Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[Between2Halls]

Jon Rothstein gives nicknames to coaches on X. What nickname would he give to Woodson?

[MrsStoller]

53 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Basically the Pacers in the NBA.  Just staying in that 6th to 11th place in conference so you are always competing to be in the playoffs but rarely being good enough to really compete for a title and rarely bad enough to go out and get a few years of high draft picks to build to one.  It is a good place to play for if you are a journeyman looking to cash some checks though.

The fact the Simons are involved in both the Pacers and in keeping Woodson should terrify everyone.

To be fair, the Simons have been involved with the Indiana Pacers since the early 80’s. I’m 56, and remember the day the Pacers had to have a fundraiser on TV in Indy to keep the team alive. Bobby & Nancy Leonard were asking people to donate $ to keep the team here post ABA days. Without Herb & Mel Simon’s purchase of the team, and commitment to keeping the team in Indy, the Pacers would be a distant memory. The drafting of Reggie Miller turned out to be the best decision post-purchase, and they nearly won the damn thing. I think they can do it again someday. It’s a different era.

All that having been said, it’s just a reminder that NBA experience doesn’t equate to college experience. The Simons have earned a lot of goodwill thru the Pacers and other projects, and it’s my sincere hope that whomever of the Simons is involved in keeping CMW in place no matter the results reconsiders that decision (if, in fact, they are part of this whole thing). Because currently that goodwill is being diminished by the refusal to look objectively at ROI on this head coaching position (again, assuming their involvement).

[MrsStoller]

4 hours ago, DWB said:

I am one of the older (if not the oldest HSN member). I was agnostic on Woodson's hire. What he did as a player is irrelevant (at least to me) when it comes to coaching. RMK wasn't even a regular rotation player in college. Probably saw more time than Leal did in his 1st 3 years, but not much). RMK turned out OK as a coach.

Personally I don't think age is a determining factor, one way or the other. Your recent post concerning Pearl is very accurate. He's older than May by a bunch, but he's proven himself to be a winner, as you said. I agree.

FWIW, I'm in the Dusty May camp myself. Not solely because he went to the Final 4 last year, but because he's built a very competitive team from nothing, at a school that many haven't even heard of. FAU is almost like the Hickory of Hoosiers movie in my mind.

I like Dusty's background. former manager for IU, worked his way up, paid his dues, he's earned a shot at the big time. And with his work ethic, I believe he'll succeed no matter where he ends up. 

I would certainly accept Dusty as a new hire, far more than keeping Woodson around. Because I've seen what comes with Woodson, and I'm not convinced it will get any better. His NBA experience has made him accustomed to loosing on a regular basis.  A.500+ record in the pros can get you in the playoffs. That is a helluva lot different than .500+ in college.

Player vs coach is very different. Not every chemist can teach chemistry. 
 

For me, it’s having a framework to coach, including a philosophy, methodology, operational planning, etc. I’m not saying Dusty is the next RMK in being a young coach who turns out to be a generational coach, but being at FAU forced him to develop a framework to achieve a winning culture (imo) at a place that didn’t have one. What I see, as a non-player & mere fan, from Woodson is the implementation of a framework that hasn’t worked. It has consistently not worked. And he has shown no interest in changing that framework. He has no interest from what I can tell to adapt his framework to implement and achieve a winning culture. Having Coach Cignetti leading IU football gives IU fans a window into what that framework looks like in 2024.

That’s what I’m looking for in a coach, that ability to develop & implement a framework for achieving a winning culture.

[Officer Obie]

22 minutes ago, MrsStoller said:

To be fair, the Simons have been involved with the Indiana Pacers since the early 80’s. I’m 56, and remember the day the Pacers had to have a fundraiser on TV in Indy to keep the team alive. Bobby & Nancy Leonard were asking people to donate $ to keep the team here post ABA days. Without Herb & Mel Simon’s purchase of the team, and commitment to keeping the team in Indy, the Pacers would be a distant memory. The drafting of Reggie Miller turned out to be the best decision post-purchase, and they nearly won the damn thing. I think they can do it again someday. It’s a different era.

All that having been said, it’s just a reminder that NBA experience doesn’t equate to college experience. The Simons have earned a lot of goodwill thru the Pacers and other projects, and it’s my sincere hope that whomever of the Simons is involved in keeping CMW in place no matter the results reconsiders that decision (if, in fact, they are part of this whole thing). Because currently that goodwill is being diminished by the refusal to look objectively at ROI on this head coaching position (again, assuming their involvement).

I remember those dark days. Drafting Cheryl Miller's brother instead of Steve Alford was a Godsend. I loved those Pacer teams.

[NWOHoosier]

I’m in the camp that Woodson should be gone, not because of this years record, but because of the terrible trajectory of the program. 
 

The question I have for those of you who are in contact with lots of IU fans on a daily basis (I am not): How does the non-message board crowd generally feel about the situation?  My feeling is a change is a no brainer but am I just in a message board echo chamber?
 

 

[MrsStoller]

2 minutes ago, NWOHoosier said:

I’m in the camp that Woodson should be gone, not because of this years record, but because of the terrible trajectory of the program. 
 

The question I have for those of you who are in contact with lots of IU fans on a daily basis (I am not): How does the non-message board crowd generally feel about the situation?  My feeling is a change is a no brainer but am I just in a message board echo chamber?
 

 

I’m one of 2 board watchers/posters in my extended family group of IU grads and non-IU grads/but IU fans, and we count about 20 people ish. I know of only 1 person who thinks CMW deserves another year. 

[MrsStoller]

20 minutes ago, Officer Obie said:

I remember those dark days. Drafting Cheryl Miller's brother instead of Steve Alford was a Godsend. I loved those Pacer teams.

I will never forget the night they swept the Atlanta Hawks in the playoffs and shrugged off the yoke of never winning a playoff series. People running out from MSA, in pure joy, screaming and yelling on the streets. It was great!

[5fouls]

50 minutes ago, MrsStoller said:

To be fair, the Simons have been involved with the Indiana Pacers since the early 80’s. I’m 56, and remember the day the Pacers had to have a fundraiser on TV in Indy to keep the team alive. Bobby & Nancy Leonard were asking people to donate $ to keep the team here post ABA days. Without Herb & Mel Simon’s purchase of the team, and commitment to keeping the team in Indy, the Pacers would be a distant memory. The drafting of Reggie Miller turned out to be the best decision post-purchase, and they nearly won the damn thing. I think they can do it again someday. It’s a different era.

All that having been said, it’s just a reminder that NBA experience doesn’t equate to college experience. The Simons have earned a lot of goodwill thru the Pacers and other projects, and it’s my sincere hope that whomever of the Simons is involved in keeping CMW in place no matter the results reconsiders that decision (if, in fact, they are part of this whole thing). Because currently that goodwill is being diminished by the refusal to look objectively at ROI on this head coaching position (again, assuming their involvement).

Great post.  Sometimes a bunch of good things get lost when focus turns to one 'bad' thing.

[Petertucky2]

We need to see who stays, for me to form a strong opinion on how bad Mike's retention is. You can build a team around Mbacko, Reneau, and Galloway.  That would be a familiar team with Leal, Cupp and Sparks so that next fall I can feel "oh it is good to see you guys again".  I love watching our young men mature.  I like them.  But if it is all new faces, that is not only less fun for me, a complete rebuild with the same coach is laughable.  It should never be this way in year 4.

Edited March 17 by Petertucky2

[IUCrazy2]

10 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Great post.  Sometimes a bunch of good things get lost when focus turns to one 'bad' thing.

It isn't even bad.  It is just a commitment to mediocre.

[Fkfootball]

I like how so many people have argued against Steve Alford over the years, even though he would've done a considerably better job than the last 3 clowns and probably sucked up all the good recruits in Indiana. Alford would've been IUs Matt Painter. They are so freaking dumb.

[Artesian_86]

11 hours ago, rico said:

What a lot of Bucknut fans feared.

Well, it has worked out pretty well for Wisconsin after Bo Ryan retired and former assistant Greg Gard was eventually hire as the head coach. 

[jefftheref]

2 hours ago, Between2Halls said:

Jon Rothstein gives nicknames to coaches on X. What nickname would he give to Woodson?

Embalmed!

[rico]

10 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Well, it has worked out pretty well for Wisconsin after Bo Ryan retired and former assistant Greg Gard was eventually hire as the head coach. 

Worked out even better for Gonzaga...

[NotIThatLives]

1 hour ago, NWOHoosier said:

I’m in the camp that Woodson should be gone, not because of this years record, but because of the terrible trajectory of the program. 
 

The question I have for those of you who are in contact with lots of IU fans on a daily basis (I am not): How does the non-message board crowd generally feel about the situation?  My feeling is a change is a no brainer but am I just in a message board echo chamber?
 

 

Most of my IU friends wanted him fired in January and have only gotten nastier about it.  

 "I was hoping that he would announce after the game he was retiring but no such luck"

"Hey Woody.  I sat through that garbage. Am I a “True Fan” yet?  Or do I just need to chill?"

"Can’t wait to watch next years roster full of one year rentals. Still holding out hope Woodson has a “medical” issue and retires"

All from huge die hard IU fans.

[Tom White]

2 hours ago, MrsStoller said:

To be fair, the Simons have been involved with the Indiana Pacers since the early 80’s. I’m 56, and remember the day the Pacers had to have a fundraiser on TV in Indy to keep the team alive. Bobby & Nancy Leonard were asking people to donate $ to keep the team here post ABA days. Without Herb & Mel Simon’s purchase of the team, and commitment to keeping the team in Indy, the Pacers would be a distant memory.

There are always two sides to every coin. I have always thought the "fundraiser" had a bit of a pre-determined outcome. They miraculously hit their goal last-minute? A bit fishy at best.

Let's also remember the Simons have benefited as well. Public funds on two different arenas? And the new practice facility? Tax incentives for their companies? The $1 per year life-time lease on the Circle Center Mall property? Wonder how the investors in the still fairly new (at that time) Union Station project felt about that? That project went under and took people with it. Yeah, it has been a definite two-way street.

[Officer Obie]

 IU is becoming a portal program and I don't like it. Woodson didn't create the mess IU is in, but he's not the answer.

[IU_Realist]

1 minute ago, Officer Obie said:

 IU is becoming a portal program and I don't like it. Woodson didn't create the mess IU is in, but he's not the answer.

How didn’t he create the mess?  He did.  Zero recruits.  Last year he recruited the players. 

[5 championships]

2 hours ago, NWOHoosier said:

I’m in the camp that Woodson should be gone, not because of this years record, but because of the terrible trajectory of the program. 
 

The question I have for those of you who are in contact with lots of IU fans on a daily basis (I am not): How does the non-message board crowd generally feel about the situation?  My feeling is a change is a no brainer but am I just in a message board echo chamber?
 

 

I talk to lots of fans. I honestly don’t know one that wants him back. Everyone sees the writing on the wall. Woody might have a couple decent teams but the style of play is not going to get IU a BIG championship or even close to a final four. Then he says we aren’t “true fans”. Man that pissed off a lot of people. The bandaid really needs ripped off.

Auburn plays for an SEC championship today, has already been to a final four, plays a tremendous style of ball, and the coach loves IU but we are stuck with Woody. It’s the lowest point I’ve ever been at as an IU fan. Honestly the last 6 games I didn’t watch a full game. I could only watch bits and pieces before having to turn it off or other things interested me more. Very sad considering I used to plan my nights around IU basketball…

[Officer Obie]

20 minutes ago, IU_Realist said:

How didn’t he create the mess?  He did.  Zero recruits.  Last year he recruited the players. 

I'm talking about the last 10-20 years. Anyway, Coach Woodson swung for the fences and struck out. Badly. He forgot, or didn't realize, that IU isn't the place top recruits want to be anymore. IU needs a Ty Cobb. Hit a single, and if the fates are kind, turn it into a double. Then sit down on the bag and sharpen your spikes before stealing third. That's how you win. Small ball ain't glamorous, but it wins.

[IUJoe]

3 hours ago, MrsStoller said:

To be fair, the Simons have been involved with the Indiana Pacers since the early 80’s. I’m 56, and remember the day the Pacers had to have a fundraiser on TV in Indy to keep the team alive. Bobby & Nancy Leonard were asking people to donate $ to keep the team here post ABA days. Without Herb & Mel Simon’s purchase of the team, and commitment to keeping the team in Indy, the Pacers would be a distant memory. The drafting of Reggie Miller turned out to be the best decision post-purchase, and they nearly won the damn thing. I think they can do it again someday. It’s a different era.

All that having been said, it’s just a reminder that NBA experience doesn’t equate to college experience. The Simons have earned a lot of goodwill thru the Pacers and other projects, and it’s my sincere hope that whomever of the Simons is involved in keeping CMW in place no matter the results reconsiders that decision (if, in fact, they are part of this whole thing). Because currently that goodwill is being diminished by the refusal to look objectively at ROI on this head coaching position (again, assuming their involvement).

They also diminished some of their goodwill in the NE part of the state when they pulled the Mad Ants out of Fort Wayne.  Given that this area already had its fair share of fans that go to Pacer games and root for the opposing team (Celtics, Lakers, etc.) as well as the growing numbers of Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State basketball fans up here, the Simons might want to do a better job reading the room in this part of the state if they expect any return on their investment to realized from here.

[dbmhoosier]

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

Most of my IU friends wanted him fired in January and have only gotten nastier about it.  

 "I was hoping that he would announce after the game he was retiring but no such luck"

"Hey Woody.  I sat through that garbage. Am I a “True Fan” yet?  Or do I just need to chill?"

"Can’t wait to watch next years roster full of one year rentals. Still holding out hope Woodson has a “medical” issue and retires"

All from huge die hard IU fans.

Always a great sign for the future of the program when the fans start rooting for the coach to have a health scare.

[MrsStoller]

1 hour ago, Officer Obie said:

 IU is becoming a portal program and I don't like it. Woodson didn't create the mess IU is in, but he's not the answer.

Agree on the portal. But disagree on Woodson not creating it. He didn’t set himself up for success on the recruiting trail, thus IUBB finds itself in the portal trail to the extreme, imo.

[MrsStoller]

29 minutes ago, IUJoe said:

They also diminished some of their goodwill in the NE part of the state when they pulled the Mad Ants out of Fort Wayne.  Given that this area already had its fair share of fans that go to Pacer games and root for the opposing team (Celtics, Lakers, etc.) as well as the growing numbers of Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State basketball fans up here, the Simons might want to do a better job reading the room in this part of the state if they expect any return on their investment to realized from here.

I’m from Indy but moved to the NE Indiana/Fort Wayne area several years ago. I saw nothing but a 75-80% empty arena when the Mad Ants would play, and that’s being generous. No offense, but I didn’t get the sense they were valued very much up here. Now if we talk hockey, if the Komets ever left, that would be a major kick in the shin to FW.

[Kdug]

37 minutes ago, Officer Obie said:

I'm talking about the last 10-20 years. Anyway, Coach Woodson swung for the fences and struck out. Badly. He forgot, or didn't realize, that IU isn't the place top recruits want to be anymore. IU needs a Ty Cobb. Hit a single, and if the fates are kind, turn it into a double. Then sit down on the bag and sharpen your spikes before stealing third. That's how you win. Small ball ain't glamorous, but it wins.

I don’t think that’s true that top recruits don’t want to go to IU. Top recruits don’t want to go to IU as long as we play the way we have been. If you put a coach that played a modern style of basketball, I’d bet we’d do great in recruiting with how good our NIL is.