iuthruandthru Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, IUDan93 said: I wonder too. I can't take full credit for this, but I wonder how much the administration wants to avoid having a basketball coach bigger than the university. RMK was all many people knew about IU. This is how it is. Until sentiment starts to change with the president and the BOT (which maybe it is starting) there has been a concerted effort to make sure the IU head coach is not bigger than the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev_AK Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 I have wanted to weigh in, but I honestly don’t have any thing positive to say. I have seen a lot of criticism of Romeo out there on the internet, some of it fair, but I can’t help to wonder where this team would be without him. One positive- 40% from 3 last 4 ballgames for Romeo. D Davis playing well, besides his fouling propensities.Al- a great kid, and a hard worker. I was inspired to see Jake out there working after the game. But that’s about it. I can’t help but think that this season could have turned out much differently, and that’s the real source of our disappointment. I also can’t help but think about the effects of vocal fan discontentment, led by a jilted former player/ coach has had on some of these kids. This site is too civil; there is a mob mentality brewing out there, folks. Fitzner for one, is terrified to play now.No matter what part of the state you live in, here in the South we are watching UK gel and play great, and Louisville far exceed expectations. In the North, you have to see Purdue and Michigan excel. Tough. Painful. There is most likely a dynamic behind the scenes that has destroyed this year’s team. It seems by observation, there are a couple of players who think that they can take over games, and try to make plays- more than likely against the coach’s wishes, most often resulting in really bad shots or turnovers. I don’t want to add my speculations, but, it’s obvious to me there are at least 2 who fall into this category. ( one has already been suspended once, and one’s father let the cat out of the bag on Twitter- my opinion only) Hope Archie can “Crean” a few bad apples. Like the real Crean has lamented he couldn’t do at GA. This game season has been wasted. Romeo has been wasted. And if Archie can’t get ahold of things, he will be gone before he has a chance to put “his guys” in there. That being said, I’m “ride or die” for IU, and if anyone out there doesn’t want your tickets, I’ll take them. I’ll need 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierburgh Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, iuthruandthru said: Here’s a terrible thought, we had a lot of recruits at the game today. I hope this did. It happen with any recruits in the locker room. Oh man, not sure if recruits have access to the locker room, but if they do, I sure hope they didn't have to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 I have been reading the thread and I have to say I just don’t understand why Archie needs 4 years to turn it around. We keep talking about culture and his players but in this day and age if Archie is doing to keep going after the Romeo’s of the word this will continue to turn over. Maybe his goal is to do a Villanova and sprinkle in high level 5’s with a team that sticks around for a few years. It just seems to me in this day and age turnover happens constantly and sometimes you have to take the players you can get. Archie isn’t going to be able to recruit everyone he wants or fits his scheme. The same issue I had with Crean i am concerned we are seeing with Archie. Every year is an adjustment now in college basketball. Every year you have new players that can do new things and old players that hopefully grow into something better. I think if Archie wants to be successful at IU he needs to adjust to his players just as much as he needs players that fits what he wants to do. This isn’t Dayton anymore. Note, just to confirm I do not want nor am I saying Archie needs to go. I just think he has boxed himself in just as much as the players have boxed him in with their play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 He'll get another year and probably two but he shouldn't. He's an absolute fraud and his system is total garbage. I had bad vibes from looking at the data on his teams before he arrived and I posted my concerns from the get go. We've got two seasons with him and the eye test matches up with the data...his system is absolute trash. It's an old-school archaic style that does absolutely nothing well. It's pathetic. Look at what your eyes tell you and then look at the the data for his system. His inside out approach of drawing fouls, attacking the basket, and trying to shoot 2's is a bad idea in the modern game and just flat out moronic when you recruit players who can't make FT's. The TO rates are high. The tempo is painfully slow. The scoring is weak and the pack line defense....well that gives him solid defensive efficiency ratings but the offense and system as a whole makes it worthless. National Ranks each season. 3pt attempts. 25, 303, 104, 78, 202, 193, 292, 329. FT %. 2, 96, 240, 204, 291, 216, 330, 317. Tempo. 174. 223, 229, 183, 163, 251, 237. Turnovers. 151, 223, 280, 206, 219, 46, 78, 133 PPG. 83, 64, 132, 165, 189, 112, 229, 198. Sorry guys. Don't see any adjustments incoming next season. Hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Fight or not, names or not, as a whole, their on court behavior gives a self evident picture. If this group likes each other, they hide it very well. They barely show excitement for each other. They don’t show enthusiasm or joy. You don’t see guys chest bumping or jumping on each other, etc. Any outward expression of camaraderie between the players is bare minimum stuff. I am sure some sub-groups of players like each other, but you don’t see a unified team as a whole. They look grim. If you lose Morgan, Langford, McRoberts, and Fitzner and then add 2-3 departures (kicked off, mutual agreement, it doesn’t matter), then that kind of housecleaning could set us on a good course. You can’t underachieve much more than this squad has so hopefully an upswing can start even if next year is just the beginning. We need to see this thing get on a proper course to give all the stakeholders confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Ran some numbers on the packline to see how it compared to his opponents. Pretty underwhelming. He generates 13% more steals but that's lost due to the fact that his system leaves shooters open. Ranked 151st in three point defense on average. His teams average per season / opponents average per season. . Steals: 200 / 173. Blocks: 108 / 119. Redounds: 1095 / 1052. His offensive philosophy is atrocious and his defensive philosophy does what exactly? The way that he wants to play is great for winning at a mid major level where he's facing poor coaches with mid-major level talent but it's been exposed here in the big 10. Of course data isn't everything so there's that at least? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fundamentals Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Genuine question, and some have been suggesting this: with the current losing what would be wrong with blowing up the starting lineup and trying something like Phinisee Al Romeo Jake or Cliff Morgan And then change rotation after that to: DeRon Cliff or Jake Race Thompson shifting guards around and moving bigs in for rest? Keeping Green, Smith and Fitzner nailed to the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Video of the locker room altercation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0p0TMQVrkk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 7 hours ago, iuthruandthru said: Here’s a terrible thought, we had a lot of recruits at the game today. I hope this did not happen with any recruits in the locker room. Easy explanation and spin for anyone that actually would be concerned about this. Most players I knew, know like a little fire. Only ones who don't usually occupy seats 12 and 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 9 hours ago, IUwins0708 said: I was told there was an altercation in the locker room between 3 players today. Just got an email and when/if I hear what happened I’ll post more. Edit-After the game that is. Thanks for letting us know. Total train wreck. I don't mind the fighting. It happens in any sport with any level of competitiveness. What bothers me is that it got to this point. I know the roster is full of injuries, young, inexperienced guys......I get it and accept that. But this problem didn't start last week. This problem started when everyone returned from Christmas break. I would have sent some guys packing at that time. Year 1.5 of your program. If people aren't living up to expectations...they can hit it. Still feel really bad for Smith. After his Dad's tweets I can't even look at him on the court right now. Add the fact he can't go 3 minutes without missing a shot, a defensive assignment, a rebound or another rebound.....it's hard to see him on the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 9 hours ago, IUwins0708 said: Happened before Archie’s press conference, was 3 teammates and blame is starting to get pointed in directions. Team is crumbling. Possible suspensions coming for this I’m told. Maybe that's why accepted blame so quickly in presser? Seemed pretty fast to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 12 hours ago, Hoosierdave said: Also, another prime example of why our season is where it is at. Only one kid on the roster putting in extra effort, smh. Actually this seems pretty staged. I don't like staged. If the kid wants to put the work in great. But to have camera ready and post it that quickly? Seems more like a resume for someone else. It's almost like your friend who posts the pictures of the year around holiday with wife or family,etc....and you know full well what's going on behind the scenes. Never been a fan of staged photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 No punches were thrown from what I was told. Pushing, shoving and blaming are the main things that went on. Definitely a division in the locker room though and if you watch the end of Archie’s presser yesterday it shows. I hope the fact he’s still recruiting kids for next year means he’s going to boot a couple guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 6 hours ago, ADegenerate said: Ran some numbers on the packline to see how it compared to his opponents. Pretty underwhelming. He generates 13% more steals but that's lost due to the fact that his system leaves shooters open. Ranked 151st in three point defense on average. His teams average per season / opponents average per season. . Steals: 200 / 173. Blocks: 108 / 119. Redounds: 1095 / 1052. His offensive philosophy is atrocious and his defensive philosophy does what exactly? The way that he wants to play is great for winning at a mid major level where he's facing poor coaches with mid-major level talent but it's been exposed here in the big 10. Of course data isn't everything so there's that at least? How do these numbers compare to the pack line that is ran by Virginia, Louisville, and Michigan State? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Ballin Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 10 hours ago, IUwins0708 said: I was told there was an altercation in the locker room between 3 players today. Just got an email and when/if I hear what happened I’ll post more. Edit-After the game that is. At least they showed some fight somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daily Hoosier Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 24 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said: No punches were thrown from what I was told. Pushing, shoving and blaming are the main things that went on. Definitely a division in the locker room though and if you watch the end of Archie’s presser yesterday it shows. I hope the fact he’s still recruiting kids for next year means he’s going to boot a couple guys. Yeah, Archie was a mess during that presser. His mannerisms would certainly seem to suggest that he just saw something upsetting (beyond another loss 😂) I'm working to hunt down details on this. I really doubt DG was invovled since he was in the post game presser before Archie. I doubt he would have been sent out if he was central to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 ......driving into school this morning, trying to get myself mentally prepared for my HS students. However, I just can't clear my head about what has slowly happened to this team. All I keep coming back to is Archie is DEFENSE FIRST always will be. In his not exact words, a good defense always leads to more or better options of offense. IMO, the kind of players Archie desires are the smart, athletic, hard nosed, bullish and "not afraid of anyone" types. He needs and desires scrappers, hustlers and guys that will sacrifice everything on every play. That is definitely not this IU team. How many times do you hear about 4 and 5 star players playing outstanding defense? These guys are mostly in the lime-light because of their size, quickness and scoring ability. I have said this many times before and I will continue to say it. 3/4's of these players were brought here to play under Crean's "run and gun, shoot lights out, more focus on offense, who cares about turnovers, just as long as we outscore them, mentality." This is the polar opposite of Archie and what he is trying to get through to these guys. Sure every team wants and need those 4 and 5 star players, especially from the state of Indiana, but Archie is not about having week, soft and slow players. So, here we are now, the wheels are about to completely fall off......and that may just be a good thing. Archie's not going anywhere, this team is in dire straits and I mean "some players" are checking out or have already. Come on Archie, show 'em the door (or bench)! .....NEXT PLEASE!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 33 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said: No punches were thrown from what I was told. Pushing, shoving and blaming are the main things that went on. Definitely a division in the locker room though and if you watch the end of Archie’s presser yesterday it shows. I hope the fact he’s still recruiting kids for next year means he’s going to boot a couple guys. Have you seen the picture posted with a little over 3 seconds left in the game that shows how wide open Phinisee is when Green put up his shot? I think the savior treatment that Romeo was getting going into the year did not play well with some of the guys who have been around for awhile. I think Smith is one of those guys, that being the case, I hope he and his Dad are sent packing. They both have an oversized opinion of where he should be in the pecking order and frankly, if we land Brooks and Hunter is able to come back as advertised, Justin's role is going to be off the bench. I do not think he would he able to handle that and that just allows the cancer to spread more. All I know is that it should be more than just Romeo and the seniors moving on next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daily Hoosier Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Seeking6 said: Actually this seems pretty staged. I don't like staged. If the kid wants to put the work in great. But to have camera ready and post it that quickly? Seems more like a resume for someone else. It's almost like your friend who posts the pictures of the year around holiday with wife or family,etc....and you know full well what's going on behind the scenes. Never been a fan of staged photos. No, that wasn't it from what I saw. He came out and did his work, and a couple of IU student reporters saw him and saw an opportunity to make something of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Seeking6 said: Easy explanation and spin for anyone that actually would be concerned about this. Most players I knew, know like a little fire. Only ones who don't usually occupy seats 12 and 13. I thought this too, but I could just as much see it as a turn off. Especially for a parent, in particular if those players were still there the next year. I don’t think it’s as simple as you make it seem to dismiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUskim Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 48 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said: Yeah, Archie was a mess during that presser. His mannerisms would certainly seem to suggest that he just saw something upsetting (beyond another loss 😂) I'm working to hunt down details on this. I really doubt DG was invovled since he was in the post game presser before Archie. I doubt he would have been sent out if he was central to anything. Wasn’t Romeo part of that presser as well? If this altercation really did happen would it be a gang up on one certain individual? As bad as this individual has played I don’t think it completely fair to lay it all on that indivuals feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 9 hours ago, iuthruandthru said: I have been reading the thread and I have to say I just don’t understand why Archie needs 4 years to turn it around. We keep talking about culture and his players but in this day and age if Archie is doing to keep going after the Romeo’s of the word this will continue to turn over. Maybe his goal is to do a Villanova and sprinkle in high level 5’s with a team that sticks around for a few years. It just seems to me in this day and age turnover happens constantly and sometimes you have to take the players you can get. Archie isn’t going to be able to recruit everyone he wants or fits his scheme. The same issue I had with Crean i am concerned we are seeing with Archie. Every year is an adjustment now in college basketball. Every year you have new players that can do new things and old players that hopefully grow into something better. I think if Archie wants to be successful at IU he needs to adjust to his players just as much as he needs players that fits what he wants to do. This isn’t Dayton anymore. Note, just to confirm I do not want nor am I saying Archie needs to go. I just think he has boxed himself in just as much as the players have boxed him in with their play. Damn. I've been trying to articulate these same thoughts over on the main board I frequent, and you've just managed to say exactly what I've been trying to get across but haven't yet been able. I just want to quote the whole thing. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 12 hours ago, IUwins0708 said: I was told there was an altercation in the locker room between 3 players today. Just got an email and when/if I hear what happened I’ll post more. Edit-After the game that is. Personally, I hope it was Morgan grabbing some guys by the throat and explaining to them that his Senior season was not going to go down like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Muddy River said: Personally, I hope it was Morgan grabbing some guys by the throat and explaining to them that his Senior season was not going to go down like this. I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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