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Today vs. Yesterday

rico

By rico
in General Basketball Discussion

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rico

rico

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13 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Wilt was incredible -- in his generation. Would he dominate players like LeBron, Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis, Cousins, or more recently Tim Duncan (arguably the greatest power forward ever), etc.? You have to consider the players Wilt was playing against, the size, athleticism, strength, and skill level of those guys, compared to today's players. I can't think of anyone, and I mean anyone, like AntetoKounmpo, or for that matter, LeBron, back then. Completely different level of athleticism, size and strength. Who in the world would go toe to toe with LeBron?? 

Again, no one is disputing that there are a number of past greats who would be great today (and no on is stopping MJ), but the fllip side of that argument is that many, and I do mean many, of today's elite players would dominate yesterday's players. They're not just bigger, stronger and faster, they're also just as if not more skilled than most former players. Who handles the ball as well as Curry, or Kyrie? Who has the shear speed, athleticism and scoring ability, or the defensive ability to stop Westbrook? How many players can you name that shot anywhere near as well as Curry? Just look at the league 3-point leaders right now, heck, Klay Thompson is 1st in 3-point %, at 45%, while being 2nd in 3-pointers made (161), Curry is 3d in 3-pointers made, or you could look at the 2-way players today, Paul George is 5th in 3-pointers made, shooting 42%, and #1 in steals and 3rd in defensive efficiency. The level of skill and athleticism in today's players is on a whole new level.

Whoa, when did the NBA institute the 3-point line?  You are giving stats that didn't exist back in the day.  

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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

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2 minutes ago, rico said:

Whoa, when did the NBA institute the 3-point line?  You are giving stats that didn't exist back in the day.  

No I'm not -- as to 3-point percentage I'm talking about shooting, whether or not there was a 3-point line is irrelevant. You also ignored basically my entire post. I don't think there's much in it that is really debatable. There's a tremendous level of "basketball" talent in today's game, to go along with the size athleticism and speed. 

As I mentioned above, there are aspects of the game I do miss -- the bank shot, for one (and Duncan, recently, was the best), but there's not much reason here, in my opinion, to live in the past.

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Hoosierhoopster

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Just now, rico said:

No it's not.  It is highly relevant.

 

Why? Did that change one's ability to shoot? Are you saying because people today can shoot 45% from way the heck out on the court and still lead the League in 3-pointers, in the hundreds, that can't be compared to pre-three point line NBA players just because they didn't have that line? Sure, you can't compare, "apples to apples" on 3-point percentage, but wasn't the point about level of skill of today's players, you know, that somehow today's players aren't as "basketball" skilled as yesterday's??

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rico

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2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Why? Did that change one's ability to shoot? Are you saying because people today can shoot 45% from way the heck out on the court and still lead the League in 3-pointers, in the hundreds, that can't be compared to pre-three point line NBA players just because they didn't have that line? Sure, you can't compare, "apples to apples" on 3-point percentage, but wasn't the point about level of skill of today's players, you know, that somehow today's players aren't as "basketball" skilled as yesterday's??

The players today are better, I never said they weren't.  More gifted and what not.  But the rules and the changes concerning them have changed how today's players play as opposed to those of yesterday.  Does that make sense?

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I'm an old geezer so would trend towards Scott's argument. But here is where I think the distinctions are.

-By far, players today are bigger, faster, stronger, can jump higher, etc. Better training, better nutrition, better medical practices, and the ability to devote 365 days a year to their games. That last point is huge. Back, way back, many of the players had to supplement their income by working in the offseason at other jobs. Couldn't just focus on improving during the offseason.

- In my opinion, players from the past were better schooled on fundamentals. I believe there was more time spent drilling on those skills. In saying that, today's game probably isn't as reliant on being as fundamentally sound, as better athletic ability covers up for fundamental flaws. I think that makes for a more exciting brand of basketball and probably more aesthetically pleasing to the "And-1" generation but not so much to a basketball purist.

-I don't think that there's a right or wrong answer here and one of the beauties of this board is that there are members that appear to span a wide range of ages. Each has their own point of reference that colors their opinions. Each is probably going to drive themselves crazy trying to convince the others that their version is better .

Gotta love the various opinions and gotta love that for the most part, the back and forth has been respectful.

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milehiiu

milehiiu

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12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

For those saying current players lack fundamentals, exactly what fundamentals do they appear to be lacking?  

Time clock management.  Passing skills ( when the bounce pass is preferable to the cross court pass, for instance.) Free throw shooting (not just IU).  And spacing, just come to my head immediately.

 

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8 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

For those saying current players lack fundamentals, exactly what fundamentals do they appear to be lacking?  

To answer your question, I think that it depends on what stage of player development we're talking about.

 I don't know what RICO was referring to when he started this thread, but since this is a college board, I'll go with that. However, this thread has skewed to the pro game, which I think is a different discussion.

 I think that kids coming into the college game are lacking in quite a few fundamentals. I firmly believe that the primary cause of this is AAU basketball and the emphasis on being seen and making a name win out over developing solid fundamentals.

Poor shooting, poor defensive positioning, footwork, basketball IQ, playing with leverage, court vision, IMO, it's rare to have a kid come in as a freshman with more than 1-2 of those skills. And because of the limitations on practice time, I believe that these kids take longer to develop these skills.

Once a kid is out of school and can concentrate solely on basketball, then I agree with those arguing that today's pros are by and large better players. I think that is definitely a factor on so many kids leaving school early if they have any chance to play professionally somewhere. And it's why the NBA draft is primarily based on potential, because they know these kids are far from finished products

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