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Yet Another School Shooting


5fouls
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3 students confirmed dead.  Suspect is a 15 year old sophomore.

Questions that come to my mind:

  • How does a 15 year old come into possession of a semi-automatic handgun?
  • Was this a bullying related incident, and if so, what factors led to this type of retaliation?
  • How do the parents of the victims deal with this?  As a parent of 2 high school students, despite all that has happened since Columbine, when your child leaves to go to school in the morning, it does not enter your mind that they won't be coming home.  If they are out running around late at night with friends, that fear always enters the back of your mind.  But, not when they leave in the morning to go to school.  You just don't think those thoughts.
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5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

3 students confirmed dead.  Suspect is a 15 year old sophomore.

Questions that come to my mind:

  • How does a 15 year old come into possession of a semi-automatic handgun?
  • Was this a bullying related incident, and if so, what factors led to this type of retaliation?
  • How do the parents of the victims deal with this?  As a parent of 2 high school students, despite all that has happened since Columbine, when your child leaves to go to school in the morning, it does not enter your mind that they won't be coming home.  If they are out running around late at night with friends, that fear always enters the back of your mind.  But, not when they leave in the morning to go to school.  You just don't think those thoughts.

All good questions. Another is what is the cause of all of the mental/emotional illness in young people? Aside from these school shooters, there is an abundance of kids suffering from all sorts of disorders. I used to work at a small college. The number of students who had severe mental and emotional issues and were on meds was shocking. It was common for security to respond to incidents of kids having a mental/emotional breakdown.

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3 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

All good questions. Another is what is the cause of all of the mental/emotional illness in young people? Aside from these school shooters, there is an abundance of kids suffering from all sorts of disorders. I used to work at a small college. The number of students who had severe mental and emotional issues and were on meds was shocking. It was common for security to respond to incidents of kids having a mental/emotional breakdown.

I believe the internet and social media play a large role in the mental health issues. The brain isn't fully developed until about 25 and I just don't think the human mind is built for the information overload we deal with today. JMO

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Just now, mrflynn03 said:

I believe the internet and social media play a large role in the mental health issues. The brain isn't fully developed until about 25 and I just don't think the human mind is built for the information overload we deal with today. JMO

I think that's a big part. I also believe treating kids with meds at an early age is an issue. Used to be boys who were fidgety in class worked out their energy on the playground. Now they're diagnosed with ADHD and are put on meds.

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5 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

All good questions. Another is what is the cause of all of the mental/emotional illness in young people? Aside from these school shooters, there is an abundance of kids suffering from all sorts of disorders. I used to work at a small college. The number of students who had severe mental and emotional issues and were on meds was shocking. It was common for security to respond to incidents of kids having a mental/emotional breakdown.

You have hit on an important question.  In most of these incidents, innocent bystanders are caught in the middle, and the perps don't seem to care.  Retaliation for things like bullying or high school love triangles used to be directed only at those responsible.  Now, it's Tom & Jerry bullied me, or Susie cheated on me with Brad, so I'm going to kill them and anyone else that might happen to be in the area.  Those types of reactions against innocent parties are so random, mental illness almost has to be a factor.   

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11 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

You have hit on an important question.  In most of these incidents, innocent bystanders are caught in the middle, and the perps don't seem to care.  Retaliation for things like bullying or high school love triangles used to be directed only at those responsible.  Now, it's Tom & Jerry bullied me, or Susie cheated on me with Brad, so I'm going to kill them and anyone else that might happen to be in the area.  Those types of reactions against innocent parties are so random, mental illness almost has to be a factor.   

And to what degree have these kids with mental issues been de-sensitized to killing through video games?

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47 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

All good questions. Another is what is the cause of all of the mental/emotional illness in young people? Aside from these school shooters, there is an abundance of kids suffering from all sorts of disorders. I used to work at a small college. The number of students who had severe mental and emotional issues and were on meds was shocking. It was common for security to respond to incidents of kids having a mental/emotional breakdown.

Really worry about kids these days. I feel like they are getting it from all sides and they live in a country that gets more fractured by the day.

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5 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I think that's a big part. I also believe treating kids with meds at an early age is an issue. Used to be boys who were fidgety in class worked out their energy on the playground. Now they're diagnosed with ADHD and are put on meds.

Going to throw the flag on this one, only because I come from the other side of the coin. I WISH I had been diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, but I wasn’t until the age of 30. But, my grades never suffered so why bother, right? 
 

ADHD is a very common condition to misunderstand. It’s not simply “fidgeting”. It’s taxing on your brain to have to tell yourself to constantly focus. There’s also the common co-morbidities of anxiety and depression, which are both tied to the ADHD brain’s lack of/rapid processing of dopamine. Fortunately, mine only came with depression, but it’s not uncommon for both to be present. 
 

Those co-morbidities can lead to a lack of socialization, inability to regulate emotions, isolation….any of these starting to sound like familiar traits associated with acts of violence? 
 

ADHD medication isn’t the evil that it’s made out to be. It doesn’t turn you into a crack fiend. You don’t get “addicted”. I take the most evil of the evil: instant release Adderall. I’ve taken the exact same dose every day for over 3200 consecutive days, no changes. Find an “addict” with that much consistency. 
 

And downing a couple of pills a day is all it takes to transform me from a depressed, overly sensitive space cadet into a normal human being. 
 

Sorry for the sermon, but that’s obviously a hot button topic for me. Is ADHD misdiagnosed in some kids? Sure. But don’t just assume that ADHD is some kind of made up or overblown problem. I can assure you, it is absolutely a real condition in which there are just as many people that don’t get diagnosed when they should be, as there are misdiagnoses. 
 

Edit: My wife was also diagnosed as an adult. We’ve known for awhile that our kids would likely have it. Our 10 year old was just diagnosed this year, and yes, we started him on medication, and it’s made a world of difference. We’re waiting before starting our 8 year old, but it’s only a matter of when.

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16 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

All good questions. Another is what is the cause of all of the mental/emotional illness in young people? Aside from these school shooters, there is an abundance of kids suffering from all sorts of disorders. I used to work at a small college. The number of students who had severe mental and emotional issues and were on meds was shocking. It was common for security to respond to incidents of kids having a mental/emotional breakdown.

Last weekend I was talking with a high school teacher who said an ambulance is picking up a kid at school almost weekly for mental breakdowns.  He attributed it, in part, to kids being pressured from parents. I'm all for setting high expectations, but it seems it may be going too far.

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Break down of family and societal morals are always going to be at the top of my list. (although i'm fully aware this is a very complex issue) I am not here to push my moral and religious views on everyone so I'll just save it. Lot's of things have changed in this country over the past 30-50-75 years. Children used to come home to a parent....now both are working and exhausted just to pay the mortgage. We let the internet and tv/movies and video games raise our kids. Do parents even sit around the dinner table and discuss the day? Did when I grew up. Do they have conversations around bullying, stress, love relationships? Has society replaced the need for a Holy moral standard with everyone being their own moral judge and letting man follow their own moral compass and set what is right and wrong? Is this the progressive vision people keep pushing for? Well it goes on and on. Of course I don't know how you can leave a weapon in a home in such a way that it could be accessed....and introduce it to children without teaching them EVERYTHING about safety and responsibility first. I know there is a lot coming at these kids but I got bullied in school....I got made fun of....and sure it's awful but my God I would never hurt anyone that had done that to me. Anyways...as much money as we spend on education in America I also don't understand how schools are not all protected by security upon entrance. There are so many other factors there just isn't time to address them all on here but this stuff begins in the home...and what you let in the home and what you introduce to your children. Unfortunately, you can do all the right things and your child may still end up involved or get caught up in this stuff. But these things haven't always gone on...and it's up to us to look at what we have changed in the last 30 years or so and decide is it worth continuing to pursue these things as a society if it risks our children and families.

Edited by dgambill
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38 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

This is part of who we are as a society and country.  It's never going to change.  

No...it could change...it might not go away completely because evil will always exist but it certainly could become a very uncommon thing....but it likely won't...because the answer would require a major shift in the way we live our lives. 

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2 hours ago, dgambill said:

No...it could change...it might not go away completely because evil will always exist but it certainly could become a very uncommon thing....but it likely won't...because the answer would require a major shift in the way we live our lives. 

You hold on to that optimism.  I appreciate that.  But it has ceased to live within me after many years.  As Pogo said long ago, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

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9 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

You hold on to that optimism.  I appreciate that.  But it has ceased to live within me after many years.  As Pogo said long ago, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

Well I'm not optimistic we WILL change....but I know we COULD change if we had our values right. People can change...unfortunately it is moving in the wrong direction quite rapidly...but there is another power that can move things back in the other direction. I'll leave it at that. All I can do is let that happen in my family first and encourage others to share in it and help them with theirs if they would like.

Edited by dgambill
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3 hours ago, jv1972iu said:

You hold on to that optimism.  I appreciate that.  But it has ceased to live within me after many years.  As Pogo said long ago, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

Man, I love that strip and that quote. 

We have accepted periodic school/public mass shootings as part of daily life. Just like traffic “accidents.”  It will not change in our lifetimes.

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14 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Man, I love that strip and that quote. 

We have accepted periodic school/public mass shootings as part of daily life. Just like traffic “accidents.”  It will not change in our lifetimes.

I agree.  And while everyone bemoans these episodes, there is no will to do anything substantial towards changing their occurrence.  So, as you stated, they are accepted... sadly.

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6 hours ago, dgambill said:

No...it could change...it might not go away completely because evil will always exist but it certainly could become a very uncommon thing....but it likely won't...because the answer would require a major shift in the way we live our lives. 

 

30 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

I agree.  And while everyone bemoans these episodes, there is no will to do anything substantial towards changing their occurrence.  So, as you stated, they are accepted... sadly.

 

47 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Man, I love that strip and that quote. 

We have accepted periodic school/public mass shootings as part of daily life. Just like traffic “accidents.”  It will not change in our lifetimes.

I'm going to back up @dgambillright now. 

Growing up I got a gun every Christmas and birthday, had access to whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. That said, I would not do that if I had kids today. Anyway,

Would keep them in my truck and go hunting after school, no problem. Never in my life did I ever consider harming anyone. I can't fathom that.

But, whether you believe in God, Jesus, Bhudda, or whatever, there is a moral breakdown in our society that I believe is irreconcilable. 

Hatred permeates our world.  How do we beat it?

 

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18 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

Going to throw the flag on this one, only because I come from the other side of the coin. I WISH I had been diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, but I wasn’t until the age of 30. But, my grades never suffered so why bother, right? 
 

ADHD is a very common condition to misunderstand. It’s not simply “fidgeting”. It’s taxing on your brain to have to tell yourself to constantly focus. There’s also the common co-morbidities of anxiety and depression, which are both tied to the ADHD brain’s lack of/rapid processing of dopamine. Fortunately, mine only came with depression, but it’s not uncommon for both to be present. 
 

Those co-morbidities can lead to a lack of socialization, inability to regulate emotions, isolation….any of these starting to sound like familiar traits associated with acts of violence? 
 

ADHD medication isn’t the evil that it’s made out to be. It doesn’t turn you into a crack fiend. You don’t get “addicted”. I take the most evil of the evil: instant release Adderall. I’ve taken the exact same dose every day for over 3200 consecutive days, no changes. Find an “addict” with that much consistency. 
 

And downing a couple of pills a day is all it takes to transform me from a depressed, overly sensitive space cadet into a normal human being. 
 

Sorry for the sermon, but that’s obviously a hot button topic for me. Is ADHD misdiagnosed in some kids? Sure. But don’t just assume that ADHD is some kind of made up or overblown problem. I can assure you, it is absolutely a real condition in which there are just as many people that don’t get diagnosed when they should be, as there are misdiagnoses. 
 

Edit: My wife was also diagnosed as an adult. We’ve known for awhile that our kids would likely have it. Our 10 year old was just diagnosed this year, and yes, we started him on medication, and it’s made a world of difference. We’re waiting before starting our 8 year old, but it’s only a matter of when.

Totally defer to you on this. Clearly ADHD is a thing and requires treatment. However, schools are eliminating recess and then punish kids who don’t sit still in class. There is pressure on parents to medicate kids 

https://thebestschools.org/magazine/death-of-recess/

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45 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

 

 

I'm going to back up @dgambillright now. 

Growing up I got a gun every Christmas and birthday, had access to whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. That said, I would not do that if I had kids today. Anyway,

Would keep them in my truck and go hunting after school, no problem. Never in my life did I ever consider harming anyone. I can't fathom that.

But, whether you believe in God, Jesus, Bhudda, or whatever, there is a moral breakdown in our society that I believe is irreconcilable. 

Hatred permeates our world.  How do we beat it?

 

I’m not sure honestly. I grew up with guns and hunting. But the way I (and probably you) was taught to use it was different than today. Hell, kids like this latest dipsh*t probably are not taught how to properly and safely handle a weapon. And most importantly there wasn’t such an intense hatred of the “other” when I was growing up. 

Also back in the day grown men didn’t need to carry an automatic rifle into Starbucks to prove a point. 

I’m at a loss for how us as a society to get past this. I mean I know how we could, but the will is just not there among the people that hold power. They profit from our hatred and mistrust. 

As far as guns goes, I would never consider owning one here in Brooklyn. It would be unnecessary and kind of stupid. But if we lived out in the sticks upstate, I would at least have a shotgun (locked up). 

 

Edited by Lostin76
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On 11/30/2021 at 4:59 PM, Lostin76 said:

Really worry about kids these days. I feel like they are getting it from all sides and they live in a country that gets more fractured by the day.

Agree. We don't seem to be the nurturing society that we once were. My son-in-law was stabbed in his apartment parking lot over a parking spot. My wife and I spent the spring and summer caring for four grandchildren. Fist fights of the past have turned into shootings. Kids are growing up with that as their reality and their solution when something doesn't go the way they want. I don't have any solutions and am mostly just sad for everyone involved.

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