Drroogh Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 I just read a local (Toledo) article yesterday where people are calling for Holtman’s job because OSU has lost so many in a row. Fans are fans that’s what we do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: It definitely is, but as I said in the PSU postgame, exiting the ship at this point is crazy... If 1983 taught me one thing, it's that a team's season isn't over until it's OVER...Anything can happen...Yes, that's an extreme, but looking for the exit door 15 games into the season is a bit on the panicky side to me too... Who exited the ship? It sure as hell wasn't me and I am the only person being called out by name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Inequality said: This really feels like some have been chomping at the bit to say “I told you so” after these two wins. I am straddling the fence saying we are all on the same team so let’s play nice. The funny thing is that I had the same "I told you so" thought after both of the games too....I didn't act on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, Inequality said: This really feels like some have been chomping at the bit to say “I told you so” after these two wins. I am straddling the fence saying we are all on the same team so let’s play nice. Agree, but that is because some chomp at the bit to make every loss a "big issue" and we have to read the state of the program posts after each loss, and then we get the posts attacking Woodson. Whether anyone wants to admit it our not, it was always going to take Woodson and staff longer than 1.5 years to turn this train wreck around.... so the fact some were absurdly over critical of him and others because we lost 3 games without 2 starters, yeah it annoys us. Woodson didn't push any magic buttons the last two games, our team played better and we executed. Added a couple wrinkles in the half court, and kicked the shit out of ILL in ATOs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 Dang, I stay away for a couple days after a loss so I don’t have to read all the stuff. Now I might have to stay away after wins? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 20 minutes ago, Inequality said: Guys, reading tea leaves is what folks do on a fan board. Go read the Illinois board and I bet you will find their fans questioning Underwood’s in game adjustment abilities. It’s all part of it. I don’t think anyone here is not pulling for the team. I’m not sure why anyone would waste a minute here otherwise. Some folks remember the RMK years and have a different expectation than someone that came into the IUBB fandom during the CTC tenure. Some would be happy with a .500 season and a first out in the tourney and some would see that as a complete failure given the talent on the roster. My only point to Zion earlier was what I stated in a previous post. I see his post as the pot calling the kettle black. You cant exactly call others out for premature judgement when you’re doing exactly the same thing. The team is playing good basketball the last two games but the jury is still out on the season. Who on here (this board) came into IUBB fandom during the Crean years? Wasn't me. Wasn't @IUFLA or @RoadToZion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Who exited the ship? It sure as hell wasn't me and I am the only person being called out by name. I didn't call you out, but this... On 1/12/2023 at 8:29 AM, IUCrazy2 said: We have enough pieces, without XJ and RT, to not look as completely inept as we do. Seriously, this post is ground hog day. You could pick it up and drop it in the Davis, Sampson, Crean, and Miller eras and it would fit right in. Woodson and staff are absolutely doing a piss poor job right now. The team he puts on the court is fundamentally a mess and that has nothing to do with injuries. He may improve but right now he sucks. There is nothing on court you can point to that says, "Well run team". Nothing. Our offense is predicated on one on one moves going down a list and our defense is non-existent. If you absolutely need players and the coach doesn't matter, hire me for 50% of what Woodson makes. I will make sure we throw anything we need out to get players, roll the ball on the court, smoke a cigar, and cash my check. Northwestern, Penn State, Purdue, Wisconsin...coaching matters, stop making up excuses for ours. This isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the coach or team...If all the things you said here were true, we wouldn't have beaten Wisconsin OR Illinois... And I do realize that after a game like Penn State there are a lot of people whose defensive mechanism kicks in through humor, or anger, or even frustration...I get it... My point is, that coaching, like a lot of other endeavors in life, is not an absolute...Not with Knight, nor with Wooden, not with anybody... As I said, it's not a magic switch... It's a long season with ebbs and flows...We're not out of the woods yet, but while I'm optimistic (as if that shocks anyone ) I also know there are tougher games ahead, and we aren't going to win them all... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I didn't call you out, but this... This isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the coach or team...If all the things you said here were true, we wouldn't have beaten Wisconsin OR Illinois... And I do realize that after a game like Penn State there are a lot of people whose defensive mechanism kicks in through humor, or anger, or even frustration...I get it... My point is, that coaching, like a lot of other endeavors in life, is not an absolute...Not with Knight, nor with Wooden, not with anybody... As I said, it's not a magic switch... It's a long season with ebbs and flows...We're not out of the woods yet, but while I'm optimistic (as if that shocks anyone ) I also know there are tougher games ahead, and we aren't going to win them all... I stand by that post 100%. Woody and staff did not do a good job those games. The players did a piss poor job of competing those 2 games. (Iowa was disappointing but I will give them losing Race in that one because he was part of the gameplan going in.) One of the people sniping right now said after those games they couldn't because we just did not have the players. Northwestern had a better team when we were without XJ and RT. I said that was bull sh*t. The past 2 games proved that was bull sh*t. That post was a reaction to saying there was basically nothing the staff could do without players and I was responding that if a coach doesn't matter then hire me (i.e. the coaching does matter). Edited January 20, 2023 by IUCrazy2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 31 minutes ago, Inequality said: This really feels like some have been chomping at the bit to say “I told you so” after these two wins. I am straddling the fence saying we are all on the same team so let’s play nice. No, I think it's more some, myself included, want people to understand that Woody wasn't over in a folding chair snoozing, and then all of a suddens jumps out of it in full Bob Knight mode and starts coaching again... He's been coaching all along...The BS about not listening, and lost the team, was just that...BS... He said he got into Geronimo pretty good...Every game I've seen he gets into kids as they come off the court, Trayce and JHS included... So that's the rub in my eyes...He's coached the same way since he's been at IU, and he always will...But it's not going to make us win every game, and speculating about BS after a loss isn't going to change that... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: No, I think it's more some, myself included, want people to understand that Woody wasn't over in a folding chair snoozing, and then all of a suddens jumps out of it in full Bob Knight mode and starts coaching again... He's been coaching all along...The BS about not listening, and lost the team, was just that...BS... He said he got into Geronimo pretty good...Every game I've seen he gets into kids as they come off the court, Trayce and JHS included... So that's the rub in my eyes...He's coached the same way since he's been at IU, and he always will...But it's not going to make us win every game, and speculating about BS after a loss isn't going to change that... Great post. Its just output based. Which is fine. Some enjoy the process. He isn't coaching any different, there were no magic buttons pressed. It's truly as simple as if we win, we played well... If we lose, we played poorly, for some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Hoosier Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: No, I think it's more some, myself included, want people to understand that Woody wasn't over in a folding chair snoozing, and then all of a suddens jumps out of it in full Bob Knight mode and starts coaching again... He's been coaching all along...The BS about not listening, and lost the team, was just that...BS... He said he got into Geronimo pretty good...Every game I've seen he gets into kids as they come off the court, Trayce and JHS included... So that's the rub in my eyes...He's coached the same way since he's been at IU, and he always will...But it's not going to make us win every game, and speculating about BS after a loss isn't going to change that... To be fair, the players themselves made comments about not listening/following the game plan. The three game stretch we had was brutal, nobody is gonna debate that. The past 2 games have been excellent all around (players and staff). The staff created excellent game plans and the players executed it. In my opinion, there should be equal blame on staff and players for the losses and equal praise for the past two performances. Regardless of how it got done, just keep on winning. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 9 minutes ago, IUFLA said: No, I think it's more some, myself included, want people to understand that Woody wasn't over in a folding chair snoozing, and then all of a suddens jumps out of it in full Bob Knight mode and starts coaching again... He's been coaching all along...The BS about not listening, and lost the team, was just that...BS... He said he got into Geronimo pretty good...Every game I've seen he gets into kids as they come off the court, Trayce and JHS included... So that's the rub in my eyes...He's coached the same way since he's been at IU, and he always will...But it's not going to make us win every game, and speculating about BS after a loss isn't going to change that... TJD said they weren't doing what they were told (i.e. not listening). That wasn't injuries. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said: TJD said they weren't doing what they were told (i.e. not listening). There;s a big difference in not executing what you're told to do (which is what I believe) as opposed to "not listening" which is apparently your take...I've seen or heard nothing to indicate that other than comments on this board...I know Don Fischer said something to that effect, but Don has as many D1 basketball coaching victories as I do...I'm surprised Woody hasn't taken him to task on their radio show over it... And don't even get me started on the talking heads/former players trying to make their podcasts/YouTube channels take off... I think if your take was correct, Coach Woodson would have a player sitting to the right of the walk-ons until he got the flick... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, IUFLA said: There;s a big difference in not executing what you're told to do (which is what I believe) as opposed to "not listening" which is apparently your take...I've seen or heard nothing to indicate that other than comments on this board...I know Don Fischer said something to that effect, but Don has as many D1 basketball coaching victories as I do...I'm surprised Woody hasn't taken him to task on their radio show over it... And don't even get me started on the talking heads/former players trying to make their podcasts/YouTube channels take off... I think if your take was correct, Coach Woodson would have a player sitting to the right of the walk-ons until he got the flick... Discount the "Voice of the Hoosiers" who has been around the team for nearly 50 years. Discount the former players and their opinions. Discount what players themselves were saying. Discount what you saw with your own eyes that was supported by people who (admittedly) know more about X's and O's than I do.... I don't have to discount the opinion of anyone to arrive at mine. "Losing players hurts" says btownqb, IU FLA, and Road to Zion and even though none of you dudes have the pedigree of any of the people I am supposed to discount above, I still took your opinion, agreed it was harder, but said the effort and concentration was missing and the team looked like a wreck. Something that falls on the staff and players. It wasn't the losing (that sucked, but we lost games earlier this year and I didn't say squat...so it isn't results based btownqb) it was how we looked in the losing. We were awful. The injuries were not a good excuse for how awful and unprepared we looked. That is my opinion and my opinion is backed by a whole bunch of people with a better pedigree than mine. We love us our players and they are awesome until they get critical of the team and then suddenly they are grifters. Edit to add: And I was celebrating the wins in the game threads but for some reason RTZ wanted to spike the ball on me thinking the past two games vindicated him. I don't know why the f--- some of you wanted to start in on this when everyone had been in agreement that we were happy with the turnaround right now. So instead of celebrating the wins we get to have this fight again. Edited January 20, 2023 by IUCrazy2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) Edited January 20, 2023 by Drroogh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 Guys, we have several posters here that are Purdue and Illinois fans. Go fight with them. It's what they are here for. 😁 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said: Discount the "Voice of the Hoosiers" who has been around the team for nearly 50 years. Discount the former players and their opinions. Discount what players themselves were saying. Discount what you saw with your own eyes that was supported by people who (admittedly) know more about X's and O's than I do.... I'm not discounting anything but "opinion" is what it is...They aren't in practices, so saying that Woodson isn't coaching is off the mark...And it's not about Xs and Os, at least that's not what you insinuate...You say they're not listening...that's a whole different Pandora;s Box... 3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: I don't have to discount the opinion of anyone to arrive at mine. "Losing players hurts" says btownqb, IU FLA, and Road to Zion and even though none of you dudes have the pedigree of any of the people I am supposed to discount above, I still took your opinion, agreed it was harder, but said the effort and concentration was missing and the team looked like a wreck. Something that falls on the staff and players. It wasn't the losing (that sucked, but we lost games earlier this year and I didn't say squat...so it isn't results based btownqb) it was how we looked in the losing. You certainly do...I think @btownqband @RoadToZionboth acknowledge the growing pains that come with a new lineup and people playing new roles...It takes time! In the two games prior to Wisconsin, Geronimo almost got hit in the head with a pass for Christ sake...You think that was becuse he "wasn't listening?" He's in a new role...he's trying hard...maybe TOO hard...And JHS was figuring out how to play without XJ sharing the ball handling duties and assuming more of a leadership role... Basketball is a fast paced game...Some players (Larry Bird, Magic Johnson) just instictively know where to be an what to do...I don't think Geronimo is there...I think he needs to be coached...and early on in his starting role, it was a bit overwhelming... You say it's not that we lost (although I'll say I'm calling shens on that) but HOW we lost...How we lost was players assuming new roles and making mistakes, particularly on the defensive end... And again, you say the injuries don't count for much...I got two names for you...Kris Murray, and Boo Buie...and if you don't think Race and XJ wouldn't have had an effect on those two, I think you're wrong... 13 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: We were awful. The injuries were not a good excuse for how awful and unprepared we looked. That is my opinion and my opinion is backed by a whole bunch of people with a better pedigree than mine. We love us our players and they are awesome until they get critical of the team and then suddenly they are grifters. As I said in another thread, then the conversation ends...Practices determine who sees playing time...Race and X obviously out performed the players who are trying to replace them...You can call them "excuses" but I call them reasons...And the injuries, espcially during the 3 game losing streak, loom large... And no one called them "grifters." They have an opinion just like everyone else does...Problem is they also have an agenda...And dysfunction sells better than rainbows and lollypops... All you have to do to see that is look at TV listings sometimes... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Discount the "Voice of the Hoosiers" who has been around the team for nearly 50 years. Discount the former players and their opinions. Discount what players themselves were saying. Discount what you saw with your own eyes that was supported by people who (admittedly) know more about X's and O's than I do.... I don't have to discount the opinion of anyone to arrive at mine. "Losing players hurts" says btownqb, IU FLA, and Road to Zion and even though none of you dudes have the pedigree of any of the people I am supposed to discount above, I still took your opinion, agreed it was harder, but said the effort and concentration was missing and the team looked like a wreck. Something that falls on the staff and players. It wasn't the losing (that sucked, but we lost games earlier this year and I didn't say squat...so it isn't results based btownqb) it was how we looked in the losing. We were awful. The injuries were not a good excuse for how awful and unprepared we looked. That is my opinion and my opinion is backed by a whole bunch of people with a better pedigree than mine. We love us our players and they are awesome until they get critical of the team and then suddenly they are grifters. Edit to add: And I was celebrating the wins in the game threads but for some reason RTZ wanted to spike the ball on me thinking the past two games vindicated him. I don't know why the f--- some of you wanted to start in on this when everyone had been in agreement that we were happy with the turnaround right now. So instead of celebrating the wins we get to have this fight again. Yes we were bad, and should've been better, especially against Penn State. But saying injuries weren't one of the reasons we were bad is not accurate. It wasn't the only reason, and we had some issues (mainly on the defensive end) even before the injuries. But when you have two key players hurt, your performance is going to suffer. Just look at Wisconsin. Wahl missed 3 games and they lost every one of them, and that's just with one starter out, not two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 Just now, IUFLA said: I'm not discounting anything but "opinion" is what it is...They aren't in practices, so saying that Woodson isn't coaching is off the mark...And it's not about Xs and Os, at least that's not what you insinuate...You say they're not listening...that's a whole different Pandora;s Box... You certainly do...I think @btownqband @RoadToZionboth acknowledge the growing pains that come with a new lineup and people playing new roles...It takes time! In the two games prior to Wisconsin, Geronimo almost got hit in the head with a pass for Christ sake...You think that was becuse he "wasn't listening?" He's in a new role...he's trying hard...maybe TOO hard...And JHS was figuring out how to play without XJ sharing the ball handling duties and assuming more of a leadership role... Basketball is a fast paced game...Some players (Larry Bird, Magic Johnson) just instictively know where to be an what to do...I don't think Geronimo is there...I think he needs to be coached...and early on in his starting role, it was a bit overwhelming... You say it's not that we lost (although I'll say I'm calling shens on that) but HOW we lost...How we lost was players assuming new roles and making mistakes, particularly on the defensive end... And again, you say the injuries don't count for much...I got two names for you...Kris Murray, and Boo Buie...and if you don't think Race and XJ wouldn't have had an effect on those two, I think you're wrong... As I said in another thread, then the conversation ends...Practices determine who sees playing time...Race and X obviously out performed the players who are trying to replace them...You can call them "excuses" but I call them reasons...And the injuries, espcially during the 3 game losing streak, loom large... And no one called them "grifters." They have an opinion just like everyone else does...Problem is they also have an agenda...And dysfunction sells better than rainbows and lollypops... All you have to do to see that is look at TV listings sometimes... Disagree with quite a bit but can we stop harping on it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Kdug said: Yes we were bad, and should've been better, especially against Penn State. Stop there. That was my entire point. We should have been better those two games. Period. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Disagree with quite a bit but can we stop harping on it? Me? Harping? I know I have a truculent side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said: Stop there. That was my entire point. We should have been better those two games. Period. Right, the players should have been better. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 Just now, IUFLA said: Me? Harping? I know I have a truculent side Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, btownqb said: Right, the players should have been better. Period. Everyone should have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Everyone should have been. We didn't make many changes the last two games. A few wrinkles added offensively. Players play. Ours were better the last two.... and that is by far the biggest change, the players. Not pushing some magic button. Edited January 20, 2023 by btownqb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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