The changing face of Indiana University and why I'm stepping away for awhile...

[FKIM01]

Apologies for the length, but I appreciate you all bearing with me while I get this off my chest...

I've been trending this way for awhile, but after last night's poor showing at home against what most consider THE arch-rival, I've come to the conclusion that I waste too much time on my declining IU fandom and it's probably time to step away for awhile.  This is far from just an "I'm pissed about last night's result" decision.  IU has been transforming itself for at least the last 30 years (probably longer) and the more I see of the new IU, the less I like.  The decline of IU basketball is just a symptom of a deeper institutional rot that IU players, the IU coaching staff and even the IU president aren't big enough to reverse, at least not quickly.

I saw a lot of this up close with my daughter spending four years in IU's dental school, culminating last May.  The educational experience was fine, although she told me herself that she wasn't exposed to some procedural aspects of general dentistry that she's simply had to learn on the job because IU's dental program wasn't in position to teach her.  I don't remember what it was, but it wasn't like it was some new experimental procedure.  It was something common like crowns.  Whatever it was, my first thought was, $50,000/year tuition and they don't even teach that?!!  That was far from my first disappointment with IU as an institution of higher learning.  My first conflict came with their militant insistence that we complete a FAFSA even though I told them several times we had no intention of taking any loans and we would not qualify for any financial aid.  I assured them through my daughter that we intended to 100% self-pay.  I thought that would make them happy but they badgered her repeatedly about completing the FAFSA and I hated putting her in the middle.  I finally told her to tell the school administrators that I had no intention of wasting my time completing a FAFSA solely for their curiosity and if they had an issue with simply accepting my tuition payments, they needed to talk to me and leave her alone.

My next conflict with school administrators was over their insistence that we pay for more expensive health insurance that provided inferior coverage vs. what we already had.  Initially, I was able to satisfy them that the insurance already in place was sufficient, but each year, they became more and more picky and insistent until they finally force-placed their more expensive crappy high deductible insurance and put it on my tuition bill.  I told my daughter that I 100% disagreed with their tactics, but wasn't going to make any more waves since it was her last year.  Their tunnel vision giving them only one satisfactory solution to various problems regardless of how students or parents were impacted was a constant source of irritation for me and if I had another child, I would absolutely not pay for an Indiana University education.

These are just a couple of examples of what I see as a much larger problem that's ruining most colleges and universities.  I only have close experience with two (Indiana University and University of Southern Indiana where I graduated), but to varying degrees, I think at least some institutional rot is present at most colleges and universities.  I've encountered a lot of college graduates who, aside from being educated on the necessary subject matter, are being taught how to think and even encouraged to have certain opinions.  I saw it with my own daughter.  I've asked her where some of these opinions came from and long story short, they are very much formed as a result of who she was exposed to in college, rather than her being free to form her own views without bias.  Now that she's away from that influence and exposed to life in the working world, I see evidence that at least some of these new views are changing.  I don't see the influence of what I see as institutional rot being healthy for young minds and I think that spills over into aspects of life outside of a student's education, including how athletes compete on the floor.  The end product is mentally soft teams who fold at the first sign of adversity.  Obviously, that's a vast generalization, but I see a lot of evidence of it at the college level.  Much more so that I see at the high school or professional level, which leads me to believe that the problem is most acute at the college and university level.  High school and professional teams seem to win much more than college teams on the road.  Why is that?  I think I have an idea.  If things don't change at the college level, I see fewer and fewer students being willing to invest in a college education, given the questionable quality of what they receive in return for their tuition dollars.

I could go on and on, talking about how I believe NIL has negatively impacted college sports, among other things that bother me, but I'll close my manifesto here by telling you that I've very much appreciated the HSN community, even those I've openly debated with.  This is a good fanbase that deserves better than the product we're getting and I'm pretty much over wasting time on or caring about Indiana University.  I probably won't go immediately in case any of you want to interact, but I'd say that by the end of the week, I'll log out  and remove the bookmarks from my browser and stay away, at least for awhile.  Winning (a lot) would likely rekindle my interest, but absent that, I have better things to do with my precious time.  Thanks to all who participate positively here...

Edited January 19 by FKIM01
typo

[BADGERVOL]

Well I can add more.

My son got a perfect score on his ACT and could go anywhere. We toured 28 schools across the Midwest and south and East coast. I got to see it all. Everyone with official tours. He was open to considering IU and had gone in MS to a game. He loved the campus.

IU was one of the last we toured heading home on a third road trip.

The tour we got was BY FAR the worst tour of any. The large group time was boring as heck. Poor salesmanship on the school. We got two young men to lead our tour that were so lacking enthusiasm amor knowledge of the school and area (you get asked generally how cold it is in the winter by someone from TX and you say “idk really maybe 10-15 degrees most the winter…idk”) and they couldn’t answer half the questions asked and said his major was boring. Half the people in our tour slipped away during it to just go home. It was painful.

So bad I called the school to give constructive feedback. She assured me there would be changes and due to my sons academic standing if they could have a second chance to have their regional recruiter contact him and discuss the school further and visit him in the coming month or two. I have her his cell and said “I’d like that.”

 

They never called.

[Inequality]

I’ll add this, don’t go. You have been a great contributor to this board for as long as I can remember. We all have a heavy case of apathy. Let’s complain together!

[KoB2011]

Really hate that you feel this way! Hope you'll reconsider. 

[IUCrazy2]

7 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Apologies for the length, but I appreciate you all bearing with me while I get this off my chest...

I've been trending this way for awhile, but after last night's poor showing at home against what most consider THE arch-rival, I've come to the conclusion that I waste too much time on my declining IU fandom and it's probably time to step away for awhile.  This is far from just an "I'm pissed about last night's result" decision.  IU has been transforming itself for at least the last 30 years (probably longer) and the more I see of the new IU, the less I like.  The decline of IU basketball is just a symptom of a deeper institutional rot that IU players, the IU coaching staff and even the IU president aren't big enough to reverse, at least not quickly.

I saw a lot of this up close with my daughter spending four years in IU's dental school, culminating last May.  The educational experience was fine, although she told me herself that she wasn't exposed to some procedural aspects of general dentistry that she's simply had to learn on the job because IU's dental program wasn't in position to teach her.  I don't remember what it was, but it wasn't like it was some new experimental procedure.  It was something common like crowns.  Whatever it was, my first thought was, $50,000/year tuition and they don't even teach that?!!  That was far from my first disappointment with IU as an institution of higher learning.  My first conflict came with their militant insistence that we complete a FAFSA even though I told them several times we had no intention of taking any loans and we would not qualify for any financial aid.  I assured them through my daughter that we intended to 100% self-pay.  I thought that would make them happy but they badgered her repeatedly about completing the FAFSA and I hated putting her in the middle.  I finally told her to tell the school administrators that I had no intention of wasting my time completing a FAFSA solely for their curiosity and if they had an issue with simply accepting my tuition payments, they needed to talk to me and leave her alone.

My next conflict with school administrators was over their insistence that we pay for more expensive health insurance that provided inferior coverage vs. what we already had.  Initially, I was able to satisfy them that the insurance already in place was sufficient, but each year, they became more and more picky and insistent until they finally force-placed their more expensive crappy high deductible insurance and put it on my tuition bill.  I told my daughter that I 100% disagreed with their tactics, but wasn't going to make any more waves since it was her last year.  Their tunnel vision giving them only one satisfactory solution to various problems regardless of how students or parents were impacted was a constant source of irritation for me and if I had another child, I would absolutely not pay for an Indiana University education.

These are just a couple of examples of what I see as a much larger problem that's ruining most colleges and universities.  I only have close experience with two (Indiana University and University of Southern Indiana where I graduated), but to varying degrees, I think at least some institutional rot is present at most colleges and universities.  I've encountered a lot of college graduates who, aside from being educated on the necessary subject matter, are being taught how to think and even encouraged to have certain opinions.  I saw it with my own daughter.  I've asked her where some of these opinions came from and long story short, they are very much formed as a result of who she was exposed to in college, rather than her being free to form her own views without bias.  Now that she's away from that influence and exposed to life in the working world, I see evidence that at least some of these new views are changing.  I don't see the influence of what I see as institutional rot being healthy for young minds and I think that spills over into aspects of life outside of a student's education, including how athletes compete on the floor.  The end product is mentally soft teams who fold at the first sign of adversity.  Obviously, that's a vast generalization, but I see a lot of evidence of it at the college level.  Much more so that I see at the high school or professional level, which leads me to believe that the problem is most acute at the college and university level.  High school and professional teams seem to win much more than college teams on the road.  Why is that?  I think I have an idea.  If things don't change at the college level, I see fewer and fewer students being willing to invest in a college education, given the questionable quality of what they receive in return for their tuition dollars.

I could go on and on, talking about how I believe NIL has negatively impacted college sports, among other things that bother me, but I'll close my manifesto here by telling you that I've very much appreciated the HSN community, even though I've openly debated with.  This is a good fanbase that deserves better than the product we're getting and I'm pretty much over wasting time on or caring about Indiana University.  I probably won't go immediately in case any of you want to interact, but I'd say that by the end of the week, I'll log out  and remove the bookmarks from my browser and stay away, at least for awhile.  Winning (a lot) would likely rekindle my interest, but absent that, I have better things to do with my precious time.  Thanks to all who participate positively here...

Your experience is why I stopped giving money to the school.  Even the measley license plate money.  I cut everything.  My main attachment has been my memories from the time there and my (decreasing) interest in the sports teams.  Indiana U. doesn't reflect my values on most things.  It just is what it is on that front and like you said, I don't see it changing any time soon.

Enjoy life and hopefully the people who make decisions get their head out of their (expletive deleted) enough for you to feel it worthwhile to come back.

Edited January 18 by IUCrazy2

[5fouls]

@FKIM01

I would rather have a colonoscopy than fill out a FAFSA.

Going to have to keep an eye/ear out on that insurance thing.  My son goes to the New Albany campus and lives at home, so have not experienced that.

However, my daughter graduates from HS this year and will be on campus (though not IU).  I will fight that till death if they try and push that on me.

[FKIM01]

39 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

@FKIM01

I would rather have a colonoscopy than fill out a FAFSA.

Going to have to keep an eye/ear out on that insurance thing.  My son goes to the New Albany campus and lives at home, so have not experienced that.

However, my daughter graduates from HS this year and will be on campus (though not IU).  I will fight that till death if they try and push that on me.

It may just be a dental/medical school thing, but I was very annoyed with their arbitrary requirements that made me pay a higher price for a lower quality policy.  I felt like they were telling me they knew better how to take care of my child than I did and I found that personally offensive.

[Drroogh]

4 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

It may just be a dental/medical school thing, but I was very annoyed with their arbitrary requirements that made me pay a higher price for a lower quality policy.  I felt like they were telling me they knew better how to take care of my child than I did and I found that personally offensive.

The know better than you do is only getting worse with AI! What I want is options to experience new things, not what some algorithm says I want!!

[Naturalhoosier]

@FKIM01 That was a well written take. I can’t argue with you on any point you made. With High School kids approaching college, I’m dreading the process. 

[Parakeet Jones]

@FKIM01You will be missed. At least we got to see Will Wade fired together before you left. 
 

My attachment to IU is solely with the athletic department. I did my undergraduate and graduate degrees other places before eventually doing some more post grad work through IU. I was less than impressed with what I experienced. 

Some of my experiences in that post grad work and other things I have read and heard make the institution one that is difficult for me to support. I could go on, but I won’t. 
 

See you around. It’s been fun. 

[Reacher]

I empathize with you @FKIM01. I hope you do stick around and while I can certainly understand your desire to take a step back, I hope you at least check in now and then.

I saw this article the other day - https://www.thecollegefix.com/vanderbilt-has-1-administrator-for-every-2-students-analysis/. If you don't want to read it, schools like Vanderbilt and Northwestern now have an administrator for every 2 students! They are bringing in so much $, they are hiring more (useless) staff. Did the thought ever cross their mind that they could reduce tuition? 

College degrees are becoming worth less and less in all but a few specialty (dental for example) majors. 

Too many kids that I know of do not get the maximum value (education, friends, experiences) that they are paying a fortune for. 

I foresee a lot of smaller schools closing as the demand for in person college wanes and online learning degrees and education become more prevalent. 

The state of our universities seems to be emblematic of so many other areas in our country. It seems like everywhere you look things are falling apart (the airplanes literally are). Our utilities, government, infrastructure, Healthcare and more all seem broken. 

I think the key is to be self sufficient and have a good support group available. I rely on IU sports and you folks here on HSN to get away from the craziness out there.  I can deal with @bluegrassIU much better than the idiot trying to fix my car. 😁

 

[FKIM01]

20 hours ago, Reacher said:

I empathize with you @FKIM01. I hope you do stick around and while I can certainly understand your desire to take a step back, I hope you at least check in now and then.

I saw this article the other day - https://www.thecollegefix.com/vanderbilt-has-1-administrator-for-every-2-students-analysis/. If you don't want to read it, schools like Vanderbilt and Northwestern now have an administrator for every 2 students! They are bringing in so much $, they are hiring more (useless) staff. Did the thought ever cross their mind that they could reduce tuition? 

College degrees are becoming worth less and less in all but a few specialty (dental for example) majors. 

Too many kids that I know of do not get the maximum value (education, friends, experiences) that they are paying a fortune for. 

I foresee a lot of smaller schools closing as the demand for in person college wanes and online learning degrees and education become more prevalent. 

The state of our universities seems to be emblematic of so many other areas in our country. It seems like everywhere you look things are falling apart (the airplanes literally are). Our utilities, government, infrastructure, Healthcare and more all seem broken. 

I think the key is to be self sufficient and have a good support group available. I rely on IU sports and you folks here on HSN to get away from the craziness out there.  I can deal with @bluegrassIU much better than the idiot trying to fix my car. 😁

 

Reading that article made me want to vomit and is very much in tune with what I see as wrong with many colleges and universities, IU included.  Eventually, I think something will come to a head, probably, as you said with a lot of schools drowning in their own financial bloat.  Most businesses could not survive operating like universities and colleges do today.  It will be interesting to see how colleges and college athletics play out over the next 10-20 years as it's really hard for me to feel like today's students are getting their money's worth (I question whether it's been worth it for awhile, frankly) and I see more and more people coming to the same conclusion.

[FKIM01]

Thanks for the kind words, all.  I didn't post this for sympathy or to be asked to stay, but the class of this diverse group showed as I expected it would.  I've been so busy this week I haven't had much time to check in anyway, so this is somewhat of a seasonal sabbatical for me due to the workload, as well as being a mental health break.  I expect I will check in from time to time, but I'm going to make it harder and more intentional for the time-being, so as I said earlier, you'll probably see a lot less of me for awhile.

I really hope IU basketball gets a lot better, although for reasons stated above, I don't see a lot of change in Bloomington no matter who coaches the team.  Woodson is not the problem here (certainly not the biggest problem, IMO, anyway) and I think he does what he can and for the most part, is a pretty good coach who can relate to the players.  I see the problem extending way beyond the basketball team and I only hope the team can rise above the problems I see at the university level.

Anyway, enough of that.  I'll likely be back sooner or later.  The only thing preventing that is the complete and permanent slide/implosion of IU and IU basketball and surely enough people care enough to prevent that.  Until then, talk to you later, Hoosier Sports Nation...

-30-

[IUCrazy2]

 

If this is true, WTH.....

[SawatchHoosier]

On 1/17/2024 at 11:55 AM, FKIM01 said:

Apologies for the length, but I appreciate you all bearing with me while I get this off my chest...

I've been trending this way for awhile, but after last night's poor showing at home against what most consider THE arch-rival, I've come to the conclusion that I waste too much time on my declining IU fandom and it's probably time to step away for awhile.  This is far from just an "I'm pissed about last night's result" decision.  IU has been transforming itself for at least the last 30 years (probably longer) and the more I see of the new IU, the less I like.  The decline of IU basketball is just a symptom of a deeper institutional rot that IU players, the IU coaching staff and even the IU president aren't big enough to reverse, at least not quickly.

I saw a lot of this up close with my daughter spending four years in IU's dental school, culminating last May.  The educational experience was fine, although she told me herself that she wasn't exposed to some procedural aspects of general dentistry that she's simply had to learn on the job because IU's dental program wasn't in position to teach her.  I don't remember what it was, but it wasn't like it was some new experimental procedure.  It was something common like crowns.  Whatever it was, my first thought was, $50,000/year tuition and they don't even teach that?!!  That was far from my first disappointment with IU as an institution of higher learning.  My first conflict came with their militant insistence that we complete a FAFSA even though I told them several times we had no intention of taking any loans and we would not qualify for any financial aid.  I assured them through my daughter that we intended to 100% self-pay.  I thought that would make them happy but they badgered her repeatedly about completing the FAFSA and I hated putting her in the middle.  I finally told her to tell the school administrators that I had no intention of wasting my time completing a FAFSA solely for their curiosity and if they had an issue with simply accepting my tuition payments, they needed to talk to me and leave her alone.

My next conflict with school administrators was over their insistence that we pay for more expensive health insurance that provided inferior coverage vs. what we already had.  Initially, I was able to satisfy them that the insurance already in place was sufficient, but each year, they became more and more picky and insistent until they finally force-placed their more expensive crappy high deductible insurance and put it on my tuition bill.  I told my daughter that I 100% disagreed with their tactics, but wasn't going to make any more waves since it was her last year.  Their tunnel vision giving them only one satisfactory solution to various problems regardless of how students or parents were impacted was a constant source of irritation for me and if I had another child, I would absolutely not pay for an Indiana University education.

These are just a couple of examples of what I see as a much larger problem that's ruining most colleges and universities.  I only have close experience with two (Indiana University and University of Southern Indiana where I graduated), but to varying degrees, I think at least some institutional rot is present at most colleges and universities.  I've encountered a lot of college graduates who, aside from being educated on the necessary subject matter, are being taught how to think and even encouraged to have certain opinions.  I saw it with my own daughter.  I've asked her where some of these opinions came from and long story short, they are very much formed as a result of who she was exposed to in college, rather than her being free to form her own views without bias.  Now that she's away from that influence and exposed to life in the working world, I see evidence that at least some of these new views are changing.  I don't see the influence of what I see as institutional rot being healthy for young minds and I think that spills over into aspects of life outside of a student's education, including how athletes compete on the floor.  The end product is mentally soft teams who fold at the first sign of adversity.  Obviously, that's a vast generalization, but I see a lot of evidence of it at the college level.  Much more so that I see at the high school or professional level, which leads me to believe that the problem is most acute at the college and university level.  High school and professional teams seem to win much more than college teams on the road.  Why is that?  I think I have an idea.  If things don't change at the college level, I see fewer and fewer students being willing to invest in a college education, given the questionable quality of what they receive in return for their tuition dollars.

I could go on and on, talking about how I believe NIL has negatively impacted college sports, among other things that bother me, but I'll close my manifesto here by telling you that I've very much appreciated the HSN community, even those I've openly debated with.  This is a good fanbase that deserves better than the product we're getting and I'm pretty much over wasting time on or caring about Indiana University.  I probably won't go immediately in case any of you want to interact, but I'd say that by the end of the week, I'll log out  and remove the bookmarks from my browser and stay away, at least for awhile.  Winning (a lot) would likely rekindle my interest, but absent that, I have better things to do with my precious time.  Thanks to all who participate positively here...

I understand why you doing this and I respect your decision. Your presence on this board will be missed.