IUBB '24/‘25

[Kdug]

10 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm tired of seeing references on social media about how 'young' IU is.

- Johnson, Galloway, Walker, and Leal are Seniors or even Super-Seniors.

- Sparks is a Junior and an all-conference performer at his previous school.

- Reneau, Banks, and Gunn are midway through their Sophomore season within the program.

- Ware is a Sophomore as well, though new to the system.  That said, effort is the bigger story than youth in his case.  Yes, maybe youth contributes to effort.  But, there are guys starring in the NBA right now with his skill set with similar youth.  Effort is not age dependent.

- That leaves us with 2, that's right, only TWO, guys on the team that should be able to make any sort of case regarding 'youth'. Mgbako and Cupps.  His Taco Bell incident indicates that Mgbako may have some growing to do if the court in addition to growth in th he court.  Cupps, frankly, is not ready to be a major contributor on a winning high-major team.

Nope, outside of the two freshman, the 'youth' narrative is garbage.

Agreed with most of this, except for two things:

1. I don’t think the knock on Ware and effort is legitimate. I think you could say he can be pushed around or be a bit soft, but that’s more due to him being thin and not an effort thing imo.

2. Agreed that experience isn’t a legitimate excuse for how we’ve played thus far. That being said, we rank as the 328th oldest team by minutes played in the country - or 35th youngest if you prefer looking at it that way. Calling IU a young team is just factually correct. If we were ranked 40th or 50th, I could see it being a reason for not being better, but we should still be better than 100th. The only two teams younger than IU who project as at large tourney teams are Duke and Kentucky.

[13th&Jackson]

I hate it that I was accurate in my concerns on 12/18 from the Woodson thread, but it was just too easy to foresee:

13th&Jackson

• Posted December 18, 2023

  On 12/18/2023 at 12:43 PM, IUFLA said:

Yeah, I worry about a let down after the short turnaround...Especially with our youth...

I thought we showed a lot too...And I think those first 4 games after we finish the non-conference schedule (@Nebraska, OSU at home, @Rutgers, and Minnesota at home) can put us in good position when we hit the rough part of our schedule...

I think the first part of the 2024 B1G schedule is very dangerous for IU. The Huskers have back to back wins against MIch St and Ks St. Also, we never play well against Rutgers at the RAC and have lost four straight there. Plus they’ll be coming off back to back B1G road games and may be desperate. Don’t expect IU to be road favorites in either game. We could easily drop two of the next three B1G games (not saying we definitely will) and that’s assuming we take care of business at home against a very talented, but young OSU squad. 

 

[94hoosier]

Ware is just not strong.  He gets bumped and can’t hang onto the ball or keep his balance. 

 

MM needs to learn to play with  thru contact and get stronger too. 

 

Reneau does jump well in a crowd and needs to learn to use his body to move guys. 

 

If this team could rebound the ball with fumbling it around they would get out in transition more. Not give up so many offensive rebounds. Put game pressure on the other team. And have more wins

X needs to quit acting like a punk and complaining about every call. When plays good and under control we are tough to beat. When plays out of control and too fast we suck

 

[94hoosier]

I get that x got tossed and deserved too. How it the play stopped and a foul called on Rutgers player. Switched to X and nothing given to the rutgers kid for forearm shiver. I get X sold it a little bit. But the kid went after X and at a minimum should have been given a dead ball T if you are stoping the play at the nut sack tap. Both players should have been tossed. IU should have shot T foul shots. probably would have missed but still have to call it

[5fouls]

27 minutes ago, Kdug said:

Agreed with most of this, except for two things:

1. I don’t think the knock on Ware and effort is legitimate. I think you could say he can be pushed around or be a bit soft, but that’s more due to him being thin and not an effort thing imo.

2. Agreed that experience isn’t a legitimate excuse for how we’ve played thus far. That being said, we rank as the 328th oldest team by minutes played in the country - or 35th youngest if you prefer looking at it that way. Calling IU a young team is just factually correct. If we were ranked 40th or 50th, I could see it being a reason for not being better, but we should still be better than 100th. The only two teams younger than IU who project as at large tourney teams are Duke and Kentucky.

#2 impacted by X's injury, which, now that he is back, does not excuse team performances like last night.  Assuming he doesnt go Draymond on us, we're going to start getting 'older' in that ranking.

Edited January 10 by 5fouls

[Kdug]

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

#2 impacted by X's injury, which, now that he is back, does not excuse team performances like last night.  Assuming he doesnt go Draymond on us, we're going to start getting 'older' in that ranking.

Right. Just pointing out that to this point, IU has been an objectively “young” team since X has been out most games.

Agreed that last nights performance was unacceptable, and it starts with our experienced player getting himself ejected after playing terribly before that.

[KoB2011]

59 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

As I said Coach Woodson isn't the one who missed the free throws or the open 3s... Woodson's job is to put kids in a position to succeed...whether they do or not is up to the kids themselves...

You can lead a horse to water... 

But this is the crux of it - he isn't doing a good job of this consistently. I don't doubt he's capable, but I think he's very clearly stubborn.

When he gets asked difficult questions about what he is doing he dodges it, throws the players on the bus, but then ends with "I've got to get them over the hump".

If I'm a player and I hear what he says I tune out whatever he says to me.

[KoB2011]

56 minutes ago, 94hoosier said:

I get that x got tossed and deserved too. How it the play stopped and a foul called on Rutgers player. Switched to X and nothing given to the rutgers kid for forearm shiver. I get X sold it a little bit. But the kid went after X and at a minimum should have been given a dead ball T if you are stoping the play at the nut sack tap. Both players should have been tossed. IU should have shot T foul shots. probably would have missed but still have to call it

They didn't stop play at the nutsack tap, the stopped play at the personal foul on the Rutgers player. That foul was called.

You want to argue that it was an F1 for a shove? I mean I guess, but I think it was handled correctly and I wish refs would consistently do that. You see someone do a cheap shot? Deal with that person, not someone who has a very normal, expected response to pushing you after you do that. 

[Purdue7]

25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

They didn't stop play at the nutsack tap, the stopped play at the personal foul on the Rutgers player. That foul was called.

You want to argue that it was an F1 for a shove? I mean I guess, but I think it was handled correctly and I wish refs would consistently do that. You see someone do a cheap shot? Deal with that person, not someone who has a very normal, expected response to pushing you after you do that. 

If there was no nut tap it was an F1 on Rutgers for sure….maybe F2

 

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

But this is the crux of it - he isn't doing a good job of this consistently. I don't doubt he's capable, but I think he's very clearly stubborn.

When he gets asked difficult questions about what he is doing he dodges it, throws the players on the bus, but then ends with "I've got to get them over the hump".

If I'm a player and I hear what he says I tune out whatever he says to me.

I'm not sure what you're saying...Trey Galloway missed 4 wide open 3s last night, and FTs are the most basic practice items there are...Woody's offense got Trey those looks...It got guys to the line...He can't shoot it for them too...

There's a lot of interaction that we miss...we listen to a 10 minute post game...He's around these kids 15-20 hours or more per week...I'm quite sure they're not "tuning him out." The same thing was said after losses last year...

[IUALUM03]

2 hours ago, ledies22 said:

Notre Dame

Nebraska I would argue is closer, but ND isn't far off. 

[KoB2011]

21 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I'm not sure what you're saying...Trey Galloway missed 4 wide open 3s last night, and FTs are the most basic practice items there are...Woody's offense got Trey those looks...It got guys to the line...He can't shoot it for them too...

There's a lot of interaction that we miss...we listen to a 10 minute post game...He's around these kids 15-20 hours or more per week...I'm quite sure they're not "tuning him out." The same thing was said after losses last year...

I don’t agree we run consistently good stuff. There’s a pretty clear difference in what we do schematically in certain instances. It’s pretty clear certain lineup combos don’t work and he gets testy when asked why he keeps playing them.

But even if we just say, “yes Woody consistently does a good job with the offense we run and it’s the players fault”, what does it say if this is the best backcourt he could bring in. X and Trey have been with him every year he’s been here, has he not developed them well? Why hasn’t he brought in other guards? We have an open scholarship…

Anyway you slice it, this is Woody’s mess. I’d like to see more ownership and accountability from him before he blames the players. 

[94hoosier]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

They didn't stop play at the nutsack tap, the stopped play at the personal foul on the Rutgers player. That foul was called.

You want to argue that it was an F1 for a shove? I mean I guess, but I think it was handled correctly and I wish refs would consistently do that. You see someone do a cheap shot? Deal with that person, not someone who has a very normal, expected response to pushing you after you do that. 

Sorry

I thought they removed the foul from rutgers player. That makes sense.  I do believe that an F1 or F2 should have been called on rutgers player. he went after X and shoved him to the ground. 

[NCHoosier32]

i was not excited about the hire in the first place due to having no college coaching experience.  Matta and Fife gave me hope.  that didn't work out.  i have liked the alumni reaction and feel around the program, but just feel like it's clear we need a proven winner at the college level.  that said, i can't imagine them firing Woodson after this season.  i know things are much different than the old days, but discipline should matter.  on the court and off the court.  accountability can make a big difference.  this season leaves not much choice with no one ideally suited to play the 3.  every minute with 3 guys who should be playing the 4 or 5 on the floor together is going to be painful to watch offensively.  the even more scary thing is whether he seems ready or not, Ware will be gone.  he's a 7 footer with skills.  potential.  still have a feeling that Mtaco won't be back one way or the other.  it's just not working.  i do agree that if he were back and played the 4 with McNeeley at the 3 and Reneau at the 5, we'd have a decent start, but we need experienced guards who know how to play the game right and that can shoot.  

[94hoosier]

47 minutes ago, Purdue7 said:

If there was no nut tap it was an F1 on Rutgers for sure….maybe F2

 

Then it still should have been. They both deserved a F1 or F2. It is poor officiating to say your attack was a response so we will give you a pass.  Two wrongs don’t make it right

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i was not excited about the hire in the first place due to having no college coaching experience.  Matta and Fife gave me hope.  that didn't work out.  i have liked the alumni reaction and feel around the program, but just feel like it's clear we need a proven winner at the college level.  that said, i can't imagine them firing Woodson after this season.  i know things are much different than the old days, but discipline should matter.  on the court and off the court.  accountability can make a big difference.  this season leaves not much choice with no one ideally suited to play the 3.  every minute with 3 guys who should be playing the 4 or 5 on the floor together is going to be painful to watch offensively.  the even more scary thing is whether he seems ready or not, Ware will be gone.  he's a 7 footer with skills.  potential.  still have a feeling that Mtaco won't be back one way or the other.  it's just not working.  i do agree that if he were back and played the 4 with McNeeley at the 3 and Reneau at the 5, we'd have a decent start, but we need experienced guards who know how to play the game right and that can shoot.  

At least at Montverde, McNeely starts at the 2 but he should be a 3 in college 

[13th&Jackson]

59 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i was not excited about the hire in the first place due to having no college coaching experience.  Matta and Fife gave me hope.  that didn't work out.  i have liked the alumni reaction and feel around the program, but just feel like it's clear we need a proven winner at the college level.  that said, i can't imagine them firing Woodson after this season. 

Yeah, no chance of that. 

[Artesian_86]

7 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Yeah, no chance of that. 

The only way I could see Dolson and the boosters even briefly entertaining the idea, is if we completely bomb the rest of the season, coaches unable to agree/work together with Woodson, multiple players wanting to transfer and 24' commits backing out. This sounds similar to what was happening with Coach Miller before he was fired. JMO

[John S]

1 hour ago, 94hoosier said:

Sorry

I thought they removed the foul from rutgers player. That makes sense.  I do believe that an F1 or F2 should have been called on rutgers player. he went after X and shoved him to the ground. 

It was a light shove, look at how dramatically punk X went down.  Even the clueless announcers complimented the "6-yr Senior" for his "smart leadership".   I agree X is smart,,,,, a SMART ass.

[BGleas]

It's crystal clear. How is the staff not recognizing this?

 

 

[KoB2011]

19 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's crystal clear. How is the staff not recognizing this?

 

 

Because he is stubborn. They have all this data too and they’re either too stubborn to use it or too stubborn to change.

Woody has a good basketball mind, his stuff out of timeouts prove it. His absolute arrogance is killing his right now. It is the opposite of good leadership that he is giving us. 

[Purdue7]

CMW isn’t accountable 

He doesn’t hold players accountable 

If he did he benches a few 

[Steubenhoosier]

I have not wasted my time reading this thread.

Critism that our offense didn’t emphasize the 3 point shot.

We shot 26 3’s v Rutgers.

If there is any criticism, it’s that we didn’t make enough of them.

Coach’s fault?

[IUCrazy2]

8 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I have not wasted my time reading this thread.

Critism that our offense didn’t emphasize the 3 point shot.

We shot 26 3’s v Rutgers.

If there is any criticism, it’s that we didn’t make enough of them.

Coach’s fault?

Yes, it is his in part fault (sometimes shots don't go in so there is that) and people have pointed out why it is his fault on several occasions.  Why?  Well let me list those for you.

1.  Has shooting been an issue since before he got here? Yes.  Has this been a known issue to anyone paying any amount of attention? Yes.  What was done to address it in the off-season.  What shooters were brought in?

2.  Knowing the above, do we have an open scholarship not being used?  If so, why did we not get another shooter?  We couldn't find one more guard out of the over 1000 dudes that were in the portal?  Forget the fact that everything we chose to add was big men, but why leave one spot open knowing we needed a shooter and a ball handler?  

3.  Our scheme is not designed to get shots for open players.  Our pick and rolls are set to get our bigs open going to the basket.  Almost every other team we play has their bigs setting high picks in an attempt to pressure with the 3 point shot.  And they get a bunch of open ones because we are always going under the screen or switching late.  They have a scheme to get 3 point shots.  A scheme they run consistently.  We don't.

4.  We get the ball on the interior.  When that happens you can get open looks, particularly when you are getting double and triple teamed in the post.  Our posts are either God awful at recognizing their open teammates or they are told to attack the basket whenever they get the ball in there.  Both of those are coaching because, even though we have seen Woodson tell Reneau once that he needs to pass, there never really seems to be any consequences for not.

5.  Everything Woodson does has been set in stone.  You are the starter so you start.  We play so many minutes and so all of you sit and all of you go in to play.  He has his way and that is the way it goes.  That's dumb.  Hall of Famer Bob Knight changed his way to fit Isaiah Thomas and that guy was a better coach and more stubborn than Woody.  If that guy could take a look and adjust, then Woody needs to stop being so damn stubborn and do the same.

Everything happening this year is stuff that the "pessimists" have been warning about for awhile.  And the pessimists are usually just regular old people who notice stuff.  Indiana spends millions of dollars on its coaching staff.  If it just comes down to players being the ones who decide things, then let's drop those salaries and bring in somebody who just notices things and can say, "Maybe we should try this guys..."  (And we all know that isn't the case which is why I don't understand why the first reflex to protect a coach who isn't performing super great is to throw the players under the bus.  That isn't super team supportive either.)

[jefftheref]

17 hours ago, BGleas said:

It's crystal clear. How is the staff not recognizing this?

 

 

Incompetence!