IUBB 22/‘23

[Zuckerkorn]

8 hours ago, SawatchHoosier said:

One top 15ish player from the 2022 class was Dillon Mitchell. A 5 star recruit from Monteverde and was teammates with JHS and Malik. He's playing for Texas which most of us remember fired Chris Beard at the beginning of the season. TBF he hasn't lived up to the expectation of being a top 10 recruit from the class of 2022. I feel if he's seen the growth of Malik and JHS this year he might of have an interest in transferring. 

Related to that (5-stars not living up to their ranking) - I wonder if Reneau would be considered one?  We know he has shown good potential and had some nice games early in the non-con part of the year but struggled some in the B10 (mostly foul trouble).

I'm pretty "bullish" on MR, particularly considering that recent comparison of top-100 recruits v.s. transfers, but from the outside he may be seen as not living up to his ranking(?)

Edited March 3, 2023 by Zuckerkorn

[KoB2011]

15 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Related to that (5-stars not living up to their ranking) - I wonder if Reneau would be considered one?  We know he has shown good potential and had some nice games early in the non-con part of the year but struggled some in the B10 (mostly foul trouble).

I'm pretty "bullish" on MR, particularly considering that recent comparison of top-100 recruits v.s. transfers, but from the outside he may be seen as not living up to his ranking(?)

He would fit into that category.

It's easy to say Top 100 guys not living up to rankings when we just look at stats, but I doubt most of us really know the full context like we do with Malik, and I think most of us would say that we are pretty encouraged with Malik and do think he played to his ranking. I know at least for me, I don't have a problem envisioning him having success next year (not to TJD's level) as our primary scorer inside, most of his growing pains have been in the other things we need him to do more than score on this team. I think he'll score in the 12-15 PPG range next year no problem. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

10 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Disappointing graphic

The first 3 years post Sampson and CAM years really put some losses on our home court

Edited March 3, 2023 by IowaHoosierFan

[Zuckerkorn]

13 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

He would fit into that category.

It's easy to say Top 100 guys not living up to rankings when we just look at stats, but I doubt most of us really know the full context like we do with Malik, and I think most of us would say that we are pretty encouraged with Malik and do think he played to his ranking. I know at least for me, I don't have a problem envisioning him having success next year (not to TJD's level) as our primary scorer inside, most of his growing pains have been in the other things we need him to do more than score on this team. I think he'll score in the 12-15 PPG range next year no problem. 

Yes.  Also, with Race & TJD gone, his role is bound to be different.  In a sense it's good to have a talented freshman who has high potential without the fear of going pro after one season.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Zuckerkorn

[KoB2011]

3 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

The first 3 years post Sampson an CAM years really put some losses on our home court

Looks like the only team to have played more home games than us in the last decade on this list are Ohio State and Maryland, too. Not that I have a problem with home games, but it really underscores how weak our non-conference scheduling has been because we aren't getting those neutral or road games scheduled. Seems like that is changing under Woody from what Crean and Archie did. 

[IUFLA]

26 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Related to that (5-stars not living up to their ranking) - I wonder if Reneau would be considered one?

I don't know...What were the expectations with 2 senior bigs playing in front of him in his freshman season?

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 minute ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Yes.  Also, with Race & TJD his role is bound to be different.  In a sense it's good to have a talented freshman who has high potential without the fear of going pro after one season.

I think if MR would have been forced into the starting role like JHS did, we would see a much more mature and polished player.  Alot of his downside came from not understanding he is bigger and stronger than most and fouling.  He has a sweet touch near the rim and passes well. I really like his upside and see him having a huge year next year.

[KoB2011]

We still appear to be a solid 4 as of today on Bracket Matrix.

I do wonder what type of boost we might get if we can show X is going to be back to playing a role on this team - can't really factor in injuries for seeding until you know the injured guy is back, right? 

[IowaHoosierFan]

3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Looks like the only team to have played more home games than us in the last decade on this list are Ohio State and Maryland, too. Not that I have a problem with home games, but it really underscores how weak our non-conference scheduling has been because we aren't getting those neutral or road games scheduled. Seems like that is changing under Woody from what Crean and Archie did. 

completely agree.  I would much rather be 50/50 playing top competition than 95/5 playing a sad excuse for a conCon

Edited March 3, 2023 by IowaHoosierFan

[MoyeCowbell]

18 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I don't know...What were the expectations with 2 senior bigs playing in front of him in his freshman season?

 

17 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I think if MR would have been forced into the starting role like JHS did, we would see a much more mature and polished player.  Alot of his downside came from not understanding he is bigger and stronger than most and fouling.  He has a sweet touch near the rim and passes well. I really like his upside and see him having a huge year next year.

Absolutely.

Reneau's technical abilities are solid. He's got good footwork and a nice touch around the basket, and it's a great foundation to work from. His blossoming into a better, more effective and complete player will come from experience, pure and simple.

It's probably not fair to compare MR to Trayce because TJD relies on his athleticism so much more, so Race is a better gauge -- Thompson has learned how to be more effective at the end of his career simply by getting the reps. He understands how to play against other B1G big men while leveraging his skills to the best of his abilities.

MR's trajectory is higher/better and I think he'll really grow as both @IUFLA & @IowaHoosierFan said because mentally, he'll know that he HAS to stay on the floor. There likely won't be two others supplanting him for prime minutes, so (hopefully) Reneau will adjust his play to maximize impact.

[Zuckerkorn]

28 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I don't know...What were the expectations with 2 senior bigs playing in front of him in his freshman season?

Well, for a lot of fans a 5-star will automatically be a one-and-done before they ever suit up, lol.  I could see a highly regarded big as a possible challenge to RT as a starter to some.  From the outside (especially outside the B10) I doubt many don't even know who Race is, so by statistics alone MR might appear disappointing.

I've come to take a wait and see attitude with recruits, you just never know.  In fact, in the first several games it appeared MR might be the better freshman between he and JHS.

[MoyeCowbell]

3 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Well, for a lot of fans a 5-star will automatically be a one-and-done before they ever suit up, lol.  I could see a highly regarded big as a possible challenge to RT as a starter to some.  From the outside (especially outside the B10) I doubt many don't even know who Race is, so by statistics alone MR might appear disappointing.

I've come to take a wait and see attitude with recruits, you just never know.  In fact, in the first several games it appeared MR might be the better freshman between he and JHS.

Yes, there were games where that felt true.

But it's also worth pointing out that we had XJ during that time, so JHS wasn't needed as much. Once X went down, we relied on JHS and (to his credit) he's stepped into the role. He's gotten those reps because there isn't anyone else taking them from him (whereas MR is 3rd in his rotation).

[Steubenhoosier]

It has long been held as a widely accepted axiom that it takes longer for bigs to develop than guards/wings.

MR has improved quite a bit since the beginning of the year, and other than the fouling, has pretty much given CMW what he has asked. I think another year in the weight room will help MR immensely, and as someone else said previously, he will take on an expanded role next season. 

I am really looking forward to watching Malik develop and become a more complete player for IU.

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Well, for a lot of fans a 5-star will automatically be a one-and-done before they ever suit up, lol.  I could see a highly regarded big as a possible challenge to RT as a starter to some.  From the outside (especially outside the B10) I doubt many don't even know who Race is, so by statistics alone MR might appear disappointing.

I've come to take a wait and see attitude with recruits, you just never know.  In fact, in the first several games it appeared MR might be the better freshman between he and JHS.

I don't think Malik had any inclination that he was a 1 and done player, and watching him play in high school, I felt like he'd be at IU at least 3 years. @MoyeCowbellis right that he's not in Trayce's league athletically, but he does have a lot of desireable skills for a big man. And if he gets in the gym and shoots a boatload of jumpers, he can be even more valuable, both at IU and down the road...

I think with the athletic limitations, both Malik and his parents saw that Mike Woodson was a good fit for what he needs to advance to the next level...They realize it's a process, and so far, I like the progress...Over the summer will be big though, in both developing his body and his game...

[KoB2011]

7 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said:

Yes, there were games where that felt true.

But it's also worth pointing out that we had XJ during that time, so JHS wasn't needed as much. Once X went down, we relied on JHS and (to his credit) he's stepped into the role. He's gotten those reps because there isn't anyone else taking them from him (whereas MR is 3rd in his rotation).

I also think there is a pretty big difference in how XJ set other people up as opposed to JHS. That's not to knock JHS, but XJ is a true PG where as JHS is more of a combo guard and I think that is evidence when watching them play. 

 

[MoyeCowbell]

A quick aside:

Man I wish that TJD would've at attempted a few more 10-13 footers. Not that I want/ed him to change his game, but because he was so effective getting to the rim, he never (and has yet to) really tried to extend his range, which in theory would make him even more lethal.

Now, with that being said, MR has at least shown the willingness to expand the range, and while not as explosive, he does have the footwork and agility to get to the rim. A more of a fleet-footed version of ZBo. That versatility will really serve him well next year.

[btownqb]

If MR was playing 29mpg (TJDs amount as a FR)... I think he'd avg 10-12p 5-7r... I also think there is a chance he'd be on the all FR team. I am not discouraged by Malik at all. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by btownqb

[NotIThatLives]

9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

 developing his body and his game...

I want to see him come back next year and just be a bully.  Instant jump into NPOY conversation.   

[Zuckerkorn]

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

I want to see him come back next year and just be a bully.  Instant jump into NPOY conversation.   

What he may lack in athletic ability or height is countered by his strenght already- particularly lower body.  He also seems to have very good body control.

[btownqb]

 

Saw this stat yesterday ..... only 17% of the top 100 avg 10p+ 

[Maedhros]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

If MR was playing 29mpg (TJDs) amount as a FR... I think he'd avg 10-12p 5-7r... I also think there is a chance he'd be on the all FR team. I am not discouraged by Malik at all. 

Malik came out of the gates hot. Then the film was out on him and he hit a wall. Malik responded by improving his game to go from being unplayable to being one of the first guys off the bench. He still fouls too much, but I'm extremely encouraged by what I've seen from Malik and what it means for his career in Bloomington.

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

The first 3 years post Sampson and CAM years really put some losses on our home court

The post-Sampson years should not be part of the graphic since they are more than a decade old.

But, yeah, I get your point.  The Archie years were not good times, but they are behind us.  I feel good about our future as long as Coach Woodson is at the helm.

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Malik came out of the gates hot. Then the film was out on him and he hit a wall. Malik responded by improving his game to go from being unplayable to being one of the first guys off the bench. He still fouls too much, but I'm extremely encouraged by what I've seen from Malik and what it means for his career in Bloomington.

He's also forced to guard out of position. 

[NotIThatLives]

3 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

What he may lack in athletic ability or height is countered by his strenght already- particularly lower body.  He also seems to have very good body control.

I know he's never going to dunk like Blake Griffin but man I can see his game taking off like that.  Had he played nearly 30 mins a game this year and gotten near the usage Griffin did as a frosh, 27% I could have seen a 14 and 9 avg out of him.  

 

[Proud2BAHoosier]

42 minutes ago, btownqb said:

If MR was playing 29mpg (TJDs amount as a FR)... I think he'd avg 10-12p 5-7r... I also think there is a chance he'd be on the all FR team. I am not discouraged by Malik at all. 

Now if he could only stay out of foul trouble..... just sayin'