DC2345

22 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I’m a Larry fan. He did a difficult thing. He presided over the Pacers transition from one era to another without the benefit of high draft picks from one era to another. 

After all, he was smart enough to draft Paul George.  George wasn’t a first or second pick.  He went tenth.  He was Larry’s guy.  That was not his only good move.  He was also coach in their heyday.  

People see the way he comes across—the grammar or whatever—but that’s not reasonably related to his intelligence.  It’s a byproduct of his upbringing and the opportunities he had.  I’m not going to defend Larry over every nitpick but this is a guy who is sharp when it comes to basketball.  And he’s a legit, highest level superstar yet in my family’s interactions with him, he’s phenomenally generous with fellow Hoosiers. I have the highest regard for Larry.  

He had some good moves but he also had some really bad. He didn't ever do much via trade or free agency other than West and then Ellis who was washed up. Larry was a great player, really good coach, and an ok gm.

3 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

well I wouldn't either but there was a 3 year stretch that they were close and he chose not too. 11/12, 12/13 and 13/14

That was also Larry in charge then too who didn't ever look to make any kind of splashy move.

2 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

I saw reports of Simon tired of first round exits as well, however, this has been more recent then say when they went to the ECFs with PG, West, Hibbert, etc in 2012/2013.  Simon has said he would be willing to spend, however, the chances of that happening is very slim if you don't consistently hit on your first rd draft picks and navigating away from injuries(can't predict or prevent these like Indy has seen in recent years dating back to Danny G) so there has been no reason to spend money if you miss on talent in 1st rd.    Yes they have signed free agents ala David West, Monte Ellis(WOOF), Bojan(good signing), etc.  Brogdon I am not including cause we shipped draft picks out for him.  So David West is our best Free Agent signing in the last dozen years or so I'd say.  

Simon has not went into the luxury tax to try and get to a title.  12-13 and 13-14 they went to the ECF and lost both times(they hit on their recent drafts ala Hibbert, PG, Lance and spent money on West, Scola and traded for George Hill on draft night.  They could have been one player away from beating Lebron and the Heat had they spent a little more in free agency to help the bench.    

I wouldn't go into the luxary tax either if the team wasn't close to title contention which they really haven't been. 

2 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

D'Antoni to have 2nd interview with Pacers.  

Also, like we have heard for the last 3 or 4 years, Jrue Holiday linked as a trade candidate to the Pacers.  Not sure he fits here assuming Vic stays.  Vic would need to be traded for Jrue to make his way to Indy so assume Vic is trade(not sure where) and My guess would be Indy would send Myles and Doug to Pelicans for Jrue and their 1st rd pick for this year.  Jrue is listed at "SG" but can play both PG and SG.  

That is to be expected that D'Antoni would get a second interview. That said I haven't seen it reported anywhere. I would expect the final 5 or 6 candidates who get second interviews to include D'Antoni, Billups, Ham, Bjorkgren, and (Quinn or Craig or maybe both).

Dave Joerger and Chris Finch are also in the mix. Woj just called Joerger a strong candidate in the process. 

1 hour ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Bird left Pritchard to clean up his mess.  Simon is content with yearly 1st rd exits, spending just enough money to get at the salary cap and putting fans in the seat. Did PG want to leave sure, however, it’s ownerships fault 💯 this time. Now for Vic and the current situation only time will tell. 
 

Pritchard is taking action(during Nate, asking players their opinions on what they want to see in their next coach, etc), however, did he wait to long with Nate? We shall see(my mom opinion is yes). Whoever this next coach is will be key. If it’s D’Antoni we’re playing small ball and you can all but guarantee Myles is gone so we operate with one Center. If it’s someone else, maybe it works with Sabonis and Myles who knows. 

You're wrong about some of that. I know Pritchard said it was his decision but there were to many people saying that Simon was tired of first round exits and wanted Nate gone. If the Pacers would be close to a championship I suspect Simon would pay the tax for a year or maybe two but the roster hasn't been to that point. 

1 hour ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Actually PG did say the following:

 

"I'm under contract as a Pacer" he said.  "That's all that needs to really be known.  I'm here.  I'm a Pacer.  Again, what I have been dealing with is stories.  You guys talking or teams talking.  I'm a Pacer.  There is no way around that.  THis is my team, my group and this is where I'm at".  

Similar yes but there is a difference and it's the most important. Vic was still in the building and working in the weight room as recently as yesterday. That said he could still be on the move if the front office sees it's the right move. 

1 minute ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

true unlike PG(maybe he did, I cannot remember or he danced around the rumors).  

PG didn't. He did however lie to Pritchard and say he wanted to stay and then a week later demanded a trade. This is a whole different situation. 

1 minute ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Interesting all of the rumors are flying around. 

At least he did his best to squash them. He said he's focused on staying in the background, working out, continue with his rehab, and get right for next season.

Vic has finally commented on the trade talk. He stated on his instagram that "I'm a Pacer" and that he doesnt know where the rumors originated from. 

4 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

I saw the news about Hayward building a house in Fishers and that he's open to playing at home.  I agree that Nate never allowed talent to develope.  Niang is a small sample size, rotational player off of the bench for the Jazz this year, maybe Leaf could turn into that, however, I am not getting my hopes up about this.  I think Goga takes a big step forward this upcoming season.  

 

I'd welcome Gordon, he'd start at the 3.  So lets assume Vic and Myles are gone you have Aaron/Brogdon/Hayward/Warren/Sabonis(yes I have Aaron here as both he and Brogdon can switch both PG and SG positions).  Right now your bench is McConnell(if option is picked up)/Lamb/McDerrmott/Leaf/Goga.  Now I think you can improve your bench via trades through Vic and Myles.  Net a vet SG in return that can start, slide Aaron back to the bench and then go find a stretch 4 vet.  Allow for draft pick players in either trade to develop and may strike gold if we can get a first rd pick from each trade involving Vic and Myles.  If we could somehow poach Jarret Culver away from Minny in a trade for Vic I'd be estatic.  I think Culver can be a tough 2 way SG/SF.  

Minny is a team I could see interested in Vic. If you get Culver that's great. As for Hayword if we trade Turner for him then either Lamb or McDermott will have to be included to match salary and then their will need to be other rotation players added to the bench. I also think Justin Holliday should be brought back for the bench as well if possible. 

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

I can imagine a bunch of teams are interested in Myles and Vic.  The question is the return.  vic coming off injury and averaging 14.5, he just isn't going to get the return you would really hope for.  

Myles, as we all know has his strengths and weaknesses.  Maybe in the right system with the right complimentary pieces he can be himself.  I remember he was taking ballet or yoga or something, he has tried so hard to improve quickness to guard on the wing and be a true stretch four.  Maybe the pacers find someone to bite big but I think the fear and overall consuming thought is, because we know these guys better than many of the national writers, the returns won't be great.  

I think you'll be surprised. The national guys are getting their information from somewhere. 

1 hour ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

With how the Pacers front office and owners are operating, the only way to get big name guys(PG/Victor/Sabonis) is either through the draft or get lucky in a trade(See PG trade).  We all know the Pacers history with drafts, mostly the last oh I dunno say 10 years have been short of average in terms of a return each year IMO with the exception of Myles Turner, Aaron Holiday(after 3 years IMO we can safely determine if this pick was good or not), etc.  

 

Now you need to spend money to win, plain and simple.  OR get lucky and hit on a draft class and get great talent on cheap contracts and sprinkle around some very good veterans and an all star or two, aka Miami.  The Simons need to spend some extra money then be content a few million short of entering the luxury tax or salary cap limit and being content with consistent playoff appearances year in and year out while having 1st rd exits every year.  

 

I do not think the Pacers should offer Vic a max contract.  I love Vic and always will, however, more times than not he's a volume scorer, 4 or 5 boards per game and 3 or 4 assists per game at best.  Yes he brings heart, energy and solid defense, however, factoring all of that into the equation plus a max contract at say $33 mil or whatever it is, that is setting a team/franchise up for failure.  If Vic goes, I think you need to build around Sabonis, Warren, Brogdon and Aaron Holiday.  You'll get decent assets in return for Vic, heck maybe even a 1st rd pick.  

 

All I am saying, as a 7 going on 8 year season ticket holder for the pacers it's the same thing every year.  1st rd exits come playoff time.  Roll with Brogdon/Warren/Sabonis/Holiday, sprinkle in your returns from flipping Vic and Myles(oh I dunno 2 1st rd picks) and add some solid vets to the squad and I think we are right back at a 4 seed.    

The Pacers if they want could add Gordon Hayword this offseason or next. I think he could get back to all star form when he isn't the 4th or 5th option. Word is he is open to coming home. He is building a house in Fishers currently as well. Other than him the Pacers have got to find ways to get draft picks or young players and actually develop those players which Nate McMillan refused to do. To go with that my prediction for this coming year is that if the right coach is hired TJ Leaf will become an impactful bench stretch 4 at least. Nate never gave him any time to develop and it showed. 

9 hours ago, BGleas said:

The picks don’t impact the cap space in the trade. 

I get that and pretty much ever person who has said the Celtics have interest in trading for Turner and giving up Hayword has said the Celtics would have to include draft capital or young assets. That said it's all speculation at this point and as many as 10 teams or more are interested in Turner alone. 

Sounds like Doc Rivers will be the coach in Philadelphia. Possibly as soon as tonight.

On 9/29/2020 at 9:03 PM, BGleas said:

The Celtics would throw picks in for Vic/Turner, not for Turner and McDerrmot or Lamb. Hayward is an expiring deal next summer, so the Celtics would actually be taking back more years and long term money. 

Ainge would throw one in simply because the Celtics have so many picks and don’t need more rookies though. 

You’re wrong about that. They would because they need the cap space and they want Turner. 

42 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

What I find funny is that i heard part of the reason they let go of McMillian was that th eplayers were not happy with his offense.  I figured one of those olayers were VO and since they let the coach go I swould think it would make him happy.

Victor has his eyes set on other things. If it's not Vic directly it's people in his ear. 

Trade Scenarios involving the Celtics that work for salary reasons and not including picks

Vic and Turner for Hayword and Langford

Turner and Mcdermott/Lamb for Hayword 

In these scenarios the Celtics would likely throw in a pick or two to offset Hayword's salary and yes they would be willing to do it. They have to clear up cap space. The Pacers likely won't be trading Holiday either unless he doesn't fit what the new coach wants.

Also word around the league is that Hayword is much more willing to come home to the Pacers than he has been in the past.

Myles and Vic will both be gone. Things can change when a new coach is hired but it's unlikely. One thing that could be a reason for Vic wanting out is the Pacers might not be willing to give him a max contract. Which would be a smart move by the front office. 

The Pacers are going to start their second round of in person interviews here soon. They've likely been waiting for most of the teams to get finished with the in the bubble to move on to that round. 

10 hours ago, BGleas said:

I thought Kenny Atkinson did a phenomenal job in Brooklyn. I’m still not sure what happened there. Is there something about him I’m missing?

He’d be a good hire. 

The Pacers have been doing background work on Atkinson. 

3 minutes ago, rico said:

That would be a HR hire for the Pacers.

Shams said that the Pacers are interviewing about 12 candidates and then cutting the list. So that means not everyone on that initial list by Woj interviewed. It was also said that Chauncey wasn't going to interview until the in person interviews started. 

Donovan interviewed with the Pacers last week. 

Billy Donovan could be coaching in the hoosier state.... 

16 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Probably wouldn't hurt to get at least one quality big guy.  Still wouldn't mind a Hayward for Turner trade

Wouldn’t mind it. The salary for Hayward could be a problem though. The Pacers are going to be open for business in trades this offseason since they don’t have any cap space. 

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes I understand. I'm not generally big on hiring first-time player coaches. Jackson may or may not get along with the P's front office, and again my understanding is it had something to do with his religious fervor, that was reported loosely at some point. Beyond that I'm not sure. First time player coaches sometimes work and sometimes don't, e.g., Jason Kidd, etc. The P's are whiffing lately on coaches, going with a completely unproven guy at this point is not my first choice.

This time arounf gives me more hope since they are actually doing a real coaching search. They aren't just hiring someone because it's convenient.