ADegenerate

Love that runner to the left off the board. Great addition to the arsenal.

Lebron with 17/10/2 before the half and you could argue that he’s had a B- type half.

You guys catch Horford flinching at the FT the other game then trolling and faking it on TT ft?! 

Awesome

6 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Wow the witnesses sure are sensitive. 

😛 I just think we’re right and you and 6 are saying I’m aggressive and senisitive because you can’t dispute my arguments.

scotts right though. 1a and 1b is the best way to look at it. 

7 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Spaces, paragraphs and whatever my man. I didn't say he was horrible. Ease up on the defensive nature...normal discourse but it seems you've been on attack mode lately. Enjoy the day!

Definitely wasn’t in attack mode. I just don’t buy into the hating on lebron and Durant. If I came off aggressive it’s because I have strong opinions in it. Anyway, we’re all Hoosiers here and if we disagree that’s great and we can talk about it. 

Im having a good day. I got all the yard work done and now it’s relaxtion mode. Hope you’re having a nice day.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheHerd/status/862404404338544640/video/1

Wanna talk about super friends? Google Michael Jordan record without pippen. (Its 1-9)

the year Jordan missed the bulls still should have won it all. Pippen averaged 22, 9, and 6 with 3 steals. Jordan had a B-B+ version of lebron his entire career..except when he didn’t and couldn’t win a game in the playoffs. But 6-0 right?

@dbmhoosier

54 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Only replying as you tagged me. I understand where you're coming from, and there's definitely an issue with playing with Westbrook. Harden left and became League MVP. Vic left and became an All Star. Westbrook really is something of an enigma, back to back triple double seasons, assists at a high level, but is nonetheless extremely ball dominant and has missed more shots than anyone, takes more shots I think than anyone, and dominates at the end of games and in key games instead of facilitating.

All that said, the problem with Durant is not that he left, it's that he joined the already ridiculously loaded Warriors because he could not beat them and wanted a ring. Listen to what Lillard said about that, and any number of other players -- but Lillard tends not to hold back. And asked if he would join the Warriors, Lillard: "Hell no." There are guys like Lillard, and then there are guys like Durant. Skill level here is irrelevant, it's the lame join the team that beat you that people, including myself, find disgusting. It's weak. It's also incredibly disrespectful to Oklahoma City, the fanbase, run to the team that just beat you.

Had he come back the next year and fought to beat GS -- you know, with the team that was 1 game away from doing that -- people would view him very differently. 

We’ve both said our pieces and I think we both have valid reasons for how we perceive Durant (obviously I loved the Lebron move to Miami when that happened). To each their own. I’ll say this though I can’t wait to watch Lilliard go absolutely nowhere for the rest of his career. Let’s see how far that ego takes ya pal.

2 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Lebron is not the GOAT.  The honor goes to MJ by a mile.  I'd take Bird or Kobe over Lebron.

Good for you. That’s ridiculous.

People talk out of both sides of their mouth on this one too. You get crapped on if you don’t win titles. You get crapped on if you leave and win a title. It’s absurd. I’d call it ambition by leaving and trying to win while bettering your life. 

7 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Big factor for me...and I think plenty.  No way in the world I think Durant ends even in top 30 conversation (if he continues same clip). 

Why is that a big factor for you? That line of thinking is a silly macho man egotistical way of thinking that annoys me. He’s a grown man with his own life to lead. He owes nothing to anyone. Why does he have to force himself to be miserable and stick to a losing situation where he doesn’t like his coach or his teammates just to look like a competitor to you? Does anyone look happy with Westbrook? George, kd, melo, Ibaka, harden, oladipo? You wanna love in a city where there’s not much room for financial growth or live in the hotbed of growth that’s Silicon Valley? You wanna play on a team that’s not fun to play with or play with a team that could go down as the best that’s ever been and win 2-7 titles? There’s free agency for a reason. You don’t have to stay in a shitty situation just to look like a tough guy. That’s nonsense. It’s not a chickenshit move it’s logical, legal, and even admirable because he’ll be vilified when he shouldn’t be. Like I said to each there own and if that’s your line of thinking then fine but personally I think it’s extremely archaic. Respectfully disagree here of course.

@Hoosierhoopster

7 minutes ago, rico said:

Bernard King and Alex English.

Both those guys are in Rico. Neither have a ring as well.

1 minute ago, rico said:

It is what it is.  The media will never shut up on it.......at least right now.  BTW, I can name 2 players better than KD that aren't in HoF(?).

Yeah, this hot take media nonsense shouldn’t last but another 5 years I reckon. Young people are too savy to put up with that bull. 

Hmmmm. Who’s that? 

4 minutes ago, rico said:

Well you aint the media.

You’ve got a very good point there. I think that’s beyond ridiculous. There’s free agency for a reason. In Europe they call it ambition when you want to win titles and don’t dish out ridicule for forcing yourself to stay in a bad situation. What’s the issue? You want to win?! Shame shame shame on you for bettering your situation! Tsk tsk no no don’t do that. It’s beyond ridiculous. So you’re drafted to Sacramento and you’re a top 10 player now, maybe top 3 in year 4...no you can’t leave! You’re too good. 

1 minute ago, rico said:

It is a factor everybody looks at.

I don’t.

2 minutes ago, rico said:

Meh, he is 29.  Switched teams to get the ring.  

Fair enough if that’s a factor for you. To each their own.

10 minutes ago, rico said:

No, it ain't gonna happen.

Whys that? He’s still in his 20s with an MVP and a ring while scoring 27.1 a game. He’s a decent rim protector now too. Wades on 22 pg and got his 3 rings with Shaq and lebron (granted that Shaq team was clearly his).

Durant would lead the league in scoring by a wide margin every year if he didn’t play with Russ and on this stacked warriors squad. I think he ends up top 10. 

The rockets really gonna pull this off? I’d like to see it. Dantoni deserves a ring before he goes out IMO.

We’ll get back to this later. EJ on fire! 8 already.

4 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

I think it's great for discussion and that's what most of us like to do. The one thing I've never understood is that somehow the Lebron crowd almost is feeling slighted as the 2nd greatest ever (if you think he is). 

I'm a Lebron fan. I think he's a freak. And I definitely think he belongs in that top 3-4 conversation...he and Kobe are probably neck and neck with Lebron having the edge. To me though best ever is Jordan. Stats, titles, defensive player aside, changed the league, changed the networks..he was carrying the torch that Bird/Magic started and took to another level.......just something about Jordan. His will, determination, mental toughness.....Lebron has all those too. I just think Jordan has a little more.

I feel bad that people can't just appreciate greatness. It's almost like debating Willie Mays vs Mickey Mantle. Or Tom Brady vs Joe Montana. Or Jack vs Arnie and the list goes on..

I think Lebron people get defensive because we’ve been putting up with bs fake news from the talking heads for about a decade now. The arrogance that comes out of some of these so called experts mouth when the debate comes up used to really make my blood boil. He wasn’t even halfway into his career and a few finals losses ended the debate in some pundits mind. You had that fake bullshit about Kobe being better than him and Kobe being clutch when in all actuality his numbers were terrible in crunch time (think it’s last two of the fourth?). You had that fake news about Lebron lacking the clutch gene. You had the nonsense about him not being a closer and him defering to Wade in late game situations. You had the nonsense about him being afraid to attack the rim because he’s afraid to shoot free throws in late game situations. 

You got the 6-0 argument thrown in your face when the teams Jordan beat don’t stack up to those warriors or spurs teams. They never talk about the four first round defeats or the fact that he has a losing record in close out games for Jordan. They ignore the fact that he had one of the greatest coaches in history, one of the best two way players in Pippen, one of the best defenders in history in Rodman, and extremely solid players in Kukoch, grant, Armstrong, etc. He had knockdown three point shooters in Kerr + Paxon too. You had that silliness about how tough the defense was back then and how the game isn’t the same. I could go on but I hunk that’s enough.

(What also doesn’t get brought up is that little hiatus Jordan took when we all suspect he had to take a nap because of the gambling. We don’t talk about that because he’s God Tier and to question Jordan is insanity.)

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My top 10 would be

1a) Jordan

2b) Lebron

3) Magic

4) Bird

5) Kareem

6) Russell

7) Wilt

8- Oscar

9) Duncan

10) Hakeem

I am doing this off the top of my head so I am probably leaving some one obvious off but I think it is pretty close.  To me the next tier would be Kobe, Karl Malone, Stockton, Iverson.

 

I’m so confused. We’re in 100% agreement for the first time ever! I like the 1a - 1b shout. That’s very fair.

It’s no surprise at all to me that Hoosier fans give Lebron the fair credit and respect he deserves. 

4 minutes ago, rico said:

The Bird Celtics were around his age if not older(Parrish).  Bird's back had nothing to do with it.  The Lakers were a better franchise back then.

I meant more of in a top 5 who’s better if bird didn’t have a bad back. I’ve got magic over him but was curious if the back would have changed that.

1 minute ago, rico said:

Yes it was......put the NBA on the map.

I caught the tail end of magic + bird era, an injured bird for me too being born in 84. Bird have him beat if not for the back or still magic? @Hoosierhoopster

2 minutes ago, PoHoosier said:

I was wondering when Bird would join the conversation.  You know he belongs on the list when MJ and Magic both have him in their top 5.

I’ve got him over Kobe personally.

@KoB2011 @FW_Hoosier @Hoosierhoopster

I also watched Jordan live a few times and saw both. Lebron is already the goat for me. Is it kind of impossible to debate? Maybe/kinda. For me Lebron is the best. I feel like people aged 30-40 are the ‘best judges’ because they grew up as Jordan kids and have seen the league in both eras. 

People want to talk about 6-0. How about 6-7 in elimination games. ‘Take that for data!’