Princeton at Indiana Post game

[IUskim]

11 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Better than topless posting

Depends on who’s topless

[tdhoosier]

I mentioned it in a previous thread, but I think the starting line-up will be situational. I doubt we see the same line-up game to game because CAM has this type of flexibility. I'm guessing there will be 3 different starting lineups used throughout the season revolving around TJD, Rob, and Devonte. 

 For example, take Brunk. He was in his element last night because Princeton had a bit of size. Brunk didn't look as great (at least defensively) when playing against smaller line-ups. In those situations, I'd rather see Race or Justin play aside TJD with Al, Devonte and Rob. Or throw in Hunter if you still want some length, but need quickness. 

...and speaking about flexibility. I know it's early and competition hasn't been stellar, but when it looked like we were out of sorts in the first half last night, how awesome was it to have the confidence that CAM could almost do an entire line change to find a combination that'd start producing. Last year, if our starters weren't playing well, we were hand-cuffed and just hoped they'd play their way through the bad play. 

[Zlinedavid]

23 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Better than topless posting

Depends on who is doing the posting. 

[IUFLA]

26 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

My rant is just rant, was pointing to you or really to anyone in particular. Definitely agree with the fluid comment -- it has to be fluid, we keep having key players injured or sick. One day, everyone will be healthy.

Understand. I was just clarifying my opinion. 

And I hope your last sentence comes true soon.

[5fouls]

Since the topic of Justin at the 3 was brought back up, let's take a look at that again now that we have 5 games under our belt.

I would like to start and end the discussion with divvying up the 80 minutes per game allowed for the 4 and 5 spots.  

Assume everyone is healthy and available.  Feel free to disagree and/or poke holes in these numbers.

80 available minutes at the 4 and 5.

Brunk - 20

Davis - 12

Thompson - 20

Jackson Davis - 25

That leaves a whopping 3 minutes available for Justin at the 4. With the emergence of Thompson, we need to accept the fact that 3 of the 5 bigs will be on the floor at least half the time, with Justin being the 3 when that happens.

Yes, on any given night injuries and foul trouble could skew the numbers, but Justin will be getting 25-30 minutes a game, much of it at the 3.

 

[IUFLA]

7 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I mentioned it in a previous thread, but I think the starting line-up will be situational. I doubt we see the same line-up game to game because CAM has this type of flexibility. I'm guessing there will be 3 different starting lineups used throughout the season revolving around TJD, Rob, and Devonte. 

 For example, take Brunk. He was in his element last night because Princeton had a bit of size. Brunk didn't look as great (at least defensively) when playing against smaller line-ups. In those situations, I'd rather see Race or Justin play aside TJD with Al, Devonte and Rob. Or throw in Hunter if you still want some length, but need quickness. 

...and speaking about flexibility. I know it's early and competition hasn't been stellar, but when it looked like we were out of sorts in the first half last night, how awesome was it to have the confidence that CAM could almost do an entire line change to find a combination that'd start producing. Last year, if our starters weren't playing well, we were hand-cuffed and just hoped they'd play their way through the bad play. 

Just my thought, but do you think CAM is going to be that reactive to other teams starting lineups? I'm not sure...

[Hoosierhoopster]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Since the topic of Justin at the 3 was brought back up, let's take a look at that again now that we have 5 games under our belt.

I would like to start and end the discussion with divvying up the 80 minutes per game allowed for the 4 and 5 spots.  

Assume everyone is healthy and available.  Feel free to disagree and/or poke holes in these numbers.

80 available minutes at the 4 and 5.

Brunk - 20

Davis - 12

Thompson - 20

Jackson Davis - 25

That leaves a whopping 3 minutes available for Justin at the 4. With the emergence of Thompson, we need to accept the fact that 3 of the 5 bigs will be on the floor at least half the time, with Justin being the 3 when that happens.

Yes, on any given night injuries and foul trouble could skew the numbers, but Justin will be getting 25-30 minutes a game, much of it at the 3.

 

Fouls man you're missing the point. This isn't traditional 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 spots, it's a 3-forward lineup. Playing him in a three-forward lineup does not make him  a "3", he's not playing as a "3", he's playing as a mobile rolling forward. Why is it so important to you to call him a 3? I mean besides that he's not playing as a 3, does it matter? In fairness, I'm going to direct that question back to me, I guess it doesn't matter what you want to call him, he's playing well -- from my perspective (and Gleas's for what it's worth) he's just not a 3 and calling him that is misleading.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Fouls man you're missing the point. This isn't traditional 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 spots, it's a 3-forward lineup. Playing him in a three-forward lineup does not make him  a "3", he's not playing as a "3", he's playing as a mobile rolling forward. Why is it so important to you to call him a 3? I mean besides that he's not playing as a 3, does it matter? In fairness, I'm going to direct that question back to me, I guess it doesn't matter what you want to call him, he's playing well -- from my perspective (and Gleas's for what it's worth) he's just not a 3 and calling him that is misleading.

Why does it matter to anyone what we call each position.  As the lineup is constituted and you want to number each position then yes Smith is playing the 3. Just because you are a 3 does not limit how you play or where you are playing on the floor.

[tdhoosier]

7 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Just my thought, but do you think CAM is going to be that reactive to other teams starting lineups? I'm not sure...

Good point, but I'm not sure 'reactive' is the word. I would put it in terms of what's more advantageous for the team. 

Using Brunk as an example again, CAM wouldn't be reactive to Troy but Brunk only got 11 minutes. He just didn't look good out there with that matchup. That said, I want Brunk out there when we go against teams like MSU.  Is that being reactive? I guess we'd be arguing semantics, but if that's the case all coaches are reactive to a certain degree. 

[IUFLA]

12 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Why does it matter to anyone what we call each position.  As the lineup is constituted and you want to number each position then yes Smith is playing the 3. Just because you are a 3 does not limit how you play or where you are playing on the floor.

I think it's just a convenient way to describe a position and the responsibilities of that position within the offense, along with the player attributes, both physically and skill-set wise.

People with a far better grip on the intricacies of basketball than I have argue that Justin's skill-set doesn't match the requisite skill-set for a 3 in most offenses. 

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Good point, but I'm not sure 'reactive' is the word. I would put it in terms of what's more advantageous for the team. 

Using Brunk as an example again, CAM wouldn't be reactive to Troy but Brunk only got 11 minutes. He just didn't look good out there with that matchup. That said, I want Brunk out there when we go against teams like MSU.  Is that being reactive? I guess we'd be arguing semantics, but if that's the case all coaches are reactive to a certain degree. 

Agree with that 100%.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

I think it's just a convenient way to describe a position and the responsibilities of that position within the offense, along with the player attributes, both physically and skill-set wise.

People with a far better grip on the intricacies of basketball than I have argue that Justin's skill-set doesn't match the requisite skill-set for a 3 in most offenses. 

I guess that is the question what is a persons definition of a player who plays what we consider the typical 3 position.  Is it a guy who is around 6'6 and athletic who can shoot form the outside and is a good ball handler.  I just took a look at our last two championship teams and see if the guys playing the 3 on those teams were a typical 3.

81- Ted Kitchell 6'8 could shoot from distance but was not a great defender or ball handler.

87- Ricky Calloway 6'6 was not a great outside shooter.  Scored mainly from 15 Ft and in and was not as athletic after knee injuries and did not handle the ball that well.

[IUaic]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I know just talking about the basketball board

We are a football school now, so we can probably go to 1 board for all sports not Football. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

21 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Why does it matter to anyone what we call each position.  As the lineup is constituted and you want to number each position then yes Smith is playing the 3. Just because you are a 3 does not limit how you play or where you are playing on the floor.

I think I specifically answered this already. You quoted me, and ignored it. He's not playing the 3, but as I said, already, " I guess it doesn't matter what you want to call him, he's playing well ."

[IUguy]

6 hours ago, IUFLA said:

I think Rob will eventually start, once he get some practice time under his belt. He's obviously rusty.

Right now, I see the starting 5 as 

Brunk

TJD

Smith

Green

Phinisee

I think that that'll be the backcourt for 2 main reasons. 1) Archie has said Devonte is at his best "along side someone" and being off the ball. 2) That's our best defensive backcourt tandem (but Al isn't far behind in that area).

I also think that looking how last night's minutes were distributed, Archie is honing in on his rotation...

Durham

Thompson

Davis

All getting a good slice of playing time

Hunter

Anderson

Franklin

Getting less, but, depending on the situation, still getting time. Very fluid as the year goes along.

I agree with this starting five when competition heats up, and especially for BIG play.  Durham and Thompson will be first off the bench, but I'm not sure about Davis unless he is ever fully healthy, which is questionable.  I still think that Hunter will round into shape, improve on defense and find his shot.  By mid-January he should be right there with Al and Race as the first subs.  Unlike last night, there will be games when we need more outside shooting.  Green, Rob, Al and Hunter will be key in this area.  Also Anderson when he is in the game.

[IU Scott]

16 minutes ago, IUguy said:

I agree with this starting five when competition heats up, and especially for BIG play.  Durham and Thompson will be first off the bench, but I'm not sure about Davis unless he is ever fully healthy, which is questionable.  I still think that Hunter will round into shape, improve on defense and find his shot.  By mid-January he should be right there with Al and Race as the first subs.  Unlike last night, there will be games when we need more outside shooting.  Green, Rob, Al and Hunter will be key in this area.  Also Anderson when he is in the game.

I can't see Archie having AL coming off the bench

[OLDIUFAN]

What I like most at least for now! Is we have several combinations we can start and be just fine. That gives Archie some great latitude to come up with game plans and use who best can execute that plan! Last year do to injuries we lost our ability to mix and match to be more effective. If we can stay healthy! I believe we will be right in the top mix of the Big Ten! 
Hoping next year the powers in charge can see fit to up your competition in the early stages. 

[5fouls]

I will make a bold prediction right now.  Unless he is injured or sick.  Al Durham starts every game this season.  If I am wrong, feel free to ridicule me when it happens.

[Reacher]

I said earlier " As of now, I'm in the camp that Rob is coming off the bench to back up Green and Durham but will get near the same minutes as those two. It wouldn't surprise me to see Rob flip flop with Durham at some point."

I know Rob is not 100%  and that is why I could see him flip flopping with Al. Right now,  Als stats are superior. Rob wil have to earn his way back. His D may be the reason why. I do not see Rob , Al , and Devonte starting together on a regular basis. Doing so would knock Smith or Brunk out of starting.  Devonte sure looked like the good Devonte on Tues. I think he has matured as a player just like Justin. I don't see Devonte coming off the bench unless its due to an injury. While Justin may not be a "typical" 3, that is the spot he is playing- and playing well there. 

As 5 fouls stated, there are not enough minutes at the 4  and 5 for Justin. With CAM wanting to play big, fast and old, I think JS fits that vision. His ball handling, shooting and decision making have improved. He doesn't need to be a traditional 3 but is close enough and helps create mismatches.

[Hoosierhoopster]

34 minutes ago, Reacher said:

I said earlier " As of now, I'm in the camp that Rob is coming off the bench to back up Green and Durham but will get near the same minutes as those two. It wouldn't surprise me to see Rob flip flop with Durham at some point."

I know Rob is not 100%  and that is why I could see him flip flopping with Al. Right now,  Als stats are superior. Rob wil have to earn his way back. His D may be the reason why. I do not see Rob , Al , and Devonte starting together on a regular basis. Doing so would knock Smith or Brunk out of starting.  Devonte sure looked like the good Devonte on Tues. I think he has matured as a player just like Justin. I don't see Devonte coming off the bench unless its due to an injury. While Justin may not be a "typical" 3, that is the spot he is playing- and playing well there. 

As 5 fouls stated, there are not enough minutes at the 4  and 5 for Justin. With CAM wanting to play big, fast and old, I think JS fits that vision. His ball handling, shooting and decision making have improved. He doesn't need to be a traditional 3 but is close enough and helps create mismatches.

With CAM wanting to play big, fast... Brunk does not fit that -- the fast part -- and you're assuming CAM wants to play "big," can't really do that, he's playing to the strengths of who is available and healthy. I like Brunk, he's a solid player. I wouldn't slot him as perpetual starter though. I do think Smith will continue to start fwiw. I also don't really care who starts, notwithstanding all the focus that gets. Who plays the most, who plays the most in crunch time, and who finishes, are at least as important.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

I will make a bold prediction right now.  Unless he is injured or sick.  Al Durham starts every game this season.  If I am wrong, feel free to ridicule me when it happens.

I'm going to ridicule you anyway. 

😁

[Reacher]

10 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

With CAM wanting to play big, fast... Brunk does not fit that -- the fast part -- and you're assuming CAM wants to play "big," can't really do that, he's playing to the strengths of who is available and healthy. I like Brunk, he's a solid player. I wouldn't slot him as perpetual starter though. I do think Smith will continue to start fwiw. I also don't really care who starts, notwithstanding all the focus that gets. Who plays the most, who plays the most in crunch time, and who finishes, are at least as important.

So you are saying eventually 3 guards + TJD and JS?

CAM has talked about how the depth up front is important to be able to rotate fresh guys in since the bigs will wear down quickly playing at a fast pace. I think Brunk continues to start.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, Reacher said:

So you are saying eventually 3 guards + TJD and JS?

CAM has talked about how the depth up front is important to be able to rotate fresh guys in since the bigs will wear down quickly playing at a fast pace. I think Brunk continues to start.

We’ll see. If you read what CAM is saying he’s not saying he wants to run a big team. You can’t get out and run in transition D with that group — which is exactly what CAM is saying he wants to do. If we go back to a traditional front line team we’ll get steam rolled in the B1G and it’s actually contrary to what CAM has been saying. One thing I really like is how well he has adjusted to who is healthy and available. Brunk is a solid big. He is not quick, however, he does not run well in tradition, the team out of the gate often moved slowly on offense, and he doesn’t rotate quickly on D. We’ll see 

[Drroogh]

2 hours ago, Reacher said:

I said earlier " As of now, I'm in the camp that Rob is coming off the bench to back up Green and Durham but will get near the same minutes as those two. It wouldn't surprise me to see Rob flip flop with Durham at some point."

I know Rob is not 100%  and that is why I could see him flip flopping with Al. Right now,  Als stats are superior. Rob wil have to earn his way back. His D may be the reason why. I do not see Rob , Al , and Devonte starting together on a regular basis. Doing so would knock Smith or Brunk out of starting.  Devonte sure looked like the good Devonte on Tues. I think he has matured as a player just like Justin. I don't see Devonte coming off the bench unless its due to an injury. While Justin may not be a "typical" 3, that is the spot he is playing- and playing well there. 

As 5 fouls stated, there are not enough minutes at the 4  and 5 for Justin. With CAM wanting to play big, fast and old, I think JS fits that vision. His ball handling, shooting and decision making have improved. He doesn't need to be a traditional 3 but is close enough and helps create mismatches.

My only disagreement, is that based on the body of work last year and this year, Rob is still our best point! Let's just hope he gets completely and stays healthy this year regardless of whether he starts or not!

[Rev_AK]

It’s purely anecdotal at this point, and I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I have a quiet confidence in this team. Something feels different. Could be chemistry, buy-in, or Arch and staff having another year under their belts. But I feel like something good is happening before our eyes.