NotIThatLives Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Comparing the ratings is like looking at an investment. If I have $1 million to invest I expect a larger return than someone who starts with $500k. Why? Because I start at a better position than you do. If you are my investment guy and you have turned my $1 million into $1.1 million and a competitor has turned his client's $500k into $1.15 million, I have questions. If other $1 million investors 2 years ago are sitting at $1.25 million, I have questions. If you tell me that I can't compare starting points to where we are now because that doesn't matter in the here and now, you aren't my investment manager anymore. Also a good post 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Comparing the ratings is like looking at an investment. If I have $1 million to invest I expect a larger return than someone who starts with $500k. Why? Because I start at a better position than you do. If you are my investment guy and you have turned my $1 million into $1.1 million and a competitor has turned his client's $500k into $1.15 million, I have questions. If other $1 million investors 2 years ago are sitting at $1.25 million, I have questions. If you tell me that I can't compare starting points to where we are now because that doesn't matter in the here and now, you aren't my investment manager anymore. That's a bad analogy. With investing, you know exactly how much you start with. With recruiting, you have a few outside services saying how good they think each player is. That leads to players like Zach Edey, Oladipo, Connor Gillespie, and others as 3 star players or worse, while Khristian Lander is a 5 star. Also, NW started 3 seniors and 2 juniors, while IU started 2 seniors, 1 Junior, 1 Sophomore, and 1 Freshman. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kdug said: That's a bad analogy. With investing, you know exactly how much you start with. With recruiting, you have a few outside services saying how good they think each player is. That leads to players like Zach Edey, Oladipo, Connor Gillespie, and others as 3 star players or worse, while Khristian Lander is a 5 star. Also, NW started 3 seniors and 2 juniors, while IU started 2 seniors, 1 Junior, 1 Sophomore, and 1 Freshman. But we shouldn't have to dig to revisionize it. Trayce is pre season all American and we know what we have in JHS. Malik is still a beast but young and going through some downs before coming up. Northwestern is better than we all thought. Kudos to them they are experienced, move the ball very well. Attack from all over the court. Pesky as can be defensively. Really bad timing for IU to be discombobulated. However, we have more talent than them, is anyone really denying that? In that one game the sum of their parts was greater than ours and sadly, that has been the case for IU basketball for about 6 years straight. Edited January 11, 2023 by NotIThatLives 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, Kdug said: That's a bad analogy. With investing, you know exactly how much you start with. With recruiting, you have a few outside services saying how good they think each player is. That leads to players like Zach Edey, Oladipo, Connor Gillespie, and others as 3 star players or worse, while Khristian Lander is a 5 star. Also, NW started 3 seniors and 2 juniors, while IU started 2 seniors, 1 Junior, 1 Sophomore, and 1 Freshman. The 2 underclassmen we started were both Top 25. 1 of them scored 30. In the aggregate, ratings matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, Kdug said: Also, NW started 3 seniors and 2 juniors, while IU started 2 seniors, 1 Junior, 1 Sophomore, and 1 Freshman. Wow. So now the excuse is experience? lol 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 6 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: But we shouldn't have to dig to revisionize it. Trayce is pre season all American and we know what we have in JHS. Malik is still a beast but young and going through some downs before coming up. Northwestern is better than we all thought. Kudos to them they are experienced, move the ball very well. Attack from all over the court. Pesky as can be defensively. Really bad timing for IU to be discombobulated. However, we have more talent than them, is anyone really denying that? In that one game the sum of their parts was greater than ours and sadly, that has been the case for IU basketball for about 6 years straight. I think it's fair to say IU has more talent than NW, but saying recruiting rankings and investing are similar is flat out wrong. Also, a lot of IU's talent is still very inexperienced which can be exposed by an experienced team like NW. I agree with the general premise that we should still be able to beat NW at home, but this isn't NW from 10+ years ago. IU has lost 2 of their most experienced/best players in the last two P5 games, that's going to lead to some bumps in the road no matter what team it is. Unfortunately for IU, it led to two 1 point losses in winnable games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, rico said: Wow. So now the excuse is experience? lol Lol, no. I was responding to an absurd analogy comparing investing and recruiting. If someone wants to make that ridiculous comparison, you can't ignore the time factor of investing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Kdug said: I think it's fair to say IU has more talent than NW, but saying recruiting rankings and investing are similar is flat out wrong. Also, a lot of IU's talent is still very inexperienced which can be exposed by an experienced team like NW. I agree with the general premise that we should still be able to beat NW at home, but this isn't NW from 10+ years ago. IU has lost 2 of their most experienced/best players in the last two P5 games, that's going to lead to some bumps in the road no matter what team it is. Unfortunately for IU, it led to two 1 point losses in winnable games. This reminds me of those Tony Kornheiser and the other guy segments, buy or sell. If I could invest in future returns on Indiana vs Kansas. I can expect reasonable gains with Kansas. IU would be like AMC, a dinosaur, with potential if they can get it right, more high risk. Probably, today, a sell. Preseason, it was a hot buy. A lot of us are still holding to hope because that's what we do. But like I said, that game, the discombobulation of IU after 2 major injuries, bad timing to play that version of NU. We have survived X to an extent because JHS is so good but we didn't realize the massive drop from Race to anyone else trying to fill his shoes until it was full exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kdug said: Lol, no. I was responding to an absurd analogy comparing investing and recruiting. If someone wants to make that ridiculous comparison, you can't ignore the time factor of investing. I don't see why not? It was theoretical, not a real thing. There are short term gains. There are expectations based on data on hand. On paper IU should beat NU. Apples to apples we probably outspend them by 10 million a year. We should expect better returns. Don't make this too literal. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, Kdug said: I think it's fair to say IU has more talent than NW, but saying recruiting rankings and investing are similar is flat out wrong. Also, a lot of IU's talent is still very inexperienced which can be exposed by an experienced team like NW. I agree with the general premise that we should still be able to beat NW at home, but this isn't NW from 10+ years ago. IU has lost 2 of their most experienced/best players in the last two P5 games, that's going to lead to some bumps in the road no matter what team it is. Unfortunately for IU, it led to two 1 point losses in winnable games. Of course basketball rankings and investments are different, but I think we all use analogies on here to help prove points. @IUCrazy2's point was pretty fair as analogies go. I would argue that our talent is very experienced. And certainly the talent that is playing. JHS and Reneau have played a lot of (and high quality) games in HS. Certainly more than what I was exposed to playing HS bball in Indiana back in the 90s. Sure XJ and Race are going on their 8th and 9th years in college, but it's not like the rest of the roster just fell off the truck. They have experience and have been through a few grinds themselves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: This reminds me of those Tony Kornheiser and the other guy segments, buy or sell. If I could invest in future returns on Indiana vs Kansas. I can expect reasonable gains with Kansas. IU would be like AMC, a dinosaur, with potential if they can get it right, more high risk. Probably, today, a sell. Preseason, it was a hot buy. A lot of us are still holding to hope because that's what we do. But like I said, that game, the discombobulation of IU after 2 major injuries, bad timing to play that version of NU. We have survived X to an extent because JHS is so good but we didn't realize the massive drop from Race to anyone else trying to fill his shoes until it was full exposed. I think if we had XJ... Miller could play primarily the 4, pretty easily. Sure we lost some interior D... but we could make up for it by getting more possessions on the other end that end in 3s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 It's also true that sometimes upsets happen. College Basketball is like that. We didn't play well and we got beat. So it goes. Arizona is one of the best teams in the country and they just got blasted at home by Washington St. I'm on board with thinking we should always be better than Northwestern, and especially at home, for all the reasons being argued above. But the result isn't always going to turn out that way. It doesn't mean the season is over or the program is ruined. It just means we need to be better the next time out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 minute ago, btownqb said: I think if we had XJ... Miller could play primarily the 4, pretty easily. Sure we lost some interior D... but we could make up for it by getting more possessions on the other end that end in 3s. It's probably this tea.s best option if Race isn't shooting consistently but when he is, the defense should be at its full strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said: It's probably this tea.s best option if Race isn't shooting consistently but when he is, the defense should be at its full strength. *** I meant, if Race was hurt and XJ wasn't. Sorry if I was confusing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 20 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: I don't see why not? It was theoretical, not a real thing. There are short term gains. There are expectations based on data on hand. On paper IU should beat NU. Apples to apples we probably outspend them by 10 million a year. We should expect better returns. Don't make this too literal. When you don't want to address the concept the analogy is describing, you go to literal interpretations. Indiana starts at a better position than Northwestern with every single class they bring in. If Northwestern is better than Indiana it is because they did a better job developing their lesser thought of pieces and/or they have a better system in place to utilize what they have. If everything else was equal, the talent Indiana bring in would beat the talent Northwestern brings in 70%+ of the time. That number goes even higher in Bloomington. Everything else isn't equal though and that is the problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 18 minutes ago, Maedhros said: It's also true that sometimes upsets happen. College Basketball is like that. We didn't play well and we got beat. So it goes. Arizona is one of the best teams in the country and they just got blasted at home by Washington St. I'm on board with thinking we should always be better than Northwestern, and especially at home, for all the reasons being argued above. But the result isn't always going to turn out that way. It doesn't mean the season is over or the program is ruined. It just means we need to be better the next time out. In the bubble of this season, sure. I admit up front that I am not being fair but I can't turn off the past 20 some odd years when almost every year and every new coaching staff seems to fall into the very familiar patterns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 3 hours ago, RoadToZion said: Why????????????????????? Please explain with details. You should play harder at least 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadToZion Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Purdue7 said: You should play harder at least 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, RoadToZion said: Great example! Nobody on that team ranked high in recruiting rankings They played together with a purpose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadToZion Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 10 minutes ago, Purdue7 said: Great example! Nobody on that team ranked high in recruiting rankings They played together with a purpose You should have played harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) I think where us older fans have a problem is that we was around a time where we dominated Northwestern and Wisconsin to a point where it was a total shock when we lost. That didn't happen often at all and in Wisconsin case we beat them 31 straight times. Our problem is that has nothing to do with today's college basketball. We beat Neb. easily and the next game #1 Purdue played at Neb. while fully healthy and had to go it to OT beat them. Edited January 11, 2023 by IU Scott 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, RoadToZion said: You should have played harder. I said it all year….Ivey didn’t play defense. Showboated on offense Glad he is living his NBA dream and Purdue has a team of guys who are connected on defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 Somebody mentioned the TC first teams…..they played together had to respect the effort and energy they brought every night 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 16 minutes ago, Purdue7 said: Somebody mentioned the TC first teams…..they played together had to respect the effort and energy they brought every night God those team had almost zero basketball talent. But they left it all on the court every game. Never once doubted that team did the very best they could. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue3542 Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 27 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I think where us older fans have a problem is that we was around a time where we dominated Northwestern and Wisconsin to a point where it was a total shock when we lost. That didn't happen often at all and in Wisconsin case we beat them 31 straight times. Our problem is that has nothing to do with today's college basketball. We beat Neb. Easily and the next game #1 Purdue played at Neb. while fully healthy and had to go it to heat them. Definitely right. The whole landscape has changed, and there's more parity than ever across all D1 basketball. Too many people just see NW and think expected win without any further consideration. NW is legit good so far this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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