rico Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 46 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said: Yes. And it further supports my claim that Trey should've been Mentioned Honorably. He helped run the show with JHS in XJ's absence and the wheels didn't fall off. That should account for something. Totally agree with the HM for Gallo. But his stat line didn't support it, and I bet the guys that vote don't see nearly enough games live, or on replay, before they vote the stat line for a player. If Gallo puts up 15 & 8 next year, he'll likely get HM or maybe 3rd team BTen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 I'll just laugh at the McConnell thing. Whatever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 Some of these awards are determined before the season even starts. DPOY is a case in point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 15 hours ago, rico said: TJD not being DPOTY is a joke. Generally speaking, DPOTY should almost always go to a big anyway. They just impact the game more than a perimeter player can. This year specifically, with the plethora of really good bigs in the Big Ten, it's an absolute joke for it to not go to a the best defensive big man (by far IMO). 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 16 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: TJD not being DPOTY is a joke. Generally speaking, DPOTY should almost always go to a big anyway. They just impact the game more than a perimeter player can. This year specifically, with the plethora of really good bigs in the Big Ten, it's an absolute joke for it to not go to a the best defensive big man (by far IMO). I agree with you about TJD this year and the general high level of play from the B1G's bigs this year. He has been nothing short of fantastic. I can't agree with your DPOY/bigs take. Perimeter players absolutely can impact the game defensively just as much as post/bigs. While we both agree that TJD was more deserving of recognition this year, it's not accurate to think that perimeter players are "generally speaking" less deserving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 47 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said: I agree with you about TJD this year and the general high level of play from the B1G's bigs this year. He has been nothing short of fantastic. I can't agree with your DPOY/bigs take. Perimeter players absolutely can impact the game defensively just as much as post/bigs. While we both agree that TJD was more deserving of recognition this year, it's not accurate to think that perimeter players are "generally speaking" less deserving. I mean, agree to disagree but a perimeter player can shut down one guy where a big can shut down everything at the rim and change the entire complexion of how a team plays offense. Football analogy, but a big is like an edge rusher in how they change the game and a perimeter player is like an off-ball outside linebacker IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 It's crap Edey got POY. No way he averages 21 and 12 if he's not 7'4". Outside of scoring and rebounding he can't do anything else. The only other thing in his favor is without him purdue would have sucked royally and finished at the bottom. TJD is a way more versatile all around player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 hour ago, KoB2011 said: I mean, agree to disagree but a perimeter player can shut down one guy where a big can shut down everything at the rim and change the entire complexion of how a team plays offense. Football analogy, but a big is like an edge rusher in how they change the game and a perimeter player is like an off-ball outside linebacker IMO. I know its from another era, but if you can find them, go back sometime and watch how Buckner and Wilkerson affected play defensively. Might change your opinion that they only shut down one guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: It's crap Edey got POY. No way he averages 21 and 12 if he's not 7'4". Outside of scoring and rebounding he can't do anything else. The only other thing in his favor is without him purdue would have sucked royally and finished at the bottom. TJD is a way more versatile all around player. @Stlboiler23 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Steubenhoosier said: I know its from another era, but if you can find them, go back sometime and watch how Buckner and Wilkerson affected play defensively. Might change your opinion that they only shut down one guy. It's more of a general rule than a universal one anyway, but as you said, different era. I'd make the case Quinn Buckner never guarded anyone on what we consider the perimeter today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: It's more of a general rule than a universal one anyway, but as you said, different era. I'd make the case Quinn Buckner never guarded anyone on what we consider the perimeter today. Not sure what to make of that statement...You think no one shot from outside in Buckner's era? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Not sure what to make of that statement...You think no one shot from outside in Buckner's era? I don't think people shot from 25' and defenses were extending to 25' very often in 1975. Would love to be wrong, we don't have three point data until a few years later but unless the amount of shot attempts really dropped off as that shot became worth more point, it wasn't really a big part of the game 50 years ago. Edited March 8, 2023 by KoB2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 22 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Not sure what to make of that statement...You think no one shot from outside in Buckner's era? Quinn didn't. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 FYI gang. BTN Journey at 530 EST will feature TJD. Set the recorder or watch it live. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I don't think people shot from 25' and defenses were extending to 25' very often in 1975. Would love to be wrong, we don't have three point data until a few years later but unless the amount of shot attempts really dropped off as that shot became worth more point, it wasn't really a big part of the game 50 years ago. You need to go watch old games because they shot way outside. The Hurryin Hoosiers shot the ball all over the place. Rick Mount and Pete Maravich just to name a couple of college players that shot from distance. I think it is easier to guard the perimeter today than it was in the past. Guys today just stand around where before was in constant movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 I don't think there is much defense being played on the perimeter in this video that is a highlight video of the greatest team ever. It's not a knock on the team, the players, the era, or anything, it's just a very different game today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: You need to go watch old games because they shot way outside. The Hurryin Hoosiers shot the ball all over the place. Rick Mount and Pete Maravich just to name a couple of college players that shot from distance. I think it is easier to guard the perimeter today than it was in the past. Guys today just stand around where before was in constant movement Nothing proves your point like citing a couple of historically good players and how they played. That's definitely the norm for that time period.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Nothing proves your point like citing a couple of historically good players and how they played. That's definitely the norm for that time period.... Just naming a couple but to act like teams didn't shoot outside was false. Maybe IU didn't under RMK at first but eventually they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 29 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I don't think people shot from 25' and defenses were extending to 25' very often in 1975. Would love to be wrong, we don't have three point data until a few years later but unless the amount of shot attempts really dropped off as that shot became worth more point, it wasn't really a big part of the game 50 years ago. Of course there wasn't the added benefit of the 3 point line back then, so there might not have been the volume we see today, but believe me, there were guys in the Big 10 you didn't want to leave open from 25 feet...Our own Steve Green would light you up if you left him open from the far corners...It wasn't just layups... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 40 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Nothing proves your point like citing a couple of historically good players and how they played. That's definitely the norm for that time period.... Believe me, it wasn't just "a couple of historically good players." Ever hear of Jimmy Rayl? "Rayl, who passed away Sunday afternoon at age 77, was one of the greatest long-range shooters of his era, a threat from beyond 30 feet more than two decades before the introduction of the 3-point shot." He still holds the IU record for points in a single game... As @IU Scott mentioned, Rick Mount, but his backcourt mate, Bill Keller, was no slouch from the outside either...Alan Hornyak of OSU, Mike Robinson, Terry Furlow, and Ralph Simpson of Michigan State, Steve Grote and Ricky Green of Michigan...And that's just off the top of my head...There were a lot of good outside shooters in the Big 10 in the years before the 3 point shot...And you had to guard them or they'd make you pay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 Just now, IUFLA said: Believe me, it wasn't just "a couple of historically good players." Ever hear of Jimmy Rayl? "Rayl, who passed away Sunday afternoon at age 77, was one of the greatest long-range shooters of his era, a threat from beyond 30 feet more than two decades before the introduction of the 3-point shot." He still holds the IU record for points in a single game... As @IU Scott mentioned, Rick Mount, but his backcourt mate, Bill Keller, was no slouch from the outside either...Alan Hornyak of OSU, Mike Robinson, Terry Furlow, and Ralph Simpson of Michigan State, Steve Grote and Ricky Green of Michigan...And that's just off the top of my head...There were a lot of good outside shooters in the Big 10 in the years before the 3 point shot...And you had to guard them or they'd make you pay... None of what you said changes the overall point, but we can agree to disagree. If you think it's a remotely reasonable comparison how guys had to defend the perimeter 50 years ago to what they do today then we are very far apart on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 55 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Just naming a couple but to act like teams didn't shoot outside was false. Maybe IU didn't under RMK at first but eventually they did. How, in your mind, has offense and defense changed in the past 50 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: None of what you said changes the overall point, but we can agree to disagree. If you think it's a remotely reasonable comparison how guys had to defend the perimeter 50 years ago to what they do today then we are very far apart on this. Ok, but you do know the ABA started in 1967 right? And you do know they had the 3 point line from their inception? And they did rely on college players to stock their teams. Those guys didn't just go from shooting mid range jumpers and layups to being good 3 point shooters overnight... As I said, certainly more shot volume now, but coaches had to adjust quickly. And I believe the original ABA 3 point line was 25 feet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 8, 2023 Report Share Posted March 8, 2023 33 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: How, in your mind, has offense and defense changed in the past 50 years? Well I think offense in the college game has deteriorated the last 10 years or so. I think offenses are not close to being as good as the past because the style of offense makes it easier to defend. I think you would see that scoring and shooting percentages are lower today compared to the 80' and 90's. With the 30 second clock and the style I f to offense it makes to many possessions end on terrible shots at the end of the shot clock. Even before the shot clock you would see teams score more than what we see today because teams played with more freedom and coaches didn't over analyze every little detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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