Boiler Sam Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 15 hours ago, KoB2011 said: There have been a lot of complaints about our defense, rightfully so. Even last year with a veteran group that was almost all in their second year in the system, and a lot of guys now playing pro ball it barely cracked the top 50. This is what Woodson said on his radio show: I’d love for someone to defend the scheme in light of this quote. I’m not even debating how well it might work if it was run exactly how he intends, but if it’s so hard to execute properly it’s a scheme issue. He admits it’s hard to execute for this group but he hasn’t adjusted it. Things like this, and the guard issues are just massive misses that can’t be put on anyone other than the staff. The seeming lack of accountability or willingness to change is what leads me to thinking we need to move on. I desperately want to see some ownership from the staff and adjustments. There have been similar debates regarding Purdue’s FB staff. The pro-Walters folks say the players need 2 years in the offensive and defensive schemes to really excel. The counter-argument is that in the portal era, you need schemes that first year players can easily grasp and execute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 16 hours ago, KoB2011 said: There’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to reel off a healthy number of wins and make noise down the stretch. I just have zero confidence that will happen. Woody's working on it. just needs to get us over the hump. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 On 1/22/2024 at 11:23 AM, IU Scott said: I can't stand Greg Doyle but he was on a local radio show this morning. Talking about IU and he said our fan base is way to impatient when it comes to coaches. That is pretty much the view of the national media as well. I hear people say we have been patient but I totally disagree with that sentiment. The administration might be patient but our fan base starts turning on the coach after his first had loss or really any loss. its not the losses, its how they happen and everything else happening on and off the court. Reminds me of the Sampson team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 13 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said: There have been similar debates regarding Purdue’s FB staff. The pro-Walters folks say the players need 2 years in the offensive and defensive schemes to really excel. The counter-argument is that in the portal era, you need schemes that first year players can easily grasp and execute. no one gives a shit about purdue. 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedom Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 26 minutes ago, Indykev said: Woody's working on it. just needs to get us over the hump. Some talented shirt creator needs to develop some IU swag that depicts this infamous “hump” we have been trying to get over for several years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 29 minutes ago, Threedom said: Some talented shirt creator needs to develop some IU swag that depicts this infamous “hump” we have been trying to get over for several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Indykev said: Woody's working on it. just needs to get us over the hump. 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, MoyeCowbell said: I think the big nuance that many outside observers fail to recognize is the way things get communicated and the way those communications get received. There are brilliant people that understand concepts and are able to implement them themselves (players that can play at an elite level) but are unable to transfer that knowledge to others in a constructive way. Style, fit, personality... so much goes into that connection between coach and player. It's why some coach/player relationships 'click' while others don't. It doesn't necessarily mean one coach is better than the other (of course, there are many other factors that DO play into this comparison), but it can suggest why some concepts stick, while others don't. I believe it was last year, but when IU was playing OSU, Jimmy Jackson was on the call and he was talking about RMK. Said that he was being recruited to IU, but he had no desire to come to Bloomington because of Knight's style and personality. Jackson was a damn-fine player, but he knew that he wouldn't vibe with Coach's approach. Now, all that to say: it's not an exact science to know how those relationships will work out. They do take time. What can be projected in the recruiting stage doesn't always play out in the playing stage. And yet, CMW does need to figure out how to adjust his messaging, so that his players understand. He is the constant -- regardless how long they're at IU, the players are fluid and he needs to adapt. Really a great post. I've found so many times in coaching athletes of all ages, it's not always what you instruct, it's how you instruct it. You need to be flexible in how you explain things. It can be something as simple as a visual vs. auditory explanation. Or just trusting another coach to give the instruction in his or her's own words. When getting across the same point, certain queues/vocabulary can be different, but more meaningful to an athlete. Even more challenging, every athlete has their own distinct way of how they grasp instruction and queues. In a group setting it can feel like you, metaphorically, need to be multi-lingual. The best coaches I know are very adaptable and clear with their communication. They are usually the ones doing more with less. And when they have more: watch out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 19 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike. What day is it Mike? 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier4Life53 Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 13 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike. What day is it Mike? I guess he deserves that…Saturday at Illinois is hump day! 🥹 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 19 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike. What day is it Mike? haha idk how i missed this. pure gold. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 (edited) 20 minutes ago, ledies22 said: haha idk how i missed this. pure gold. Edited January 23 by 13th&Jackson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronkonagurski Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Threedom said: Some talented shirt creator needs to develop some IU swag that depicts this infamous “hump” we have been trying to get over for several years. maybe Woodson literally pushing the players in a wheel barrow or something like that over it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 15 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: maybe Woodson literally pushing the players in a wheel barrow or something like that over it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketball Junkie Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 11 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said: We don’t have any scholly players from Indiana who were recruited out of HS by this coaching staff. CJ, Leal & Gallo were all CAM recruits. Sparks was a transfer who dreamed of playing for IU. Understood. The discussion was about future recruits. The 25 class mainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketball Junkie Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 (edited) 10 hours ago, Maedhros said: I don't know the context around this discussion, but Woodson has shown to be picky in his recruiting, almost to a fault. Without knowing more, I'd surmise our top targets like Haralson, Sisley and Mullins are hearing from Woodson, and plenty more in-state guys who *want* to be recruited by Indiana probably aren't. Woodson got a lot of criticism for not efforting enough with Xavier Booker. Given what Booker has shown this season - or not shown - Woodson's disinterest is looking more intentional than lazy. The guy was saying he knows of 3 families not happy with how Woodson is going about things. 2 of which he says should be slam dunks for IU. The only one specifically named was Sisley and the guy says Michigan St is the team to watch with him. Edited January 24 by Basketball Junkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 8 minutes ago, Basketball Junkie said: Understood. The discussion was about future recruits. The 25 class mainly. I know. Just saying the track record raises questions about the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 I think I've figured out what Woodson is doing. This is just my best guess but I could see him waiting to watch some of the 2025 guys in either the IHSAA tournament or in the recruiting cycle's this spring/summer when he knows approximately how many 2025 guys he will need. He knows he needs to win so he's going to hit the portal hard to get proven/talented players from the portal. That's his only shot at getting this turned around next year. Guys like McNeeley and Queen (if he commits to IU) will help but they won't be enough and proven talent is what can make things change quickly. I don't know if he can pull it off but time will tell. Matta seems to have somewhat done it at Butler so we'll see if Woodson can change things via the portal at IU in 1 offseason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 This is just about the only roster scenario that I could see saving Woodson with the way things look for the roster as of now with the expected departures. PG 1. transfer with proven experience 2. Cupps CG 3. Newton Wing 4. Galloway 5. McNeeley 6. transfer with proven experience 7. transfer with proven experience 8. high upside transfer/late freshman addition Bigs 9. Reneau 10. Queen 11. Sparks 12. transfer post with length 13. transfer 4 man that can stretch the floor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 11 minutes ago, DC2345 said: This is just about the only roster scenario that I could see saving Woodson with the way things look for the roster as of now with the expected departures. PG 1. transfer with proven experience 2. Cupps CG 3. Newton Wing 4. Galloway 5. McNeeley 6. transfer with proven experience 7. transfer with proven experience 8. high upside transfer/late freshman addition Bigs 9. Reneau 10. Queen 11. Sparks 12. transfer post with length 13. transfer 4 man that can stretch the floor yeah. i think he can only afford to recruit the very high level high school players at this point and focus on portal and top HS guys. most D1s don't recruit a ton of HS kids very hard anymore. of course top 100 guys, but it's a tough world for a HS kid not in the top 100-150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, DC2345 said: I think I've figured out what Woodson is doing. This is just my best guess but I could see him waiting to watch some of the 2025 guys in either the IHSAA tournament or in the recruiting cycle's this spring/summer when he knows approximately how many 2025 guys he will need. He knows he needs to win so he's going to hit the portal hard to get proven/talented players from the portal. That's his only shot at getting this turned around next year. Guys like McNeeley and Queen (if he commits to IU) will help but they won't be enough and proven talent is what can make things change quickly. I don't know if he can pull it off but time will tell. Matta seems to have somewhat done it at Butler so we'll see if Woodson can change things via the portal at IU in 1 offseason. That’s part of the equation, what’s he going to adjust in his schemes? He had four pro players last year, including a lottery pick point guard and a generational 5, and he didn’t come close to winning the conference or getting out of the first weekend. There is more that needs to change than just the roster. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: That’s part of the equation, what’s he going to adjust in his schemes? He had four pro players last year, including a lottery pick point guard and a generational 5, and he didn’t come close to winning the conference or getting out of the first weekend. There is more that needs to change than just the roster. Agree that some things need to change. That said his scheme has been based on his best players. Last year the 2 best players were TJD and JHS so he used more ball screen actions for those 2. This year the guard play is awful other than Galloway getting down hill and Mgbako spotting up so he's gone with a lot more 2 post actions. I don't like it but that's a product of the roster construction. The defense is a whole different issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, DC2345 said: This is just about the only roster scenario that I could see saving Woodson with the way things look for the roster as of now with the expected departures. PG 1. transfer with proven experience 2. Cupps CG 3. Newton Wing 4. Galloway 5. McNeeley 6. transfer with proven experience 7. transfer with proven experience 8. high upside transfer/late freshman addition Bigs 9. Reneau 10. Queen 11. Sparks 12. transfer post with length 13. transfer 4 man that can stretch the floor I'm not sure he can bank on Newton just yet. I think I read somewhere that a very high percentage of athletes that get the same knee surgery do not make it back to their former selves. Where did I read/hear that. Did anybody else see the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 22 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I'm not sure he can bank on Newton just yet. I think I read somewhere that a very high percentage of athletes that get the same knee surgery do not make it back to their former selves. Where did I read/hear that. Did anybody else see the same thing? I didn't say anything about banking on him. I just listed him as 1 of the 13 scholarships and will likely be the only true combo guard unless woodson targets another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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