The New Norm?

[Danomatic]

One has to wonder… is this indeed the new norm?  I wasn’t sure where to post this, but thought that it might need its own thread. Since mostly everyone is reporting for summer workouts, I saw this tweet and found it intriguing. Evidently there are several kids that still are unclear on their immediate futures, and some haven’t reported to their new schools yet. As the tweet reads, this is primarily in regards to 4 and 5 star recruits. That being said, some of the no-shows are portal guys, including at the moment, Anthony Walker. Does anyone know why he hasn’t stepped on campus yet? 

[IUfaninIllinois]

1 hour ago, Danomatic said:

One has to wonder… is this indeed the new norm?  I wasn’t sure where to post this, but thought that it might need its own thread. Since mostly everyone is reporting for summer workouts, I saw this tweet and found it intriguing. Evidently there are several kids that still are unclear on their immediate futures, and some haven’t reported to their new schools yet. As the tweet reads, this is primarily in regards to 4 and 5 star recruits. That being said, some of the no-shows are portal guys, including at the moment, Anthony Walker. Does anyone know why he hasn’t stepped on campus yet? 

Any idea who this is next to MM and ware??? 

[Southern IN Hoosier]

Is Anthony Walker coming or?

[Victobmyboy]

9 minutes ago, Southern IN Hoosier said:

Is Anthony Walker coming or?

This is strange. Still working with Miami guys. 
Maybe nothing. 

https://twitter.com/Antgotclout/status/1664778339935027201?s=20

[IUFLA]

8 hours ago, Danomatic said:

One has to wonder… is this indeed the new norm?  I wasn’t sure where to post this, but thought that it might need its own thread. Since mostly everyone is reporting for summer workouts, I saw this tweet and found it intriguing. Evidently there are several kids that still are unclear on their immediate futures, and some haven’t reported to their new schools yet. As the tweet reads, this is primarily in regards to 4 and 5 star recruits. That being said, some of the no-shows are portal guys, including at the moment, Anthony Walker. Does anyone know why he hasn’t stepped on campus yet? 

I'll just say this...

Try to hold this program under Mike Woodson hostage at your own peril...

[Maedhros]

Don't think there's anything to it. Alec Lasley tweeted Anthony Walker is planned to arrive later:

 

[Andrew]

Walker has to finish up some school work this summer. Relax lmao. Also the people you don’t notice are new walk ons from montverde and new pal. 

[Drroogh]

3 hours ago, Maedhros said:

Don't think there's anything to it. Alec Lasley tweeted Anthony Walker is planned to arrive later:

 

Seems Newton and Sparks have figured out the trick of standing closer to the camera in order to look taller than everyone else!

[IUFLA]

57 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Walker has to finish up some school work this summer. Relax lmao. Also the people you don’t notice are new walk ons from montverde and new pal. 

So the New Pal kid is Ian Stephens...what's the Montverde kid's name? 

Why are you confused @KoB2011? The Twitter comments @Danomatic posted and I quoted said some kids weren't showing up because of NIL negotiations or concern over transfer portal guys and playing time...I don't think that kind of ploy would sit well with Woody...do you?

[13th&Jackson]

No, still the old Norm

[KoB2011]

18 hours ago, IUFLA said:

So the New Pal kid is Ian Stephens...what's the Montverde kid's name? 

Why are you confused @KoB2011? The Twitter comments @Danomatic posted and I quoted said some kids weren't showing up because of NIL negotiations or concern over transfer portal guys and playing time...I don't think that kind of ploy would sit well with Woody...do you?

I don’t think it’s a ploy, I think it’s legit concerns that teenagers have and this is how they’re reacting. It probably doesn’t sit well with any coach, but if that is someone any coach is counting on they’re probably going to still try and get that guy on campus. 

[5fouls]

20 hours ago, Andrew said:

Walker has to finish up some school work this summer. Relax lmao. Also the people you don’t notice are new walk ons from montverde and new pal. 

I noticed them.  Just didn't recognize them.  

[IUFLA]

6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I don’t think it’s a ploy, I think it’s legit concerns that teenagers have and this is how they’re reacting. It probably doesn’t sit well with any coach, but if that is someone any coach is counting on they’re probably going to still try and get that guy on campus. 

I think you underestimate the resolve people of Woody's generation will show when they have someone's word...

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

I think you underestimate the resolve people of Woody's generation will show when they have someone's word...

I don’t even understand what you’re saying. Do you think he’s going to tell 18 year olds to take a hike if they aren’t sure about what is best for them? Or is he going to force them to come to IU when they’re unsure it’s still the best option for them?

You’re making pretty sweeping, generic statements and I’m not sure what you’re actually saying. Hence my “confusion”. 

[Steubenhoosier]

I have given this topic some thought and have some questions/concerns that I hope can be discussed here.

There have been multiple posters that have made the comment that JHS' one season under the tutelage of CMW will pay in spades as an allure to other recruits looking to get to the NBA. This is undoubtedly true, but it raises the following concerns:

Are we in the business of attracting highly rated guys primarily to get them to the next level, or are we in the business of trying to win championships? I realize that they might be one in the same goals, but I think the task will be much tougher if we continue to bring guys in whose only intention is to be in college for one year. The stars would have to align completely perfectly for a group of players to arrive at the same time/gel/play their best ball in one year, the same year, to result in a championship. Does the attraction of these guys turn off the players who would normally grow and develop over the course of several years, and who are imperative as parts of the glue needed to develop a championship team? Do these guys see their playing time eroded to the point that the portal becomes more attractive?

I get it, we need the dudes. But if the promise is that we can get you to the next level, is that all we become? A feeder system? I want to see the best of the best in the Candy Stripes. However, I don't want to see the program become a revolving door of guys here for a year and then gone the next.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Steubenhoosier

[IUFLA]

15 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Do you think he’s going to tell 18 year olds to take a hike if they aren’t sure about what is best for them?

I don't think he's going to negotiate after the fact. Numerous recruits have said he doesn't make any promises about playing time. You're going to compete for that...

If NIL opportunities have been presented and were agreeable, I don't think Woody's the type to bend to a request to up the ante just so they'll stay...

It's the kids option...if he doesn't think what he signed up for is adequate, then he can look elsewhere, and that's fine...

 

[13th&Jackson]

15 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I don't think he's going to negotiate after the fact.

 

Yes, in the business world we called that re-trading an agreement. That poisons a relationship. 

[dgambill]

39 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I have given this topic some thought and have some questions/concerns that I hope can be discussed here.

There have been multiple posters that have made the comment that JHS' one season under the tutelage of CMW will pay in spades as an allure to other recruits looking to get to the NBA. This is undoubtedly true, but it raises the following concerns:

Are we in the business of attracting highly rated guys primarily to get them to the next level, or are we in the business of trying to win championships? I realize that they might be one in the same goals, but I think the task will be much tougher if we continue to bring guys in whose only intention is to be in college for one year. The stars would have to align completely perfectly for a group of players to arrive at the same time/gel/play their best ball in one year, the same year, to result in a championship. Does the attraction of these guys turn off the players who would normally grow and develop over the course of several years, and who are imperative as parts of the glue needed to develop a championship team? Do these guys see their playing time eroded to the point that the portal becomes more attractive?

I get it, we need the dudes. But if the promise is that we can get you to the next level, is that all we become? A feeder system? I want to see the best of the best in the Candy Stripes. However, I don't want to see the program become a revolving door of guys here for a year and then gone the next.

 

 

 

guys to help them get to the next l

I think we definitely have suffered with a lack of talent. You need NBA talent on your roster if you are going to make consistent deep runs in the tournament and win your league. It doesn’t mean you have to be Duke and UK bringing in 5-7 freshman a year and retaining none of them with most going to nba, but to me the balance point is having probably 3-4 of those level guys on your roster at all times. Whether that be a couple freshman and a couple upper class man that have developed. It’s about stacking classes and not just getting one stud every 3 or 4 years like we’ve seen at IU. You bring in even just one lottery kid a year to pair with a group of really good teammates and you can do something special. It isn’t the only way…but I think it’s a sure fire way to have really successful teams consistently…and if you are doing that then the chance you have one of those magical March runs will have to go up. Just more bites at the apple gives you more opportunities for success. I don’t ever see us being UK/Cal but I also think bringing in a couple studs to mix with the right type of 4 year guys and I see good things from us. We’ve seen this in the past from teams like North Carolina and Villanova.

[bluegrassIU]

1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Yes, in the business world we called that re-trading an agreement. That poisons a relationship. 

Re-gifting poisons relationships too. Especially when you accidentally "return to sender"  

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I have given this topic some thought and have some questions/concerns that I hope can be discussed here.

There have been multiple posters that have made the comment that JHS' one season under the tutelage of CMW will pay in spades as an allure to other recruits looking to get to the NBA. This is undoubtedly true, but it raises the following concerns:

Are we in the business of attracting highly rated guys primarily to get them to the next level, or are we in the business of trying to win championships? I realize that they might be one in the same goals, but I think the task will be much tougher if we continue to bring guys in whose only intention is to be in college for one year. The stars would have to align completely perfectly for a group of players to arrive at the same time/gel/play their best ball in one year, the same year, to result in a championship. Does the attraction of these guys turn off the players who would normally grow and develop over the course of several years, and who are imperative as parts of the glue needed to develop a championship team? Do these guys see their playing time eroded to the point that the portal becomes more attractive?

I get it, we need the dudes. But if the promise is that we can get you to the next level, is that all we become? A feeder system? I want to see the best of the best in the Candy Stripes. However, I don't want to see the program become a revolving door of guys here for a year and then gone the next.

 

 

A few thoughts on this. First, I'm going to not limit it to one and done and speak on sort of the McDonald's AA type recruit vs the rest. 

I think to win big for the most part, you need those McDonald's AA type of recruits. You need the Zeller's, Yogi's, Vonleh's, Bryant's, TJD's, JHS's (I realize he wasn't a McDonald's AA but he was close), Mgbako's, etc.. At IU, you need those guys and you need them regularly. 

With that said, to win big consistently (keyword being 'consistently'), as important, or maybe even more, is how are you developing the guys in the 40/50 - 100 range in terms of the rankings. Specifically the guys in that range that come in with either an NBA level skill or NBA level body type, but have a missing piece. 

I think that part is really important to sustaining success, especially when one or two of those McDonald's AA's are one and done. How are you developing guys like Tamar Bates, Malik Reneau, Kaleb Banks, Jakai Newton, etc. Those guys have some combination of NBA size, length and/or athleticism, so are you turning those guys into 2-4 year guys that are eventually in the NBA conversation? Are they leaving Indiana with a legitimate shot of getting drafted somewhere? 

I put this mostly on Bates and not the staff, but where are we heading into next season if Bates, a top 50 recruit, was able to step in last season after XJ went down and be a legit 10ppg or so scoring wing/guard? Maybe he declares this offseason and gets feedback and returns, and then we have a junior wing who is primed for a breakout season and then getting drafted next season. 

I'm just using Bates as an example there. Take Jakai Newton, that guy has NBA length and athleticism. Can IU turn him into an NBA player after 2-3 years? If we can, and we continue to add the Mgbako's, Ware's, JHS's of the world, then IU will be in excellent shape. 

But again, I think the long term health is turning as many of these 40-100 ranked guys into NBA prospects as possible. They don't all have to be 12 year NBA vets, but are we turning them into legit prospects? That's really important IMO.