Lostin76 Posted December 24, 2022 Report Share Posted December 24, 2022 Love seeing Bates continue to develop. His shot just looks so good. Malik seems to have regressed a bit though unfortunately. Is it that he’s feeling pressure with TJD not being 100% or just the level of competition heating up. If it’s the latter, he better get prepared for the conference schedule. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 24, 2022 Report Share Posted December 24, 2022 (edited) So looking at it from Coach Woodson's perspective... Of course he wants to win the game, because as was said a Quad 4 loss at home really hurts your NET ranking (ask Iowa), but he also has to continue developing the confidence of guys like Bates, Galloway, and JHS to be primary ballhandlers, and show kids like Gunn, Banks, and Duncomb what they're up against by exposing them to slightly better competition (and yes, I know Banks didn't play)... After giving Gunn and Duncomb some short time in the 1st, we pretty much stuck with a 6 man rotation (after Reneau was taken out for good) of JHS, Race, Geronimo, Galloway, Bates and Kopp in the 2nd half, and it brought us the win. Coach Woodson is playing the long game, and I think that's going to pay in coming games... As for the dancing controversy, well, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy... Their practices by all accounts are intense... Nothing wrong with letting them relax a little before the game... Edited December 24, 2022 by IUFLA 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euroclydon Posted December 24, 2022 Report Share Posted December 24, 2022 Take the win and hope they figure some things out when they return. Not sure they have an identity. The defense of late is not what they were. TJD out makes a huge difference. Offense is now perimeter/guard dominant and that's not been a strength. D has to become more sound and offense has to be much more efficient or conf play will be ugly. Rebounding needs to be a priority. At some point CMW hands the keys to JHS and hopes for the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 24, 2022 Report Share Posted December 24, 2022 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: So looking at it from Coach Woodson's perspective... Of course he wants to win the game, because as was said a Quad 4 loss at home really hurts your NET ranking (ask Iowa), but he also has to continue developing the confidence of guys like Bates, Galloway, and JHS to be primary ballhandlers, and show kids like Gunn, Banks, and Duncomb what they're up against by exposing them to slightly better competition (and yes, I know Banks didn't play)... After giving Gunn and Duncomb some short time in the 1st, we pretty much stuck with a 6 man rotation (after Reneau was taken out for good) of JHS, Race, Geronimo, Galloway, Bates and Kopp in the 2nd half, and it brought us the win. Coach Woodson is playing the long game, and I think that's going to pay in coming games... As for the dancing controversy, well, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy... Their practices by all accounts are intense... Nothing wrong with letting them relax a little before the game... love the point on the tighter rotation in the second half, can’t wait to see it with TJD and maybe X. I think that rotation and the way we want to play could be the golden ticket if we can get healthy and keep progress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 24, 2022 Report Share Posted December 24, 2022 2 hours ago, btownqb said: TJD took a contingent of like 5 guys and they huddled, danced around for about 20 secs... and then everyone went back to warmups. Seemed pretty normal and something that happens every game. I don't think anyone will mistaken any of our guys for Michael Jackson, but it certainly seemed.. "not newsworthy". All I can say to this post is... 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euroclydon Posted December 24, 2022 Report Share Posted December 24, 2022 Obvious fixes - start with Tamar, TG and JHS picking up their dribble 24+ feet out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted December 24, 2022 Report Share Posted December 24, 2022 perimeter defense and point guard play going forward is going to kill us in the Big Ten. We are going to miss XJ big time. I hope i'm wrong but don;t think so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted December 24, 2022 Report Share Posted December 24, 2022 The Freshmen have hit a wall. This break will be good for MR. The week of practice will help JHS make better choices with the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUfaninIllinois Posted December 24, 2022 Report Share Posted December 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Parakeet Jones said: I’ll take a short handed win two days before Christmas against a pesky opponent every day of the week and twice on Christmas. There is no denying the first half was brutal, but in a vacuum the 2nd was okay. The slow starts are an issue that have to get rectified quickly with B1G play coming. We start like that at Iowa and we are down 20 at the half. I have no clue what the answer is. It’s going to take a few games for these guys to learn to play without X. Hopefully everyone settles into their adjusted roles sooner rather than later. I mentioned in the MVP thread that Bates is growing into the player we all hoped he would be. That fact makes me as happy as anything regarding IU basketball right now. It’s simple. The starting lineup is the issue. Even with TJD it has been an issue. I love Woody but if his assistant coaches don’t hold him accountable and tell him he needs to stop running these lineups out there that cause the slow start each half them that’s an issue. Race should not start the rest of the season unless TJD is out again. He is better without him most of the time and I think he could use a demotion to light a fire under his turnover prone lazy defense self. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 3 hours ago, IUfaninIllinois said: It’s simple. The starting lineup is the issue. Even with TJD it has been an issue. I love Woody but if his assistant coaches don’t hold him accountable and tell him he needs to stop running these lineups out there that cause the slow start each half them that’s an issue. Race should not start the rest of the season unless TJD is out again. He is better without him most of the time and I think he could use a demotion to light a fire under his turnover prone lazy defense self. Who in the world starts at the 4, then? Not JG or Malik. We've clearly seen that they aren't anywhere close to Race, currently. Interesting take to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 I mean, I agree.. Race and TJD don't complement each other overly well. We just don't have a better option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zville Hoosier Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 I actually left this game feeling slightly optimistic because of two things: 1) Tamar - Keep shooting like that and we now have several legit scorers to free up TJD 2) Woody realizing that clogging up the lane with the bugs wasn’t working and going to the high post to create room for the guards to drive made a big difference. Need to see more of that. Feeding the post generally just isn’t working consistently for us, need to mix it up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUfaninIllinois Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, btownqb said: Who in the world starts at the 4, then? Not JG or Malik. We've clearly seen that they aren't anywhere close to Race, currently. Interesting take to say the least. Honestly I’d start Bates and move Miller to the 4 because against most teams he can hang defensively then offensively 4 out and TJD top of key and pick and roll into position. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, IUfaninIllinois said: Honestly I’d start Bates and move Miller to the 4 because against most teams he can hang defensively then offensively 4 out and TJD top of key and pick and roll into position. To me.. thats absolutely the only move to make, currently. Like the only option I could even see feasible. But.. that leaves you mighty short handed guard/wing wise on your bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 1 hour ago, btownqb said: Who in the world starts at the 4, then? Not JG or Malik. We've clearly seen that they aren't anywhere close to Race, currently. Interesting take to say the least. Could go really small but it would hurt rebounding with putting Kopp at the 4 JHS Bates Galloway Kopp TJD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) I like Miller a lot and have been a defender of his, but he can’t rebound even a little. I don’t know if I can think of a 6’7 player who rebounded less. If he rebounded, I would love the idea of starting him at the 4. But if you play him with Bates and Gallo you would have to rely on a team rebounding environment but Bates isn’t a distinguished rebounder either. Gallo, JHS and TJD can rebound though so you might have enough? I am torn. I definitely like the Trayce, Miller, Gallo, JHS, Bates grouping. It’s dynamic. Is it physical enough? I honestly don’t know. We have time to play it out. I’m all for it. If Geronimo can reverse his regression and get back to the energetic, tough kid we had late last year, he’s another guy who can give us a boost at the 4. He maybe showed a glimpse of that after what I’d call a lackluster start to the year. Edited December 25, 2022 by BobSaccamanno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 52 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: I like Miller a lot and have been a defender of his, but he can’t rebound even a little. I don’t know if I can think of a 6’7 player who rebounded less. If he rebounded, I would love the idea of starting him at the 4. But if you play him with Bates and Gallo you would have to rely on a team rebounding environment but Bates isn’t a distinguished rebounder either. Gallo, JHS and TJD can rebound though so you might have enough? I am torn. I definitely like the Trayce, Miller, Gallo, JHS, Bates grouping. It’s dynamic. Is it physical enough? I honestly don’t know. We have time to play it out. I’m all for it. If Geronimo can reverse his regression and get back to the energetic, tough kid we had late last year, he’s another guy who can give us a boost at the 4. He maybe showed a glimpse of that after what I’d call a lackluster start to the year. I can certainly see the lineup you laid out turning into our best lineup and closing lineup, but the rebounding concerns are legit and so are depth concerns with a small ball lineup and no X. I think we will have to pick and choose when and how much to use it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUfaninIllinois Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 7 hours ago, IU Scott said: Could go really small but it would hurt rebounding with putting Kopp at the 4 JHS Bates Galloway Kopp TJD That’s what I would personally do. We don’t rebound great as is in regards to boxing out for one plus because our guards say so much they collapse on boards too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUfaninIllinois Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 7 hours ago, btownqb said: To me.. thats absolutely the only move to make, currently. Like the only option I could even see feasible. But.. that leaves you mighty short handed guard/wing wise on your bench. I know he’s a freshman but I think Gunn doesn’t get enough play, I also think Leal could play 5-6 minutes to help with that. I know banks is big but to me he plays more like a 3 than a 4 so I’d experiment with that because he looked like a lost puppy when playing in a 3/2 offensive setup vs a 4/1 but much more comfortable playing outside because I’d assume he was main scoring option on his team and didn’t post up a lot and played more from the perimeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 12 hours ago, IUfaninIllinois said: Honestly I’d start Bates and move Miller to the 4 because against most teams he can hang defensively then offensively 4 out and TJD top of key and pick and roll into position. We try that against Iowa and Filip Rebraca will stand on the perimeter with Trayce having to stay close (he doesn't shoot many 3s, but he can make them) while Kris Murray (if he's available) or Patrick McCaffery posts Kopp up every time down the floor...Fran may be a hot-headed, but he can exploit matchups with the best of them... Miller's a good perimeter defender, but down on the block, those 2 would kill him... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUfaninIllinois Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, IUFLA said: We try that against Iowa and Filip Rebraca will stand on the perimeter with Trayce having to stay close (he doesn't shoot many 3s, but he can make them) while Kris Murray (if he's available) or Patrick McCaffery posts Kopp up every time down the floor...Fran may be a hot-headed, but he can exploit matchups with the best of them... Miller's a good perimeter defender, but down on the block, those 2 would kill him... I think that’s a fair point. I’ve just been overly frustrated by not only Race but our stagnant offense. My concern with doing a 4 out with Race is he will take wayyyy too many threes and not make them like usual haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, IUfaninIllinois said: I think that’s a fair point. I’ve just been overly frustrated by not only Race but our stagnant offense. My concern with doing a 4 out with Race is he will take wayyyy too many threes and not make them like usual haha He's been shooting a lot better since the Rutgers loss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 35 minutes ago, IUfaninIllinois said: I think that’s a fair point. I’ve just been overly frustrated by not only Race but our stagnant offense. My concern with doing a 4 out with Race is he will take wayyyy too many threes and not make them like usual haha 16 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: He's been shooting a lot better since the Rutgers loss. Question is whether his 4-7 against AZ was a fluke or a sign of better things to come. Since then, he's 1-4 over three games (0-3 in last two). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: Question is whether his 4-7 against AZ was a fluke or a sign of better things to come. Since then, he's 1-4 over three games (0-3 in last two). Definitely agree it's a fair question and we need more sample size, so Race will have to keep shooting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 1 hour ago, IUfaninIllinois said: I think that’s a fair point. I’ve just been overly frustrated by not only Race but our stagnant offense. My concern with doing a 4 out with Race is he will take wayyyy too many threes and not make them like usual haha I think we're just going to face the fact we're a "grind it out" team... We seem to have different parts function well in games, we just haven't had all parts working together... Yet... UNC maybe... 24 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: Question is whether his 4-7 against AZ was a fluke or a sign of better things to come. Since then, he's 1-4 over three games (0-3 in last two). He's seems like a much better catch and release guy than if he has time to think or tries a pass/shot fake first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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