IUCrazy2

Yuck

Reneau

https://btownbanners.com/topic/14310-fire-coach-woodson/?do=findComment&comment=860511 All the red flags are starting to show up..... ETA: This is merely a rumor. Nothing set in stone. Don't construe it as "Trey is gone". That being said, how many times have we been right here the past 20 years? This type of stuff has never ended well for the coach it was swirling around. That is what is driving my negativity towards another Woodson year. If this is a huge roster turnover year, I have zero faith he can get the necessary pieces portal shopping to do much more next year than he has this. If we are going to have a complete rebuild, just go get the next guy. Your bridge just collapsed.

Yippee. Honestly I hope Woody pulls a rabbit out of a hat and we finally get a good year because I am beyond tired of mediocre to sh** basketball. And if this ends up going about how I think it will next year and we retain him, I hope Dolson gets fired with him.

You are more patient and forgiving then I. I would force him out specifically because I don't think he has it and in sports I don't believe in "fair".

I think all of that may be 100% dead on and it leads me to believe that is the reason I don't want Mike doing the roster overhaul and rebuild this summer. I don't want to dump more resources and time into a 66 year old that is just now learning that college isn't the NBA. That is year one stuff, not year four. How long do you think it takes him to figure out? 1 to 3 years? So say at 69 he has maybe had 1 or 2 more one and dones in the tournament along with a miss or two, but now he has got things figured out...at 69. Does anyone think Mike is coaching until he is 75? I don't. The type of investment you are describing is the type of investment you make in a younger, up and coming coach. Not a 66 year old. Mike didn't have time to figure out that the NBA is different from college. He needed to come in knowing that. So he sits looking into year 4 on a massive downward trajectory with 1 HS recruit currently committed and looking at needing to hit a whole bunch of home runs in the portal to even begin to start turning things around. I think you add his issues listed above to that most likely reality and you sit down and tell him, "I think if you had more time that this could work out, but how much longer are you really wanting to do this because I don't feel we have another 3 years for you to get yourself situated to the college game and this upcoming year looks really concerning from where I sit..." He needs to retire.

Yeah but we had 3 things that overrode that. No one was making that argument then.

Indiana has shown over the past 2 decades that they are more than willing to collect money for bad play until they get embarrassed by the fans. Indiana fans are "toxic" because this school ALWAYS goes one more year.

I have a 15 year old (since we are talking about teenagers). We have been pretty inferior to Purdue over his lifetime. How inferior? Purdue is 20-9 against Indiana over his lifetime. 4 of the 9 wins were 2012 and 2013. We won 4 in a row. We won 2 more last year. We split in 2016 and 2022. Our success this century was Mike Davis. He brings us closer to even but they still have a 23 to 19 advantage. So anyone less than 24 years old is likely going to view them as the better program. It really isn't even arguable. As to the NIL, you know what has helped drive that right? Fans who experienced success. Anyone less than 40, if they are being honest, isn't viewing modern Indiana as on some plane above Purdue. We're we when Knight was here? Absolutely. But that is ancient history at this point. It is a fun data point like the Branch McCracken teams are to me. Nice history but I didn't experience it and really I am more interested in the here and now than I am somebody my Grandpa watched play. Everything that you point to as making this a good program is on life support right now. People are pointing out to you the warning signs and you got your fingers in your ears. This program is in big trouble if they don't turn things around soon.

I think the negative sentiment is higher on that site than here. And those of us who are trending negative here tend to soft sell that because it really bothers some people.

Maryland is a good parallel to what has happened at Indiana. Sometimes, new guy or not, if you start to fall off, the previous guy's poor results end up clouding how people view you. The "Here we go again..." phenomenon is very real.

Use your 3 items to explain what Woodson has going for him going into year 4. I think there are more than those 3, but defend him based on the 3. I think that is the criteria I would judge him on.

That is how fans talk. Don't show up to boo. Just don't show up. The season is over unless this team wins the BTT. That means none of these 7 remaining games really matter one way or the other.

That same guy would probably tell you no one wants Indiana. A benefit of Ohio State is that most fans don't give a crap about basketball and their football team prints its own money. Our admin has tarnished Indiana's rep.

How much you willing to bet Michigan looks for a new guy at the end of the year too. What is the likelihood we are standing around here 4 years from now saying, "Man, if we had moved on Woodson sooner we could have had..." Groundhog Day

We are about to enter the season where talking heads will express how awful this fan base is. If only we could be a better group of fans like those at Purdue. Purdue fans:

They don't exist basically yes, or they don't exist in near the same numbers. Basically it boils down to this: Indiana as an institution continues to make bad decisions and they have done that for basically my entire adult life. Bob Knight was fired my senior year at IU. Almost 25 years later I am being told by a bit player on a decade old team who played for a guy who was 3 coaches ago that I just need to accept that this program isn't going to be good anymore. So I am saying, "OK, fine. However, here is what that means..." Pick random dude from the IU football team from the early 2010's. I am not walking across the street to hear his opinion about IU football because the program hasn't done enough to make me care about talking about that much, let alone listen to anyone about it. You don't pay multi-million dollar buyouts to get new coaches when you just accept that we are mediocre. You keep Archie Miller. You don't fill stadiums with crowds to follow a mediocre team. You get the 10,000 diehards who are just happy to be there and a few thousand others looking for an event who got a deal on tickets. Basically the basketball version of Memorial Stadium in the fall. You don't have 1 million people on Twitter talking about your program. You have a third of that, if you are lucky. You don't have people willing to pony up to give 18 year old kids 6 figure salaries. You don't have a huge media presence touting how "awesome" you are every summer. If I need to accept that we are just a bunch of mediocre losers then I hope that the University and the cottage industry mouthpieces for that actually get to experience what that means. TL/DR - In the program Elston is painting a picture of, nobody hears his opinion because half the fans barely remeber who the ---- he is, let alone give a rat's hind end about his opinion.

Just so I am clear, I need to be patient with a coach who is going to turn 66 next month that is going to have to do another complete roster overhaul in year 4. A coach who after 3 years has 1, 1 incoming freshman committed to join his program. Can someone explain to me how this isn't basically starting over from scratch and then explain to me why it is somehow better to completely hit reset on year 4 of a 66 year old coach then it is to just go get another guy who actually has time to build a program? Seriously, Woodson is looking at an almost complete roster overhaul and he has to reboot the system (or lack thereof) that he has been implementing for the past 3 years. And then we have year one type of discussions all over again next year. "Well, I have 8 new guys that we need to get playing together. I just need to get them over the hump...." And really, I am dumb for thinking it matters. Everything about Indiana has been inept for most of my adult life. Elston is probably right, I need to break the habit I developed as a child of being invested in this stuff and just start treating it like IU football has been for me. Catch it when you can and when they suck, oh well....

There is an entire cottage industry built up around Indiana basketball that only exists at like a handful of places. Do you see players from Minnesota who played over a decade ago on a podcast with a teammate talking about what Minnesota needs to do? Who is the Northwestern Todd Leary? Jim Coyle? Where is the equivalent to this site, BTB, Peegs, and Rivals fan support for Penn State basketball? My point is that all the people that come out of the woodwork complaining about the fans being toxic have no voice if they actually got the fan support they want. There are about 40,000 people that have showed up for decades and cheered on Indiana football and that hasn't helped a damn thing. And next to no one talks about it because people who aren't invested don't care

I don't know if you want it but I won't be surprised if you get it. You have 2 guys that think they are pros now. Several graduating and several who are going into their third year who just heard their coach say, "We need to go get some guys" after their last loss. If I am Gunn and Banks I hear that loud and clear and I am out.

I don't have enough time to truly address this at the moment, but I swear to everything that is good and holy that I hope all the "you fans suck and are the reason we can't win" people would get the support that truly means. If everyone at the school and around the program has bought into the idea that this program is Minnesota and should be treated like it, then that means it should get a bunch more indifference from the fans as opposed to the ungodly amount of support and money it receives in contrast to the wins and entertainment it delivers. Things that let people like Derek Elston have a podcast because lord knows guys like him don't at the type of program he wants Indiana to apparently be.

At least the ladies know how to handle business. The guys should go learn something.

Honestly, I refer back to what I said above. When you lose, I don't think anyone should get to be the MVP. Everybody sucked last night.

Doesn't sound like it to me. He is going to want to prove that this year was a fluke.

I can't lower my donation any lower than it has been for over a decade. I even stopped buying the IU license plate with its paltry $25 donation to the school.