IU Scott

5 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Today's trivia.

 

When is 36.9 ppg <19.4 ppg 

 

Answer: when it's Vic and Sabonis vs PG.😃

I just know I have not enjoyed watching the Pacers the last few years and this year I really like watching this team.  They actually play great team basketball and share the ball well. Sabonis and Boronovich both really know how to play the game and are very fundamentally sound basketball players.

27 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I respectfully disagree. This was a barometer win because is was the back end of a back to back at Cleveland.   Pavers were 0 and 2 this year on back end.  I believe last year's team would lose that game.  This team is finding ways to close.  Not saying they will even make playoffs but I think this win does tell us a lot

I think they had lost like 12 straight games on the 2nd game of a back to back.  I think he is just trying to find any little excuse to not give the Pacers credit.

21 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

And I never said the PG teams were better than those teams.

Then why did you say that they never made the ECF then.

24 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

You guys are right, getting beat down in the first round by the Pistons and Knicks, losing in the first round to mediocre Celtics and Hawks teams, and missing the playoffs entirely were very impressive performances by the 90s Pacers teams that didn’t make it to the ECF.  Definitely way more successful seasons than the PG Pacers teams had.

They did to make the ECF in the 90's so I have no idea what you are talking about. They were in the ECF in 94, 95, 98, 99, and 2000 while going to the NBA championship.

9 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

The PG Pacers teams were eliminated by a historically great Heat team 3 years in a row, and took them to 6 or more games every time... Meanwhile the 90s Pacers teams were eliminated by a historically great Bulls team once.  Who really had the tougher road?  But hey, if you want to discount two of the eight great seasons the Pacers have ever had in the NBA because you hate the player that got you there, you do you.  I’m glad you guys are happy he’s gone, but it’ll be a while before you’re ever that good again.

The NBA back in the 90's were a lot better than the NBA of today and it is not close.  You had more quality depth in the NBA instead of 2 or 3 really great teams that you have today. With expansion it has totally diluted the NBA where it has taken the competitive balance away in the NBA.  I would take the Kicks and even the Magic with Shaq and Hardaway over those Heat teams.

27 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

“The media” is incredibly stupid.  Especially the clowns that dominate the Indy market.

Just because you don't agree with people doesn't make them clowns.

6 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

The hate is kind of exemplified by IU Scott’s comment above.  Like I said, I get it because PG soured on the Pacers last season, but outside of last year, PG was never a “selfish” player that “lacked intangibles.”  He was the go-to player on some of the best teams in Pacers history.  He just decided he wanted out of Indy, and as HH has said, you can’t really blame him considering how Bird blew up the team.  He wasn’t the right fit for the Pacers anymore, but in the right situation he most certainly can be one of the go-to options on a championship contender.  

That makes it hard to say that Indy “won” the trade, as neither Vic or Sabonas is that type of player even in the best case scenario.  But given the circumstances, it’s looking more and more like the trade was a win-win for both teams.

When I lost respect for PG was when they wanted to use him at the 4 and he refused to do it.  To me a player does what the coach thinks is best for the team.. To me PG put himself in front of the team and i never could respect him again.  if you live in the Indy area you would know that a lot of the media did not really have to much respect for PG as well and it has been going on more than a year.

15 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

My question now is, what happens when Turner does come back? This has become VO's team, but it was always supposed to be Turner's team.

It is everybody's team and not just one player like it was with PG

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Kawhi and Parker ten times what Turner and Robinson bring, but OK! I'm guessing you don't really think the Pacers are on the Spurs level. All I'm saying is a little perspective, nice win, but not one to say indicates that the P's are suddenly some kind of contending team. Here's to hoping they get there. Definitely some nice early showings.

I never said they are a contending team but I feel like this trade is a lot better for the Pacers than you give it credit.  I think this team is a lot more enjoyable to watch because of the style of play.  They no longer use a lot of one on one isolation like they did with PG.. You see ball movement and off the ball screens and Sabonis is great at setting screens.  You don't see players whining to officials after every call like PG did.

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Sure, and it's early. Parker of course also is not currently playing with the Spurs. Not saying it wasn't a nice come back W for the P's, but it's not a signature win, it's an early season win with the Spurs missing two key players, and one of the top 3-5 players in the League.

Pacers were without two key players as well in Turner and Robinson.

24 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Really? Come on, you're not really saying Vic is on PG's level, are you? OK I read again, you said yet -- hey, I hope Vic turns into a franchise player, 4-5 time all star, dominant on both ends, but he has a long way to go to get there. At this point, I wouldn't put him in the top 50, but if he keeps growing his game like he's showing now, watch out. Rooting for him.

And don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Vic fan, he's my favorite former Hoosier. But he's nowhere near PG's level -- btw, this was the Spurs without Kawhi Leanord, completely different team, and no, Turner is nowhere near Kawhi, of course. it's really early, Pacers have some nice young pieces, Vic is playing really well, but a little perspective.

It is the same San Antonio team that came in 4-1 without Leonard.

Watching the Pacers/Spurs game and the Pacers need to get rid of Lance Stephenson.  He can't play in this up tempo ball movement type of offense.  He stops the ball and thinks he has to do everything one on one and it clogs up the offense/

1 minute ago, Coach1K said:

My dad was saying the same thing on Buckner last night while watching the game.

He seems to get worse every year. A few weeks back I was watching an old IU game in the 92 tournament and Buckner was doing the game.  He did a very good job then but he is going downhill lately.

Also did anyone else get tire do the Pacers broadcast last night because Quinn Buckner is so annoying on the broadcast.  He was whining about every call last night and he cuts off the play by play guy all the time.  Also noticed that PG was his old self last night constantly whining to the officials last night.

8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

In all fairness, calling PG mentally soft and weak is just your subjective opinion, and one with which I could not disagree more. You don't have the numbers he's had, on both sides of the ball, you don't carry a team like he has, on both sides of the ball, and you don't dominate the playoffs, as he clearly has,  if you're mentally soft and weak. Hibbert, in stark contrast, was not mentally strong, it was his downfall, and it's too bad. Bird's moves were stupid, there's really no way around that, and it's why he ran out the door. The idea that the Thunder were dumb to trade for him, well, OK man. I guess when the Thunder go on their run, largely because of PG coupled with Westbrook, it will be just dumb luck. I don't really get why you go to such lengths to try to undermine what a clearly impactful player PG was and is, he is clearly regarded as one of the top players in the League, because he is. As a Pacers fan, maybe it's just time to move on without all the belittling stuff.

her in Indy there are a lot people around the team who disagree with about PG mentality.  The public address announcer for the Pacers and has a talk show talked about how PG was not mentally tough.  Heard one long time journalist Mark Montieth who said he always backed PG but looking at it that PG had one foot out the door every since he joined the pacers.

Last night you could tell that the Pacers were on the second night of a back to back.  Also with the Thunder being at home with time off you could expect a game like last night.  The Pacers played hard and was able to compete for  a couple of quarters but did not have the legs at the end to win.

47 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

By no means do I feel PG is clearly top 10. Top 20 maybe. Top 10 players are cold blooded assassins.  They want to be the man and more times than not PG was going through the motions. If he spent as much time getting back on defense as he did yapping with the refs after what he thought a missed call he would be all defensive team every year.  He is a good player that does not want to be the man.  Never hit a game winner.  I would take 2 guys with a chip on their shoulders that play hard and at least look like they want to be here.  I like PG But do not miss him for a second 

I lost respect for him the year he refused to play the 4.  To me as a player you do what is asked of you and not question the coach.

4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Haha, yeah 4 to the P's, my bad. 

Fwiw, I hope you and KoB end up being right about the P's -- I was disgusted with Bird, but I'm not meaning to hate on the P's, I just think they will end up winning somewhere in the range of 32-37 games, and will look a lot like Orlando. A team that lost its superstar, has some good players, but needs time to rebuild. Turner could end up being a legit all star, but he's not there yet. I hope he gets there.

I am not expecting a great team but so far this team is a lot more enjoyable to watch.  Also this team is easier to like because of the players on this years team.  I just was never a big fan of PG and his attitude on the court.  I hate seeing players whine to the officials on every call and a lot of times he would not get back on defense.

4 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Agree with this entirely.  Getting Westbrook to re-sign means the trade was totally worth it for the Thunder.  No way the Pacers “won” the trade, but it was significantly better for them than the “experts” said it was.  They were going to lose PG for nothing, and VO and Sabonas are good building blocks.  But PG is way more valuable than both of them combined.  His “intangibles” were enough to get the Pacers to two ECFs.  

As it is, I think the Pacers can compete for the 8 seed in the anemic East this season, but if you think they’re going to win 45-50 games, I’d like a little bit of whatever you’re smoking.

With PG last year we were pretty much out of it until the last 6 games of the season.

12 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I can't say at this point. PG made clear he wants to go "home" to pay for the Lakers. After the way Bird flubbed everyone and ruined the Pacers, I frankly cannot and do not blame PG for leaving, at all. No other franchise (well, maybe Sacramento....) would be so ridiculously stupid in the way they treat their franchise player. Bird is a self-centered, stubborn fool. Now if the Thunder end up excelling (after some gel time) and do well, I think PG could well stay with the Thunder -- he wants to win. As to what the Pacers got, I love Vic, probably my favorite Hoosier ever, but he's clearly not on PG's level, he's not a franchise player, and we're 3 games into an 82 game season. I hope he excels, I'm rooting for him, and I hope he works out for the Pacers, but the Pacers have more building to do.

Actually we are 4 games into the season but point taken.

14 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Well, no, I don't. We've gone through PG's stats several times now, he's a top 10 player and clearly played "like it" as a Pacer. Bird ruined the team, trading away or losing everyone (literally, everyone) around him and then bringing in Teague, another failed trade in dealing G Hill. PG was fully on track to taking Reggie's spot as the greatest Pacer ever. You don't like his personality, I get it, but I couldn't disagree with you more on his impact, and there isn't a team in the League that wouldn't love to have him.

No offense intended, but your thinking this is a 45-50 win team shows your fandom, my friend. This is not a 45-50 win team. We're 3 games into an 82 game season. Butler didn't play with the Wolves, and it's one regular season game. I'm not rooting for the Pacers to fail, but I'm certainly not going to see them as one of the better teams in the League, they're not. They may end up middle of the pack. Happy to compare notes at the end of the season.

As to whether PG works with the Thunder, way too early to tell. I wasn't that high on Melo being added to the Thunder, but it's also way too early to tell if that will work. Russ, PG and Melo are all high usage guys who are used to playing the key role in crunch time. That team could be a top 3-5 team, in the West, and it also could end up failing. It will be interesting to watch how the Thunder develop. 

Turner didn't play either so that evens it out.  I think you are blinded by your loyality to PG to see what kind of player he is. Yes his stats were great but he did not have any intangibles that helps teams win games.

lets look at the Pacers this year compared to last year.

PG Teague vs Collison- I would take Collison in this matchup

2G Ellis vs VO- VO a lot better

SF George vs BArnovich(?) - PG by a land slide

PF Young-same

C Turner same

Bench this years team has a better bench

So looking at it his way I think this years team is not that much different than last year.

7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You see the irony of you telling me my fandom has the better of my judgment regarding PG, right? PG was a whiner, not a winner in Indy. It's why PG clearly performed below his talent level and why the team did. 

This team? Clearly less talent but they have the look of a team that can win 45-50 games because of how hard they play every night. 

I know I enjoy watching this team a lot better than the last few years.  if some how we could get rid of Lance then I would totally love this team.  There will be ups and downs with this team but it will be enjoyable to watch..  They move the ball and the players move instead of just getting the ball to PG and let him try to make a play.

17 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Where did you hear that news about Hayward’s injury?  3-4 months would have him back by March.

I thought I heard that he broke the Tibia as well and that should take 9-12 months to come back from.

It was only pre season but the Pacers really played well last night. Last night we had good Lance and he really looked good and hopefully we see that all year.