This is wild

[dgambill]

On 9/28/2023 at 7:25 AM, btownqb said:

Fan sounds like a bum.  

Maybe…but the fans pay the tickets and subscribe to BTN etc to pay the coaches…while it wasn’t appropriate it is a fair representation of what a majority of IU fans feel is it not. Basically his opinion is the fans opinion so I guess we are all bums.

Doesn’t mean anything should happen but sometimes these coaches are insulated by the media that want access who won’t ask hard questions or put them on the spot. A better question would be how are you holding your staff accountable for the poor performances…specifically on the offensive side of the ball? Do you plan to do anything differently there? Where do you believe is the disconnect from what you are trying to do to what the players are putting out there on the field because to be fair it’s pretty ugly execution.

[dgambill]

20 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

And coached for 10. That's more than you've done, yeah? 

Here’s an idea…let this guy coach the offense next week and if he does a better job we fire Bell…if he doesn’t then he can sit down and be quiet. The ultimate experiment for the arm chair coach. We would get tons of attention in the national media…put IU football on the map!! 😂

Edited September 29, 2023 by dgambill

[KoB2011]

24 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Here’s an idea…let this guy coach the offense next week and if he does a better job we fire Bell…if he doesn’t then he can sit down and be quiet. The ultimate experiment for the arm chair coach. We would get tons of attention in the national media…put IU football on the map!! 😂

Are we this pathetic as a fanbase? We think if Walt Bell can do a better job than a fan he should keep his job?

It's no wonder IU football is a joke. He said the most obvious thing in a polite way and our fans are defending the coaching staff that has stopped all momentum that was built by Kalen Deboer and Michael Penix.

Oh how I long for the days of Nate Sudfeld and Kevin Wilson, where we were at least entertaining to watch if we couldn't win games. 

 

EDIT: To be clear, not calling you pathetic. Just the fact that we are defending a hapless coach because a fan pointed out that "it's a business" is baffling to me. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by KoB2011
Clarification

[NotIThatLives]

17 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Are we this pathetic as a fanbase? We think if Walt Bell can do a better job than a fan he should keep his job?

It's no wonder IU football is a joke. He said the most obvious thing in a polite way and our fans are defending the coaching staff that has stopped all momentum that was built by Kalen Deboer and Michael Penix.

Oh how I long for the days of Nate Sudfeld and Kevin Wilson, where we were at least entertaining to watch if we couldn't win games. 

 

EDIT: To be clear, not calling you pathetic. Just the fact that we are defending a hapless coach because a fan pointed out that "it's a business" is baffling to me. 

It's a picture of how weak our society has become.  What's actually wrong with accountability?  I've only ever grown from it.  I welcome it.  Just talked to my mom last night about it.  Tell me hard things if I'm wrong as a son, husband, father.  I give older, more experienced and knowledgeable guys on the job permission to step in and tell me if I'm wrong and how to do it right.  Life should constantly be a picture of someone pulling you up while you reach back and pull someone up too.  

Not calling anyone weak.  We just need a mental shift to handle hard truth again.  And my word.  Dude gets paid 5 million dollars a year to coach poorly.  Step it up.  To whom much is given, much is expected.   I bet Tom Allen preaches it and even believes it.  He can handle it.   And if he can't,  like the guy said.  We love you, but maybe just be an assistant athletic director of cheering and community.   

Edited September 29, 2023 by NotIThatLives

[BobSaccamanno]

18 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Are we this pathetic as a fanbase? We think if Walt Bell can do a better job than a fan he should keep his job?

It's no wonder IU football is a joke. He said the most obvious thing in a polite way and our fans are defending the coaching staff that has stopped all momentum that was built by Kalen Deboer and Michael Penix.

Oh how I long for the days of Nate Sudfeld and Kevin Wilson, where we were at least entertaining to watch if we couldn't win games. 

 

EDIT: To be clear, not calling you pathetic. Just the fact that we are defending a hapless coach because a fan pointed out that "it's a business" is baffling to me. 

The idea that the dufus is better than Bell is laughable.  

[KoB2011]

Just now, BobSaccamanno said:

The idea that the dufus is better than Bell is laughable.  

Yeah.... who in the world said otherwise? The fact that those defending Bell are using that as some kind of point in defense of Bell is INCREDIBLY laughable. 

[Hoosierinbham]

My biggest concern, other than the poor offensive performance, is Bell doubling down on the option as an effective "play action" strategy for this offense. Hopefully CTA has ripped him in private and pointed out from a defensive mindset how easy it is to defend at this level with our personnel. That comment to me just screamed a defiant, ignorant mindset.

[BobSaccamanno]

Look, this guy is in no position to stand there in front of the coach and tell him to do anything just because he pays for a ticket and brags that he’s an entitled loudmouth.   I suspect Bell won’t be back next year based on Allen’s own thought process.  He’s not doing it because some self important moron with a mic tries to “educate” him.  Nothing is happening that isn’t obvious to Allen.  That’s insulting particularly in a public setting.  

[BobSaccamanno]

3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah.... who in the world said otherwise? The fact that those defending Bell are using that as some kind of point in defense of Bell is INCREDIBLY laughable. 

I’m not defending Bell.  I am challenging the idiocy of what that guy did.  

[Hoosierinbham]

Just now, BobSaccamanno said:

Look, this guy is in no position to stand there in front of the coach and tell him to do anything just because he pays for a ticket and brags that he’s an entitled loudmouth.   I suspect Bell won’t be back next year based on Allen’s own thought process.  He’s not doing it because some self important moron with a mic tries to “educate” him.  Nothing is happening that isn’t obvious to Allen.  That’s insulting particularly in a public setting.  

I'm a neutral observer in this debate, but I thought CTA took most of the comments pretty well. His facial expression definitely changed with the discussion of the business of decision making. It has to eat him up seeing how bad Bell is doing, and knowing he chose him for that role. I would suggest he call Kalen Deboer and ask for a reference for future OC hires, because 75% of Allen’s OC choices have been terrible.

[BobSaccamanno]

Just to be clear, things I would NOT be doing:

1. Keep running Lucas between the tackles. 
2. Putting Lucas in a position to block in the pocket 

3.  Run the option with TJ.  (Sorbsy could run it if he ends up playing and Williams definitely could.)   This is exacerbated by calls to the short end of the field where the boundary is like an additional defender   

4.  Call slow developing plays several yards behind the line of scrimmage with guys running pitch back reverses or flea flickers.  I don’t think any have worked and you lose 5-7 yards 

5. Run smash mouth up the middle in short yardage 

Things I would do

1. Put Lucas in motion and have him release from the slot at times or have him run in space 

2. If Henderson is hurt, run Howland between the tackles.  He’s 240 lbs and let’s see what his power can bring

3.  Get TJ more layup passes into the flat or on slants or dump offs to the backs.  

4. I’d look at some changes on the interior offensive line in terms of personnel 

5. If you want to run wildcat with DM, don’t wait for obvious situations 

6. Run more motion in general.  Will help TJ with his reads.  Presumably he learned from that play where Lucas was in motion and ended up wide open. Easy read.  Won’t make that mistake twice.   I think we can get easier throws to Coop and Carter.   Can still take shots to Camper but don’t leave yourself in tough yardage if you miss.  

Edited September 29, 2023 by BobSaccamanno

[BobSaccamanno]

If Lucas makes it to the NFL he will never be asked to run between the tackles or be in pass pro.  It’s a colossal waste of time to try to develop him that way.  

[BobSaccamanno]

If the UMass transfer on the line gets healthy I suspect he might get inserted into the lineup.  Allen keeps complimenting Carpenter so I doubt he gets supplanted.  Maybe one of the guard spots.  I think he’s a good player.  

[KoB2011]

55 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Look, this guy is in no position to stand there in front of the coach and tell him to do anything just because he pays for a ticket and brags that he’s an entitled loudmouth.   I suspect Bell won’t be back next year based on Allen’s own thought process.  He’s not doing it because some self important moron with a mic tries to “educate” him.  Nothing is happening that isn’t obvious to Allen.  That’s insulting particularly in a public setting.  

What is the point of the coaches show? Unless we are here to say it's supposed to be 100% 'Ra Ra' when things are going terribly I don't see how the guy could have said that any softer than he did.

And maybe that's the issue is some of you guys don't think anyone should be critical on a coaches show - I don't agree, but if that's where you're coming from that's fine I guess. 

[BobSaccamanno]

11 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

What is the point of the coaches show? Unless we are here to say it's supposed to be 100% 'Ra Ra' when things are going terribly I don't see how the guy could have said that any softer than he did.

And maybe that's the issue is some of you guys don't think anyone should be critical on a coaches show - I don't agree, but if that's where you're coming from that's fine I guess. 

Come on. He could have asked it as a question about play calling.   Not being embarrassing.  

It’s not like Allen is going to say “oh jeez.  I hadn’t thought of that until some puffy 60 year old publicly embarrassed him.  Now I will.  I hadn’t considered it.“  It’s nuts, insulting, obnoxious and undermines the program.  

The much smarter way to address the same thing is to ask a question about certain calls.   

The sense of entitlement the idiot had was ridiculous.   And no I don’t think he’s a bright guy and yes he makes IU look bad.   Between him and Allen, Allen looks a lot better.  Allen just ignored him and didn’t engage him.  Good for him.  

If someone did this to Woody you’d be saying the same thing.  You just are endorsing it because you’re mad about almost losing.  Yet you’re not focusing on DM’s easy TD drop, Tayven playing a lousy game, the blocking up front not being able to push Akron off the ball, giving up an huge run etc.  IU should have won by 17-21 points easily with basic execution.  

[BobSaccamanno]

He reminds me of that knucklehead who sent TJD that handwritten letter calling him soft.  There is something fundamentally wrong with these guys.  

[5fouls]

This is the way I see it. 

If you go up to a person you perceive to be unattractive and tell them to their face they are homely, then that's rude.

On the flips side, if you have a nephew who is missing classes and spending more time partying at college instead of studying, and you let him know you're disappointed in his effort and push him to make lifestyle changes, that's perfectly acceptable even though you are not his parent, and he is not your direct responsibility.   

This falls somewhere in between.

The one thing I will say is that if you are criticizing what the guy did, then you should not be complaining about the play calling on this board.  If you feel he is out of place, then doing the same thing while hiding behind the anonymity of a screen name doesn't make it right.    

[NotIThatLives]

Who says Indiana football doesn't have fans who care?  

Views now up to 699.9k

Probably break a million by end of weekend.  

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

Are we this pathetic as a fanbase? We think if Walt Bell can do a better job than a fan he should keep his job?

It's no wonder IU football is a joke. He said the most obvious thing in a polite way and our fans are defending the coaching staff that has stopped all momentum that was built by Kalen Deboer and Michael Penix.

Oh how I long for the days of Nate Sudfeld and Kevin Wilson, where we were at least entertaining to watch if we couldn't win games. 

 

EDIT: To be clear, not calling you pathetic. Just the fact that we are defending a hapless coach because a fan pointed out that "it's a business" is baffling to me. 

I know you know I was joking…so it isn’t personal lol. Not only do I miss entertaining offenses we had but I actually believe it’s our best way to win football games.
In the B1G you aren’t going to win by being bigger, stronger, deeper, and have better talent than Michigan, OSU, PSU and soon USC and Oregon and the likes. You need to throw a curve ball at those teams. Be hard to prepare for…unconventional, and most important opportunistic. Playing fast, spreading out and having dynamic playmakers on the outside, maybe force a couple turnovers. I just don’t see us building this juggernaut of a program where we have talent on both sides of the ball and playing physical football where we dominate those teams for 4 quarters. 
 

Win or lose I’d just like to play fun and exciting football. It was very good under those guys. I like Allen as a person…I also think he is a good motivator and the players like playing for him…but man the execution, play calling, and design on the offensive side of the ball has been atrocious.

[13th&Jackson]

2 hours ago, Hoosierinbham said:

My biggest concern, other than the poor offensive performance, is Bell doubling down on the option as an effective "play action" strategy for this offense. Hopefully CTA has ripped him in private and pointed out from a defensive mindset how easy it is to defend at this level with our personnel. That comment to me just screamed a defiant, ignorant mindset.

Not only is Bell the OC, he's the QB coach. Does anyone believe that he's the right guy to develop TJ?

[dgambill]

I’ll say this. At least he has the balls to say it to his face. Not hiding behind a screen. I don’t agree with how he constructed what he was saying but I also don’t pretend not to agree with his frustration. I hate calling for someone’s job because by golly we all have been through a job loss and that is someone’s family that is effected but if his goal was to let Allen know the frustration of the typical paying IU fan…and he wanted to put the AD on notice his feelings so be it. I don’t think he is a jerk, but also he isn’t going to get an interaction from Tom either. Again I posted what I would have asked instead but it’s a tough job…the criticism was fair even if it makes us feel uncomfortable.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Come on. He could have asked it as a question about play calling.   Not being embarrassing.  

It’s not like Allen is going to say “oh jeez.  I hadn’t thought of that until some puffy 60 year old publicly embarrassed him.  Now I will.  I hadn’t considered it.“  It’s nuts, insulting, obnoxious and undermines the program.  

The much smarter way to address the same thing is to ask a question about certain calls.   

The sense of entitlement the idiot had was ridiculous.   And no I don’t think he’s a bright guy and yes he makes IU look bad.   Between him and Allen, Allen looks a lot better.  Allen just ignored him and didn’t engage him.  Good for him.  

If someone did this to Woody you’d be saying the same thing.  You just are endorsing it because you’re mad about almost losing.  Yet you’re not focusing on DM’s easy TD drop, Tayven playing a lousy game, the blocking up front not being able to push Akron off the ball, giving up an huge run etc.  IU should have won by 17-21 points easily with basic execution.  

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't think a fan asking a question like that makes IU look bad, I think Allen doing what he did after the Akron game makes us look bad. I think Allen refusing to bring in good coaches on offense makes us look bad. I think Allen being loyal to the individual coaches over the team, the school, and the alumni, makes us look bad.

If you're this upset about some random fan asking a question about this being a business, how do you feel about the guy getting paid millions to actually embarrass us on Saturdays? 

 

[KoB2011]

34 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I like Allen as a person…I also think he is a good motivator and the players like playing for him…but man the execution, play calling, and design on the offensive side of the ball has been atrocious.

I agree, with the caveat that I think the guys are starting to become stale to him. The 'ra ra' and all the great things about Tom Allen fall flat at some point when you aren't playing well - you could see it on the guys face in the postgame after Akron. That schtick was a lot more embarrassing than random fan asking a question. 

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree, with the caveat that I think the guys are starting to become stale to him. The 'ra ra' and all the great things about Tom Allen fall flat at some point when you aren't playing well - you could see it on the guys face in the postgame after Akron. That schtick was a lot more embarrassing than random fan asking a question. 

It isn’t a Schtick in my opinion….I know him jumping around like that annoyed a lot of people but I think he is genuine to himself. LEO thing too…but yes if the results aren’t there…that will wear thin. Am I wrong in just thinking I think he would be a great defensive coordinator/special teams coach  but just isn’t the right guy to lead a whole program?? I just think he is lost and has no vision or concept of what we should be on the other side of the ball…or how to get us there. We have him for another year regardless…so he will likely fire Bell and he will have one last shot to get it right…hope he does for our sake.

[BobSaccamanno]

17 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't think a fan asking a question like that makes IU look bad, I think Allen doing what he did after the Akron game makes us look bad. I think Allen refusing to bring in good coaches on offense makes us look bad. I think Allen being loyal to the individual coaches over the team, the school, and the alumni, makes us look bad.

If you're this upset about some random fan asking a question about this being a business, how do you feel about the guy getting paid millions to actually embarrass us on Saturdays? 

 

That’s just it.  He went right up to Allen and said to fire him.  It wasn’t a question.   To take @5fouls point, that is like calling someone’s friend or colleague he hired ugly on statewide radio.