResident16]

12 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

Other's have touched on it some but for me the biggest problem with IU basketball is the culture (or lack of it). Folks have made statement about UNC, Duke, etc. going through coaching changes and continuing on with success. Big difference is one, those schools didn't fire the previous coach and two, the successors were able to continue the existing culture. Yes UNC fired Matt Daugherty but he was still trying to maintain the established culture as did his replacement. Yes each coach puts their own stamp on a culture but at the core, these programs haven't shifted there.

Establishing a culture (a strong, competitive, healthy one) takes time.  I look at it this way:

• IU had an established strong, competitive, winning, culture built and maintained over decades.. Let's call this "culture A"
• RMK is fired
• Mike Davis takes over and tries to maintain culture A but was not a good enough coach to succeed and is fired
• Sampson is hired and intentionally (according to many accounts) blows up the culture to establish a "new IU" let's call this "culture B"
• yadda yadda Sampson is fired.. at this point, culture A no longe exists in the program and culture B is completely flushed
• CTC is hired to rebuild IU but he wasn't part of culture A so he works to establish yet another culture..culture C.
• Given the most time in the job since RMK, I would say he was able to establish a strong, healthy culture but other factors ultimately lead to his firing.
• Enter CAM and culture D, the job is too big for him and he is fired.
• Woodson is hired... the program is now so far removed from "culture A" and the landscape has changed so much that he is trying to establish yet another culture (culture E) even though he was part of culture A.

The biggest concern for me is that at this stage in his career and with the lack of the "next coach in waiting" on his staff, I don't see that he has time to establish that culture and we will be looking at yet another culture reset when his time ends.

Do I think Woodson should be fired after this season? No. Do I think Fife was the answer to the coach in waiting? No (I think Dolson tried to force that and was a bad idea in hindsight). Would I like to see Woodson make changes to his staff? Yes

Apologies for the long post

It's starts at the top with administrative leadership. Duke, Kentucky, Carolina, etc don't have incompetent athletic directors. Sure not every hire is a home run and there have been instances where it simply doesn't work out, see Matt Doherty or Bill Gillespie, but it doesn't become a 20+ year problem to fix. When you continue to hire guys to leadership and decision making roles (Glass and Dolson) who don't know what they're doing, it further compounds the problem. 

Edited January 22 by IndyResident16

[13th&Jackson]

51 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

This is the thing. IU will never have a long standing tenured head coach, because of this. We are so ready to cut bait at the first sign of trouble. No matter who the next coach is. He will have a down year or two and we are already on to the next one. 

There is some truth to this for fans (IU isn't alone in this), but IU has actually been very patient. Probably much more so than other programs with its history. Davis had 6 years, Crean 9 years and Miller 4 years. Sampson would have been here a long time, going by only on-court success. 

Edited January 22 by 13th&Jackson

[DC2345]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I've done my fair share of criticizing Woody lately, but I need to give credit when credit is due. Trayce has gone out of his way to credit Woody in his preparation for the league. There's been the quote I pasted below and others that I'm not going to take the time to look for. I think it goes a bit beyond just putting him in the right place. I think it's more about teaching him to recognize situations as they happen. It's not about being in a position to block shots, it's evaluating the defense and getting into the position to block a shot. It's knowing how to use the PnR - the timing of the cut to create a little more space. All these things that rookies are learning in their first year, TJD knows. It's why the vets on the team trust him and it's why he's earning playing time. 

"Coach Woodson did a great job and prepared me in the two years that he had me," Jackson-Davis said. "Just basically the style of offense that we ran, defensive coverages all translated over. So it's a huge thanks to him and the Indiana family." 

All that he's saying is that Woodson put him in pick and rolls. That's the only part of the offense that is NBA centric. He also does have some aspects of his defense that does translate to the NBA but it doesn't work in college as we can see by the on court production. Constant ball watching and overhelping doesn't work in college. 

[5fouls]

A lot of blame being tossed directed towards the athletic department.  I would venture to say that most of us have no earthly clue as to what it takes to be a strong AD.

Hire Bob Knight.  You're brilliant?

Hire Archie Miller.  You're clueless?

It's not that simple.  And, there is more than one athletic program at the university to judge an AD by.

 

 

[Steubenhoosier]

21 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

Other's have touched on it some but for me the biggest problem with IU basketball is the culture (or lack of it). Folks have made statement about UNC, Duke, etc. going through coaching changes and continuing on with success. Big difference is one, those schools didn't fire the previous coach and two, the successors were able to continue the existing culture. Yes UNC fired Matt Daugherty but he was still trying to maintain the established culture as did his replacement. Yes each coach puts their own stamp on a culture but at the core, these programs haven't shifted there.

Establishing a culture (a strong, competitive, healthy one) takes time.  I look at it this way:

• IU had an established strong, competitive, winning, culture built and maintained over decades.. Let's call this "culture A"
• RMK is fired
• Mike Davis takes over and tries to maintain culture A but was not a good enough coach to succeed and is fired
• Sampson is hired and intentionally (according to many accounts) blows up the culture to establish a "new IU" let's call this "culture B"
• yadda yadda Sampson is fired.. at this point, culture A no longe exists in the program and culture B is completely flushed
• CTC is hired to rebuild IU but he wasn't part of culture A so he works to establish yet another culture..culture C.
• Given the most time in the job since RMK, I would say he was able to establish a strong, healthy culture but other factors ultimately lead to his firing.
• Enter CAM and culture D, the job is too big for him and he is fired.
• Woodson is hired... the program is now so far removed from "culture A" and the landscape has changed so much that he is trying to establish yet another culture (culture E) even though he was part of culture A.

The biggest concern for me is that at this stage in his career and with the lack of the "next coach in waiting" on his staff, I don't see that he has time to establish that culture and we will be looking at yet another culture reset when his time ends.

Do I think Woodson should be fired after this season? No. Do I think Fife was the answer to the coach in waiting? No (I think Dolson tried to force that and was a bad idea in hindsight). Would I like to see Woodson make changes to his staff? Yes

Apologies for the long post

Agree with some/most of this.

Crean's tenure was marred with problems with kids from "The Movement."  He had others as well who created problems. I would not characterize his culture as "healthy' without somehow fitting in the concept that it was tainted.

 

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, ledies22 said:

This is the thing. IU will never have a long standing tenured head coach, because of this. We are so ready to cut bait at the first sign of trouble. No matter who the next coach is. He will have a down year or two and we are already on to the next one. 

I could be wrong and i usually am.  From my point of view, and its not very high level, here are some factors.

1.  We haven't been "good" consistently for along time.  And that wears in a fandom that has so much history and pride in its basketball.

2.  IU fans expect more than average success consistently, we still believe we're in the same arena as Duke, UNC, KY, Kansas etc.. Even with the last 20+ years to prove we are not.

3. The "average" IU fan isn't stupid and has a basic understanding of college basketball and can see "basic" concepts of basketball and if it doesn't smell right, they understand it (This could be argued).  But when announces and sports writers start parroting the same thing fans are saying on boards, social media and at the water cooler, something is up.

4.  The Coach Woodson hire wasn't an overwhelming hire to most.  The Average fan didn't see this coming and wasn't excited when it happened.  Say what you want, he wasn't on most fans lists.

5.  With the "average" fan knowing "basketball" the last 2.5 years have looked and smelled very similar to the previous 4 and to a lesser extent, the previous 2 or 3 before that.  Which makes it feel like 6-8 years of the same thing.  Now this isn't fair to Coach Woodson and even I know things are better, and i don't know anything about anything. But it doesn't change the lens from which everyone is looking

6.   Coach Woodson received a million dollar bonus to pay last year only to have this year falling off the rails.  It could turn around and we could make a 10 game win streak run and win the B1G ten tourney but that seems likely.

7.  Not being able to shoot the ball outside of 7 feet.  Feel like every other team in college basketball can shoot the ball.  Yet every shooter we bring suddenly couldn't hit water if they were in a boat in the middle of the pacific ocean.

8.  Fundamentals and passion.  This is easy to watch and see.  Coach Creams first 3 years were a disaster and everyone knows it,  But they played hard and did their absolute best to win.  Lots of talk around this team not hustling or doing fundamental things.

I am not advocating for firing him.  I might advocate they take that 1million dollar raise back if this year continues.  But something has to change.  This brand of basketball is not at all fun to watch, root for, or talk about with other basketball fans. I can't say what this team does good.  I can make a long list of what everyone thinks they do bad, but can't come up with anything we do good consistently.  Like man, we turned the ball over 20 times last game, but did you see how we....

My passion for IU basketball dies a bit more each year since Cody and Vic left.   Just not enough to be passionate about.  Seems like offseason is way more passionate than the actual season these days.

Just some thoughts.  Hope we beat Illinois on Saturday and that starts our run to a salvaged season.  GO Hoosiers

Sorry for the Long post.

Edited January 22 by IowaHoosierFan

[IndyResident16]

16 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

A lot of blame being tossed directed towards the athletic department.  I would venture to say that most of us have no earthly clue as to what it takes to be a strong AD.

Hire Bob Knight.  You're brilliant?

Hire Archie Miller.  You're clueless?

It's not that simple.  And, there is more than one athletic program at the university to judge an AD by.

 

 

When you're 20+ years and 5 failed coaches in, where else do you start to lay blame? The athletic department has neglected the most important revenue generating sport for seemingly ever. Yeah, I'd say the athletic department deserves more than their fair share of the blame. 

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, ledies22 said:

This is the thing. IU will never have a long standing tenured head coach, because of this. We are so ready to cut bait at the first sign of trouble. No matter who the next coach is. He will have a down year or two and we are already on to the next one. 

I can't stand Greg Doyle but he was on a local radio show this morning. Talking about IU and he said our fan base is way to impatient when it comes to coaches. That is pretty much the view of the national media as well. I hear people say we have been patient but I totally disagree with that sentiment. The administration might be patient but our fan base starts turning on the coach after his first had loss or really any loss.

Edited January 22 by IU Scott

[5fouls]

I'm going to say it and I'm sure I'll get beat up for it.  I know a lot of you disagree with me, and that's okay, but I'm right about this, and you're wrong.

Indiana needs to get back to having a roster that is 50%-60% Indiana kids, with another 20%-30% coming from our border states. 

We've gotten so far away from that, it seems playing/winning at Assembly Hall means more to the opposing team than it does Indiana.

Setting aside Purdue for a moment, just look at other Big Ten schools, and their rosters are dotted with Indiana players that would help IU be a better team. 

Perkins at Iowa, Goode at Illinois, Barnhizer at Northwestern, Essegian at Wisconsin, Booker from MSU, etc.  None of them are flashy 5 stars, but they are good enough to be major contributors on conference teams that are beating us. 

You don't need all 4 of them, but even if you have only 2 of them, it's a better team.  Caleb Furst would be our first Big off the bench and he's getting minimal time off the bench for Purdue.

We're trying to be Kansas, Duke, and Arizona.  We're not.  We should be trying to be like Purdue, Wisconsin, and even Michigan State. 

Build the foundation of the program from what's in your backyard, and then add the pieces from outside (like Edey) that put you over the top.  

Edited January 22 by 5fouls

[5fouls]

14 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

When you're 20+ years and 5 failed coaches in, where else do you start to lay blame? The athletic department has neglected the most important revenue generating sport for seemingly ever. Yeah, I'd say the athletic department deserves more than their fair share of the blame. 

What happened 20 years ago occurred under a different administration than the one today.

[IowaHoosierFan]

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm going to say it and I'm sure I'll get beat up for it.  I know a lot of you disagree with me, and that's okay, but I'm right about this, and you're wrong.

Indiana needs to get back to having a roster that is 50%-60% Indiana kids, with another 20%-30% coming from our border states. 

We've gotten so far away from that, it seems playing/winning at Assembly Hall means more to the opposing team than it does Indiana.

Setting aside Purdue for a moment, just look at other Big Ten schools, and their rosters are dotted with Indiana players that would help IU be a better team. 

Perkins at Iowa, Goode at Illinois, Barnhizer at Northwestern, Essegian at Wisconsin, etc.  None of them are flashy 5 stars, but they are good enough to be major contributors on conference teams that are beating us. 

You don't need all 4 of them, but even if you have only 2 of them, it's a better team.  Caleb Furst would be our first Big off the bench and he's getting minimal time off the bench for Purdue.

We're trying to be Kansas, Duke, and Arizona.  We're not.  We should be trying to be like Purdue, Wisconsin, and even Michigan State. 

Build the foundation of the program from what's in your backyard, and then add the pieces from outside (like Edey) that put you over the top.  

 My question.  Do Indiana kids want to play for Indiana anymore?  Could be a culture thing.  All of those schools you mentioned have been winning in the last 15 years and we have not.  

While i agree we need more instate kids, can we get them?