OSU Post Game Thread

[ColtsIUDomer]

3 hours ago, rico said:

Winning cures everything.  

This. x50.

Bates hits one of those 3's in last 2 minutes i'm a happy camper today.  I liked that he took those shots at that point, I really thought both were going in.  Yea, the OT sucked butt.   I didn't think we'd miss Rob like we seem to.

I bet the roster looks a lot different next year but not a total shakedown, I say Bates and geronimo break thru, and Galloways jumper continues to take form. Woody's old, like me, he's got no time to be fartin around with this thing. New recruits, the portal, we will upgrade I bet.  

I think my brain has moved on to next year already. I'm feeling much more optimistic at this point than I thought i would. Maybe it's the 2pm tequila shots, maybe it's that my MMadness Vegas trip is closer. 

 

[IUCrazy2]

9 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I did not watch last night and may decide not to watch again until the BTT.  So, I cant weigh in about how we let last night get away.

But, it does seem that, over the last few years, we come from ahead to lose significantly more games down the stretch than we come from behind to win.  

For me, that points more to a lack of on-court leadership than it does coaching. 

Bob Knight didn't design a play to get the ball to Keith Smart in '87, despite Smart carrying the team down the stretch of that game up until that point.  The play was designed for Alford.

But, when Daryl Thomas got the pass, he recognized he personally wasn't going to get a good shot off.  Throw that same pass today and TJD forces up a bad shot.  And, Smart knew better than to stand and watch.  He cut to give Thomas a passing angle.  None of our wing players would do that today.

This group of players does not do things like that.  And, I refuse to believe it's the coaching.  The players lack the commitment to be great.  We saw that with the Windy City 5.  And, doesnt that loss look huge right now.

That is coaching though.  Knight talks about that play in at least one of his books.  They coached the guys to know their roles and to be able to make plays without having to be told explicitly what to do each time.  He said that was one of the best examples of the team following what they had been taught to do in his career.

If the players are standing around as much as they do it is because A)they are told to do that or B)they have been told to do something else but there is no repercussions for not following instructions.  Both of which relate to coaching.

I think it is problematic when 2 of the 3 assistants on your bench are more likely there to recruit as opposed to anything else....getting the guys is important but you have to be able to do something with them after you get them there too.

[tdhoosier]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

I can't speak to that, but when Ohio State was down, was there an adjustment Holtmann made? 

Like I said, I don't know the finer points of coaching, and I've always liked your analysis of the Xs and Os...

But I watch a lot of Big 10 basketball and it seems to me that the coaches of the top teams rely more on getting it into the hands of their playmaker at crunch time and letting them make a play...

Or am I wrong on that?

I haven’t seen as many games as you - I am sure. But against us the coaches seem to have been getting their best player (co-best player) in isolation and the best player has delivered. That’s why they are the best. The commonality is that those best players are guards or wings. Our best player (and co best player) are post players who we can’t isolate. 

I’m trying to remember the context about what Jim Jackson was saying last night. I believe he was talking about why the emergence of Branham was so important - because OSU couldn’t keep going into Liddell at the end of games. It’s hard for a post player to be your closer because it’s too easy for the defense to sink down on them. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by tdhoosier

[Artesian_86]

48 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Sour grapes...Dan's right about one thing...as IU's coach, he wasn't good enough...

The difference between us and Illinois is Trent Frazier. The difference between us and Purdue is Jaden Ivey. The difference between us and Wisconsin is Johnny Davis. The difference between us and Ohio State last night was Malaki Branham. Those teams the after time go to those players and get good play down the stretch...

We don't have that...yet...

Our best player is a post-up guy that's not going to be able to create anything outside the block. 

I'm as tired of waiting for IU basketball to be great again as anybody...but jumping ship on this coach is wayyyy premature...

Well said IUFLA!!!! This should be a mic drop post.

I'm going to say this till I'm blue in the face. This is year one with a brand new coach, new assistants as well as new portal players. I feel most people who are practically jumping ship are not looking at the entire, overall picture. Most successful and established coaches have been watching some kids before high school. Woodson had to pick up players on the fly and try to fill a need. Coach Woodson also hasn't had the privilege of watching and following guys for 3 or 4 years.

[IUFLA]

6 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I haven’t seen as many games as you - I am sure. But against us the coaches seem to have been getting their best player (co-best player) in isolation and the best player has delivered. That’s why they are the best. The commonality is that those best players are guards or wings. Our best player (and co best player) are post players who we can’t isolate. 

I’m trying to remember the context about what Jim Jackson was saying last night. I believe he was talking about why the emergence of Branham was so important - because OSU couldn’t keep going into Liddell at the end of games. It’s hard for a post player to be your closer because it’s too easy for the defense to sink down on them. 

Exactly...

One other thing from last night...

To be "The Man" you have to want to be "The Man." You have to want to take those shots at the end...

And although he missed two 3s that would have more than likely put the game out of reach, Tamar Bates wanted to take those shots, and did with confidence. I know "he missed!" but I think in the near future he will be one of those 3 level scorers that is a tough cover for other teams...He's not afraid of the moment...But he has to gain experience in those situations...And to be honest, I don't think those misses shook his confidence one bit...

[Billingsley99]

Caller into DD show says the reason that Johnson grabbed EJ crotch was he was looking for a ball he couldn't turnover. Not gonna lie made me laugh

[Zuckerkorn]

14 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Caller into DD show says the reason that Johnson grabbed EJ crotch was he was looking for a ball he couldn't turnover. Not gonna lie made me laugh

On a semi-serious note, is it explicitly illegal to reach for the basketball via that route or did XJ do a little "grabbin' & tuggin'"?

[When I saw the replay, I immeditely thought of the wrestling move " checkin' his oil" ]

[Purdue7]

Anyone who doesn’t want TJD & Race back is an idiot.

You played O$U even with 6 players because those 2 set a physical tone especially on defense 

[addictedtoIU]

17 hours ago, Cbp4IU said:

I’ll ask the question:

You are Mike Woodson… This off-season do you blow the roster up (Crean them) and restart with a whole new crew or run it back 1 more year with basically the same results then maybe sneak in. 

I think a few guys may need to go and a few will graduate or go pro. Then, it would automatically be a roster blow-up. It's necessary. I think a guy like CMW wouldn't worry about it too much because he's here for the long haul and is building a sustainable culture. This season is a bit disappointing, and I'm seriously losing my faith in IU basketball; I feel like all the emotional beat-ups over the last 2 decades finally took a toll on me. Part of me still don't and can't understand why IU basketball is so cursed, but reality is reality. This program should be built from the ground up again. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by addictedtoIU

[Bushmage]

33 minutes ago, Purdue7 said:

Anyone who doesn’t want TJD & Race back is an idiot.

You played O$U even with 6 players because those 2 set a physical tone especially on defense 

I dont think its that ridiculous to not want TJD back. He's good enough to run a system through, but not good enough to close competitive upper level games in the conference. He has a poor showing against other top bigs, and in 3 years we can't even call his jumper inconsistent because it's yet to exist.

We will be immediately worse without him, yes. But I don't think we're ever winning much with him either.

[HoosierDPU95]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

I did not watch last night and may decide not to watch again until the BTT.  So, I cant weigh in about how we let last night get away.

But, it does seem that, over the last few years, we come from ahead to lose significantly more games down the stretch than we come from behind to win.  

For me, that points more to a lack of on-court leadership than it does coaching. 

Bob Knight didn't design a play to get the ball to Keith Smart in '87, despite Smart carrying the team down the stretch of that game up until that point.  The play was designed for Alford.

But, when Daryl Thomas got the pass, he recognized he personally wasn't going to get a good shot off.  Throw that same pass today and TJD forces up a bad shot.  And, Smart knew better than to stand and watch.  He cut to give Thomas a passing angle.  None of our wing players would do that today.

This group of players does not do things like that.  And, I refuse to believe it's the coaching.  The players lack the commitment to be great.  We saw that with the Windy City 5.  And, doesnt that loss look huge right now.

Bingo! Had we executed on that one play out of the timeout where Race threw the ball away trying to get it to Trayce we would be talking about an entirely different outcome in my opinion. I'm sure the plan was to "get the ball to Trayce" but when that broke down, nobody made an adjustment to a secondary option. All the ranting about Stewart guarding Branham down the stretch is just head scratching to me. Who else did we have to put on him? One of the 3 guys in track suits? Leal? Double team it and leave him to find someone wide open (which he did numerous times)?

They didn't completely piss away our tournament hopes with that nonsense in Chicago but it certainly contributed to it. Rob's absence has been the biggest factor there IMO. We are all disappointed by more than likely being on the outside looking in again but to say we haven't improved from last year is flat out wrong. People are dogging Woodson for his "gotta get them over the hump" comments but at least he has them to the hump. Last year's team couldn't even see the hump. Sure that doesn't make us feel better about the W-L results for this year but I'm sure not ready to jump on the "we should have hired big name blah blah blah" wagon.

 

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, AxnJxn said:

Yes, there's only one way to win in this game, and that's by doing what those guys are doing. Give me a break. I'm sure Calipari would have sprinted to this job, considering the shenanigans he was getting into at Memphis at the time.  Scott Drew, he of "commit or I'll have you deported" fame? Bruce Pearl, I don't even know where to start with that one, or Pitino. 

Meanwhile, there are plenty of coaches that have succeeded without any of that - Jay Wright, Boeheim, Izzo, Beilein, Tony Bennett. But, hey, according to you I guess it's impossible to win without hiring one of the "everything that's wrong with college basketball" people to run your program.

 

Pearl is worse than Boeheim or Izzo from a moral perspective? How? 

[Hoosierdave]

45 minutes ago, Purdue7 said:

Anyone who doesn’t want TJD & Race back is an idiot.

You played O$U even with 6 players because those 2 set a physical tone especially on defense 

Ehhhh that’s pretty debatable. Are they the two best players on the team? Sure. Unfortunately, their skill sets are what’s holding the offense back the most. Neither are big and strong like Edey, Cockburn, Key, Williams, Omoruyi. Neither can force other teams out to the perimeter like Dickinson, Bingham, Crowl, Wahl, Liddell, Brown, Murray, Harper, Gillis, Furst. 
 

Not going to win many games relying on contested shots from 5 feet and out rebounding your bigger/stronger opponents. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Hoosierdave

[BobSaccamanno]

3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

It has always been about Jonny's and Joes but we did not make adjustments that we should have made down the stretch. Miller Kopp MIA forever gets it rolling makes a turnover comes out never goes back in. Parker Stewart beat 88 straight times to the right side every single time no adjustment, no double no trap no hey lets get the ball out of the hands of the guy kiling us. Ball goes to TJD in the only spot that he can get it and do anything with with it and 4 guys stand and wait for the double to come so he can figure out who to pass it to. Heaven forbid a basketcut a back cut maybe a pin down screen and post. Nope stand and wait. Or we just let our guards dribble out the shot clock and chuck up a bad 3. with 5 seconds left lets walk it up. My high school kids I coached know better than this but its allowed so it keeps happening. . Certain players are held accountable and others not. 

Great post.  I said something similar last night.  I went totally ape ship that we let Branham come down everytime off the dribble.  We left poor Parker Stewart on him.  Our offense has devolved into tossing it into Trayce even if the whole defense is circling him like sharks.  I was already upset that we let Johnny Davis leave flame marks all over Stewart last game.  I didn't make a big deal of it, but when we hired an NBA coach, I expected him to see those matchup problems ON THE FLY and fix them.

Even accepting arguendo that Woodson is learning the league--which i do not accept--what on earth are Fife and Matta doing?  We are supposed to have an all star coaching staff.  

Billingsley and I saw Coach Knight.  This would never happen.   He would see that and not tolerate a breakdown like that.   And we would never lose five in a row either.  

This was not good.  I like that Woodson is a gentleman.  He knows the game.  But this isn't Atlanta where you could normalize a 20 and 62 record.  Urgency.  

This year is a free pass but next year, the drum beats will start.  I hope he gets that.  He can pretend that it doesn't matter.  He and Buckner and Kitchel and Dakich and Hillman can all high five each other about having an IU guy.  

But ask Crean and Archie if you can survive having lost the fans.

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by BobSaccamanno

[IUCrazy2]

23 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Great post.  I said something similar last night.  I went totally ape ship that we let Branham come down everytime off the dribble.  We left poor Parker Stewart on him.  Our offense has devolved into tossing it into Trayce even if the whole defense is circling him like sharks.  I was already upset that we let Johnny Davis leave flame marks all over Stewart last game.  I didn't make a big deal of it, but when we hired an NBA coach, I expected him to see those matchup problems ON THE FLY and fix them.

Even accepting arguendo that Woodson is learning the league--which i do not accept--what on earth are Fife and Matta doing?  We are supposed to have an all star coaching staff.  

Billingsley and I saw Coach Knight.  This would never happen.   He would see that and not tolerate a breakdown like that.   And we would never lose five in a row either.  

This was not good.  I like that Woodson is a gentleman.  He knows the game.  But this isn't Atlanta where you could normalize a 20 and 62 record.  Urgency.  

This year is a free pass but next year, the drum beats will start.  I hope he gets that.  He can pretend that it doesn't matter.  He and Buckner and Kitchel and Dakich and Hillman can all high five each other about having an IU guy.  

But ask Crean and Archie if you can survive having lost the fans.

 

https://btownbanners.com/topic/13376-iubb-ou-22122-700-on-fs1-tv/?do=findComment&comment=709171

Read through that thread a bit but if any of this is true, there are 2l3 unofficial coaches that Woodson is listening to as opposed to the guys who are actually his paid assistants.

[btownqb]

22 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Great post.  I said something similar last night.  I went totally ape ship that we let Branham come down everytime off the dribble.  We left poor Parker Stewart on him.  Our offense has devolved into tossing it into Trayce even if the whole defense is circling him like sharks.  I was already upset that we let Johnny Davis leave flame marks all over Stewart last game.  I didn't make a big deal of it, but when we hired an NBA coach, I expected him to see those matchup problems ON THE FLY and fix them.

Even accepting arguendo that Woodson is learning the league--which i do not accept--what on earth are Fife and Matta doing?  We are supposed to have an all star coaching staff.  

Billingsley and I saw Coach Knight.  This would never happen.   He would see that and not tolerate a breakdown like that.   And we would never lose five in a row either.  

This was not good.  I like that Woodson is a gentleman.  He knows the game.  But this isn't Atlanta where you could normalize a 20 and 62 record.  Urgency.  

This year is a free pass but next year, the drum beats will start.  I hope he gets that.  He can pretend that it doesn't matter.  He and Buckner and Kitchel and Dakich and Hillman can all high five each other about having an IU guy.  

But ask Crean and Archie if you can survive having lost the fans.

 

We lost 5 straight Knight's first year. The first of those 5 was to Northern ILL by 14. He also lost to Ohio that season. Two MAC schools. 

I would assume that team was aslo more talented then the one we have now. His first year he had Downing and Wright. 

[dbmhoosier]

8 minutes ago, btownqb said:

We lost 5 straight Knight's first year. The first of those 5 was to Northern ILL by 14. He also lost to Ohio that season. Two MAC schools. 

I would assume that team was aslo more talented then the one we have now. His first year he had Downing and Wright. 

And he was 31 years old then.  Woody is about 64.  We can't afford any on the job training. 

[BobSaccamanno]

10 minutes ago, btownqb said:

We lost 5 straight Knight's first year. The first of those 5 was to Northern ILL by 14. He also lost to Ohio that season. Two MAC schools. 

I would assume that team was aslo more talented then the one we have now. His first year he had Downing and Wright. 

Thanks for the correction.  I was very young that season so I didn't remember it.  My first real memories for IU hoops are '75 and '76.

I had a student teacher from IU.  I told her Scott May was a relative.  She thought it was hilarious.  Being young and innocent, I didn't account for any racial differences, lol.

Edited February 22, 2022 by BobSaccamanno

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Thanks for the correction.  I was very young that season so I didn't remember it.  My first real memories for IU hoops are '75 and '76.

I had a student teacher from IU.  I told her Scott May was a relative.  She thought it was hilarious.  Being young and innocent, I didn't account for any racial differences, lol.

All of us have IU blood. That trumps anything else!

[Billingsley99]

8 minutes ago, btownqb said:

All of us have IU blood. That trumps anything else!

No politics!! I kid I kid!! Very true statement and at times we argue like blood relatives and at the end of the day we all ,minus the couple of TOILETMAKERS , just want the family to succeed. 

[IU Scott]

8 hours ago, IUwins0708 said:

When you change coaches and have the same problems as before, maybe it is the players.  I love them for choosing IU but there is no toughness whatsoever in this team.  Trayce, Kopp, Durr, and even Race to an extent are all soft players.  Our toughest player is Trey and it’s not even close.  That goes both mentally and physically.  Race cost us this game on the defensive side of the ball.  You could see Woody getting into him a good bit at the end of regulation.  He’s constantly lost on D.  Trayce, well he is what he is.  He’s a good, not great player.  To put it better, he is a second option type player.  These guys all seem so distracted with other stuff around them.  Go Hoosiers!

Totally agree that most of this is on the players.  I look at the Pacers who are on their third coach in 3 years and they still have the same problems.

[dbmhoosier]

10 minutes ago, btownqb said:

All of us have IU blood. That trumps anything else!

No politics!  

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said:

No politics!  

Thats euchre terms, homie. 😂

[IU Scott]

8 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

I'm not sure the administration wants it fixed.  At some point you have to start to believe that this is all by design.  It's hard to believe at this point that anyone could be this incompetent by accident. 

We have had 6 coaches, 6 AD' and now on our 4th president so how can you blame the administration.  I know that is your fall back on everything wrong with IU.  To me we ad fans need to take a little bit of the fault since we have been the one constant these 20 years.

[BobSaccamanno]

25 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

https://btownbanners.com/topic/13376-iubb-ou-22122-700-on-fs1-tv/?do=findComment&comment=709171

Read through that thread a bit but if any of this is true, there are 2l3 unofficial coaches that Woodson is listening to as opposed to the guys who are actually his paid assistants.

I will try to read through that.  I normally take insider views with a grain of salt.  I hope it is not true.  I will say, I would have expected more from Fife (and others) so that might explain my question.