Culture of Mediocrity

[Purpose16]

Is it just me, or should this team be playing much better ?

On paper, I thought we would go ten deep.  Gunn and Banks are not playing anywhere near expecations.  Mbaako is far, far too inconsistent, and Wa're, like former Duke centre Lively can only score on lobs and dunks.  

Talk me off the ledge folks - but Mike and the staff are not developing the young players the way they should.

Positive responses appreciated.

 

[BADGERVOL]

I think the gaps in this roster are a real flat tire. Thats on Woodson anyone could see potentially it would be that way from a mile away. But here we are and it limits it greatly. You can’t NOT have good shooters with good post players and be a balanced team. I’m to the point I’m ready to play the walk on guards if they’ll shoot and hit them to open things up.

And I can NOT for the life of me figure out why we help so much on the perimeter when we have a shot blocker like Ware. Play up on their faces and if they beat you follow them in and trust the bigs will protect the rim. 🤷🏻‍♂️

BUT with that said I do believe this roster is better than it’s performing. I feel if we were a lot better defensively we’d be a lot better even without enough shooters. But we aren’t. And that’s on Woodson and he needs to publically own it and stop pointing fingers at the players. IMO

I’m rambling but yes I agree

Edited January 20 by BADGERVOL

[OLDIUFAN]

I for one am disappointed in this team! Thought with X coming back an Galloway we would play more up tempo with success! 
Guess I assumed CJ Gunn, Walker and Banks would be much better contributors! Don’t even want to bring up free throws! 
Woody knows the game! The question for me is are his assistants worth a damn! I assume they handle most of the development practices. Who in charge of recruiting, we need to do a much better job of that! 
Three flagrant fouls in the last three games and two ejections!! That’s not Indiana basketball! That’s coaches losing control of an under performing team! 

[NCHoosier32]

i don't really see how we can expect a whole lot more talent on a roster with three 5 star recruits, a returning starter, and a 6th year PG as our first 5.  they just fit horribly together and are playing out of position.  they don't have chemistry.  they don't play tough.  etc, etc.  

[NWOHoosier]

No doubt there is a serious culture issue.  The problem is changing the culture takes time and CMW doesn’t have that time. Not sure this fan base (or any) have the patience for a true culture change. Strong culture used to lead to winning consistently. Very few coaches have the ability to win fast enough and create strong and lasting culture at the same time. 

[BruceDouglas]

Was listening to Greg Doyle from the Indy Star and he mentioned how Woodson had hired Matta to help him out as a resource on the college game. He obviously moved on to Coach Butler, is that part of the problem? Was he ever replaced with another guy with more of a college background?

[Officer Obie]

Woodson has done some very good things. I like Woodson, he is a teacher of the game. Recruiting has been good. The IU-Kentucky game is back. I like the kids playing for IU and will root for them. I always do. But the losses have been disappointing. The problem is that the Woodson era will end in a few years. Where will IU basketball be then? Maybe Gene Keady will still be available and willing to dye whats left of his hair and coach the Hoosiers.

Edited January 21 by Officer Obie

[13th&Jackson]

19 hours ago, BruceDouglas said:

Was listening to Greg Doyle from the Indy Star and he mentioned how Woodson had hired Matta to help him out as a resource on the college game. He obviously moved on to Coach Butler, is that part of the problem? Was he ever replaced with another guy with more of a college background?

If Doyle said that Woodson hired Matta, he’s wrong. Dolson hired Matta and he worked for Dolson. This is from an Indy Star article. 
 

“The job was the creation of IU athletic director Scott Dolson, who said he came up with it after his discussion with Woodson in New York when he approached Woodson about the job. Woodson called himself a collaborator and indicated he wanted to have a relationship with Dolson similar to the one he had with Glenn Grunwald who was his teammate at IU and then the general manager when Woodson was head coach of the New York Knicks. Dolson realized he couldn't work with Woodson on that constant of a basis because of his responsibilities to the rest of the department, but decided Matta would be the perfect fit for the role.”

[NCHoosier32]

6 hours ago, Officer Obie said:

Woodson has done some very good things. I like Woodson, he is a teacher of the game. Recruiting has been good. The IU-Kentucky game is back. I like the kids playing for IU and will root for them. I always do. But the losses have been disappointing. The problem is that the Woodson era will end in a few years. Where will IU basketball be then? Maybe Gene Keady will still be available and willing to dye whats left of his hair and coach the Hoosiers.

is he a teacher of the game?

[IUCrazy2]

2 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

If Doyle said that Woodson hired Matta, he’s wrong. Dolson hired Matta and he worked for Dolson. This is from an Indy Star article. 
 

“The job was the creation of IU athletic director Scott Dolson, who said he came up with it after his discussion with Woodson in New York when he approached Woodson about the job. Woodson called himself a collaborator and indicated he wanted to have a relationship with Dolson similar to the one he had with Glenn Grunwald who was his teammate at IU and then the general manager when Woodson was head coach of the New York Knicks. Dolson realized he couldn't work with Woodson on that constant of a basis because of his responsibilities to the rest of the department, but decided Matta would be the perfect fit for the role.”

Yes, and reportedly Woodson did not like the idea that he needed help and he barely listened to Matta...if you believe the rumor mill.

[Hoosier987]

20 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Yes, and reportedly Woodson did not like the idea that he needed help and he barely listened to Matta...if you believe the rumor mill.

Woodson has incredible stubbornness and a high ego, it’s why it makes it so hard to believe he will just retire or even make a change to his coaching style. He is set in his ways despite the fact that everyone else sees differently. Some will ask, “surely his assistants see this style doesn’t work?” As for his assistants, they’re “yes sir” assistants and their primary purpose is to recruit and bring recruits on campus. Are they good at that in the NIL age? Probably differing opinions. You be the judge 

Edited January 21 by Hoosier987

[NotIThatLives]

8 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Woodson has incredible stubbornness and a high ego, it’s why it makes it so hard to believe he will just retire or even make a change to his coaching style. He is set in his ways despite the fact that everyone else sees differently. Some will ask, “surely his assistants see this style doesn’t work?” As for his assistants, they’re “yes sir” assistants and their primary purpose is to recruit and bring recruits on campus. Are they good at that in the NIL age? Probably differing opinions. You be the judge 

I've seen you repeat this twice now.  I'm just a casual observer and in 2.5 years I've sensed very little ego.  What's your connection to the program or Woodson and what are some examples of this huge/high ego?

[IUDan93]

31 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I've seen you repeat this twice now.  I'm just a casual observer and in 2.5 years I've sensed very little ego.  What's your connection to the program or Woodson and what are some examples of this huge/high ego?

I second this. If posters are sharing opinions, it is helpful to say so. 

[Hoosier987]

2 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

I've seen you repeat this twice now.  I'm just a casual observer and in 2.5 years I've sensed very little ego.  What's your connection to the program or Woodson and what are some examples of this huge/high ego?

Have you seen his press conferences? Watch his press conference after Nebraska. His answers to reporters…He also needs to show some accountability instead of placing blame on his players. His unwillingness to change schematics?

Edited January 21 by Hoosier987

[Officer Obie]

6 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

is he a teacher of the game?

Let me say that differently. Woodson has proven over his career as a coach, I think, that he is really good at player development. Players improve under his coaching. As a "teacher of the game" -- he's no Bobby Knight, but who is. Knight was the ultimate teacher and strategist. Like Lombardi was in football. IU deserves better than a mediocre basketball team that, at times, looks completely unprepared. It' unacceptable.

Edited January 21 by Officer Obie

[13th&Jackson]

14 minutes ago, Officer Obie said:

Let me say that differently. Woodson has proven, I think, that he is really good at player development. Players improve under his coaching. As a "teacher of the game" -- he's no Bobby Knight, but who is. Knight was the ultimate teacher and strategist. Like Lombardi was in football. IU deserves better than a mediocre basketball team that, at times, looks completely unprepared. It' unacceptable.

I think you nailed it. If you look at CMW in the NBA, he was good at individual player development. You could obviously see the growth in TJD. You can see the same with Ware and Malik. I think that’s his strength. 

[NCHoosier32]

22 minutes ago, Officer Obie said:

Let me say that differently. Woodson has proven over his career as a coach, I think, that he is really good at player development. Players improve under his coaching. As a "teacher of the game" -- he's no Bobby Knight, but who is. Knight was the ultimate teacher and strategist. Like Lombardi was in football. IU deserves better than a mediocre basketball team that, at times, looks completely unprepared. It' unacceptable.

sorry, not trying to be combative, but has he proven he is really good at player development?  i mean this is his 3rd year of college basketball.  i refuse to agree with people who say he "developed" JHS in one year.  he had to play him at PG with X out, so JHS did his thing.  some say he developed TJD?  i mean he was about the same player, but older and more experienced right?  Galloway is pretty much the same.  a little better every year i'd say.  Reneau is getting a bigger role and more freedom with another year.  i'm just not sure he has proven he is really good at player development.  are we pointing to the NBA?  i can't speak to that.  haven't watched it in many many years.  don't know what his role was as an NBA assistant and how developed those guys already were.  

[NotIThatLives]

1 hour ago, Hoosier987 said:

Have you seen his press conferences? Watch his press conference after Nebraska. His answers to reporters…He also needs to show some accountability instead of placing blame on his players. His unwillingness to change schematics?

I didn't refute stubborn as a mule.  

[Officer Obie]

35 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

sorry, not trying to be combative, but has he proven he is really good at player development?  i mean this is his 3rd year of college basketball.  i refuse to agree with people who say he "developed" JHS in one year.  he had to play him at PG with X out, so JHS did his thing.  some say he developed TJD?  i mean he was about the same player, but older and more experienced right?  Galloway is pretty much the same.  a little better every year i'd say.  Reneau is getting a bigger role and more freedom with another year.  i'm just not sure he has proven he is really good at player development.  are we pointing to the NBA?  i can't speak to that.  haven't watched it in many many years.  don't know what his role was as an NBA assistant and how developed those guys already were.  

I understand what you're saying. I think Woodson is good at developing and teaching players or else he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did as a coach in the NBA and ultimately hired at IU. But I get your point. Did Tom Crean develop Victor Oladipo from an overlooked 3-star player to the number two pick in the NBA in just two years? Of course not. I just think that kids like playing for Woodson and trust him. They listen to him, knowing that he's done a few laps around the block. But I'm no sunshine pumper. I fully expect IU to lose the next 2 games. Ware will probably be out for a while. Johnson will probably go down again with an injury before the season is finished. It won't be pretty.

[NCHoosier32]

2 minutes ago, Officer Obie said:

I understand what you're saying. I think Woodson is good at developing and teaching players or else he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did as a coach in the NBA and ultimately hired at IU. But I get your point. Did Tom Crean develop Victor Oladipo from an overlooked 3-star player to the number two pick in the NBA in just two years? Of course not. I just think that kids like playing for Woodson and trust him. They listen to him, knowing that he's done a few laps around the block. But I'm no sunshine pumper. I fully expect IU to lose the next 2 games. Ware will probably be out for a while. Johnson will probably go down again with an injury before the season is finished. It won't be pretty.

agreed and i definitely think the key is that kids like him, trust him, think he is cool and has connections.  that along with being a respected alum gives him some time.  if we lose by 12 + at Illinois like i expect then turn around and lose a 4th straight at home vs Iowa, things may really start going sideways.  if Ware is out a while it's hard to imagine why we wouldn't get creative with lineups and style of play.    

[Officer Obie]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

...kids like him, trust him, think he is cool..

I honestly don't think any 18-22 year old kid is going to look at a 65 year old geezer and think to themselves "He's cool" Lol.

[NCHoosier32]

3 minutes ago, Officer Obie said:

I honestly don't think any 18-22 year old kid is going to look at a 65 year old geezer and think to themselves "He's cool" Lol.

good point

[BruceDouglas]

9 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

If Doyle said that Woodson hired Matta, he’s wrong. Dolson hired Matta and he worked for Dolson. This is from an Indy Star article. 
 

“The job was the creation of IU athletic director Scott Dolson, who said he came up with it after his discussion with Woodson in New York when he approached Woodson about the job. Woodson called himself a collaborator and indicated he wanted to have a relationship with Dolson similar to the one he had with Glenn Grunwald who was his teammate at IU and then the general manager when Woodson was head coach of the New York Knicks. Dolson realized he couldn't work with Woodson on that constant of a basis because of his responsibilities to the rest of the department, but decided Matta would be the perfect fit for the role.”

OK, that was probably my error is remembering exactly what Doyel said. Thanks for the background, explains quite a bit IMO.