Northwestern Post Game Thread

[OGIUAndy]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Ok, let rephrase it as of right now . next season doesn't look good. I have no faith in Woodson to get enough in the portal to make us a lot better 

I actually do because I think he knows he screwed up this season trusting what was already on the roster. 

[HoosierDom]

24 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

I actually do because I think he knows he screwed up this season trusting what was already on the roster. 

He did a pretty good job getting talent in the portal - it just didn't gel. If he gets Ware but in a point guard, Walker but in a SG and maybe another Walker in the exact same position, we will have a good team. I don't have much faith Woody will coach them up, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, OGIUAndy said:

I actually do because I think he knows he screwed up this season trusting what was already on the roster. 

My feeling is that the shooters we try to get will look at our offense and go elsewhere. Until he realizes you can't just go through the post on most of your possessions you won't get good wings 

[dgambill]

4 hours ago, IUFLA said:

And I'll say this...

The mods here all the time stress to debate respectfully... 

@dgambill if you think phrases like "no IQ"or any statement that mentions "stupidity" is respectful in any context then you and I have different opinions on what respect actually means... 

He was talking about basketball IQ because we are on a basketball board. I’ll let it go because I have nothing against you. I like your opinions and posts. I think all our engines are running a little hot. I don’t think any of us want this to fail…and most have looked up to Woody but man what he is putting on the court and what he is saying in the media it’s hard to defend him…it honestly sounds like he doesn’t have a clue how to fix this…and maybe no one could…but it really worries me for next year when we only have one recruit coming in and it’s not clear where the answers will come from. Its easy to say Portal but that’s putting a lot of faith in this staff to not only identify the guys but land them and then put them in position to be successful.

[OGIUAndy]

46 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My feeling is that the shooters we try to get will look at our offense and go elsewhere. Until he realizes you can't just go through the post on most of your possessions you won't get good wings 

Our offense would be decent if people could make some open threes and there are a lot of them to be had. You think other BIG programs are running sophisticated offenses? PU's? They throw it to Edey, he makes his stuff or gets a foul called or he throws it out to open guys. Not rocket science. Last year they couldn't make the open three, this year they can. Our offense is not very good because we don't have guards (the healthy ones that is) that can 1. Create their own shot. 2. Shoot.  And because both X and Newton are hurt we're playing a FR PG that wasn't projected to be starting or playing big minutes and a two guard who is a three. Not saying Woody doesn't take blame (leaving an open scholarship, overloading at four) but this roster was thin at guard and got thinner when both X and Newton went down basically for the year. Now I am of the opinion that Cupps shouldn't be playing as much as he is regardless of the situation. He'll be a good four year guy but his in over his head both offensively and defensively, but he's fighting and will get better as a result of this.

Edited February 19 by OGIUAndy

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

He was talking about basketball IQ because we are on a basketball board. I’ll let it go because I have nothing against you. I like your opinions and posts. I think all our engines are running a little hot. I don’t think any of us want this to fail…and most have looked up to Woody but man what he is putting on the court and what he is saying in the media it’s hard to defend him…it honestly sounds like he doesn’t have a clue how to fix this…and maybe no one could…but it really worries me for next year when we only have one recruit coming in and it’s not clear where the answers will come from. Its easy to say Portal but that’s putting a lot of faith in this staff to not only identify the guys but land them and then put them in position to be successful.

Even so, as I said, if Mike Woodson has no basketball IQ, he's fooled a lot of people for a lot of years. 

I'll drop it as well... I appreciate you and what you bring... I just think that kind of disrespect toward our players and coaches push us more toward Rupp Rafters than what the people who built this forum envisioned... 

 

[Kdug]

10 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

Our offense would be decent if people could make some open threes and there are a lot of them to be had. You think other BIG programs are running sophisticated offenses? PU's? They throw it to Edey, he makes his stuff or gets a foul called or he throws it out to open guys. Not rocket science. Last year they couldn't make the open three, this year they can. Our offense is not very good because we have guards (the healthy ones that is) that can't 1. Create their own shot. 2. Shoot.  And because both X and Newton are hurt we're playing a FR PG that wasn't projected to be starting or playing big minutes. And our two guard is a 3. Not saying Woody doesn't take blame but this roster was thin at guards and got thinner when both X and Newton went down basically for the year. Now I am of the opinion that Cupps shouldn't be playing as much as he is regardless of the situation. He'll be a good four year guy but his in over his head both offensively and defensively, but he's fighting and will get better as a result of this.

On your PU comment, they run way better offense than we do from what I’ve seen. They’re post up heavy like us since they have Edey, but their guards are constantly moving which is why they get so many open 3s. We tend to get it into the post and just stand around, which is incredibly easy to defend. It also doesn’t help that when Malik gets the ball he is only looking to score and constantly misses wide open teammates.

And agreed the injury to X doesn’t help with the guards, but we were pretty bad at the beginning of the year when X was still playing. And if we were relying on Newton to play meaningful minutes after he missed basically a full year due to a serious injury in HS, that’s just wishful thinking.

 

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, HoosierDom said:

He did a pretty good job getting talent in the portal - it just didn't gel. If he gets Ware but in a point guard, Walker but in a SG and maybe another Walker in the exact same position, we will have a good team. I don't have much faith Woody will coach them up, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

What the portal is good for is supplementing a roster. Finding that one guy that can contribute and maybe supplement and deepen the bench. Personally I wouldn’t want more than 2 portal guys ever. Trying to bring in more and then add in freshmen and then factor losing guys who are upper classmen and likely captains and leaders means you have to be a great leader of young men and really be great at pulling guys together and can adjust your style to your roster year in and out. Honestly you need a really strong strong coach. 
 

When you bring in freshmen and build a roster that way and get years of kids in your program they learn it, the love it, and grow in it. Sure most won’t contribute right away but over time that is how you build a program and a culture. I don’t think you can build a culture in the portal.

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, Kdug said:

On your PU comment, they run way better offense than we do from what I’ve seen. They’re post up heavy like us since they have Edey, but their guards are constantly moving which is why they get so many open 3s. We tend to get it into the post and just stand around, which is incredibly easy to defend. It also doesn’t help that when Malik gets the ball he is only looking to score and constantly misses wide open teammates.

And agreed the injury to X doesn’t help with the guards, but we were pretty bad at the beginning of the year when X was still playing. And if we were relying on Newton to play meaningful minutes after he missed basically a full year due to a serious injury in HS, that’s just wishful thinking.

 

It doesn’t hurt that Edey is the size of a Sycamore tree and can pass out of any trap/double team. The other thing is Edey does most of his work before he catches the ball. He has rooted out his defender and is usually 5-7 feet from the basket and doesn’t need to put the ball on the floor at all if more than once. Reneau often is catching the ball outside 10 feet from the basket and thus having to take 4-5 dribbles to get around his man…fight through reaching hands and if someone is open his head is down and not looking. What made Trayce good his last year passing…he faced up..and could see the floor as well as we did a good job setting screens and he getting down deep by the basket.

[IUFLA]

15 minutes ago, dgambill said:

It doesn’t hurt that Edey is the size of a Sycamore tree

Maple! The Big Maple! 🍁

😉

[jojo123]

6 hours ago, IUFLA said:

And I'll say this...

The mods here all the time stress to debate respectfully... 

@dgambill if you think phrases like "no IQ"or any statement that mentions "stupidity" is respectful in any context then you and I have different opinions on what respect actually means... 

respect is earned. And right now there are no coaches and players earning it. 

[IUFLA]

12 minutes ago, jojo123 said:

respect is earned. And right now there are no coaches and players earning it. 

Mike Woodson has earned respect from people a little bit more "in the know" as not only a basketball coach, but as a man as well...

If you don't respect him, that's pretty much on you... 

[rico]

[Dawg Bawls]

Is it bad that when I came to the site today and seen this thread... I totally forgot I actually watched the game on Sunday... its so bad now, its like when you drive home from work and dont remember because its so familiar... losing has become that way... 🥲

Edited February 21 by Dawg Bawls

[KoB2011]

Not going to add much, but will add that I agree that Malik was awful. I'm flabbergasted it took so long for Woodson to notice, because this game was far from an outlier for him, but he was awful.

• Malik has had an ORtg below 100 in 6 of 13 conference games, I cannot fathom why anyone would think him as our primary option is a good idea, and when you consider how poor Malik is in other areas it is even more troublesome. 
• We scored 25 of our points in the 6 minutes after Malik fouled out, we've seen other stretches having two bigs is a bad idea this year
• The play when it was 40-38 was one of the worst plays I've ever seen, and I'm not sure I wouldn't have sat Malik for the rest of the game after that because it was just the worst example of the selfish crap he has done all year. 
  • For those that need a reminder, Mgbako had just hit a three, then we got a transition look where Trey quickly entered to Malik. Mgbako was WIDE OPEN 7' from Malik on the wing, directly in front of his face. Malik instead dribbled into the middle then forced an absolutely awful pass inside for a turnover. He has done similar things repeatedly all year. He is a selfish basketball player. 
• Among Big Ten players with a usage over 24%, Malik ranks 13th out of 15 in ORtg.
• Among Big Ten players with a usage over 20% he ranks 34th out of 43.

The fact that we've forced things through him all year and he's had no repercussions for his selfish play is just another big problem. We post up anywhere from the 96th to the 98th percentile every year under Woodson, so I guess it isn't shocking. 

[kyhoosier29]

7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Not going to add much, but will add that I agree that Malik was awful. I'm flabbergasted it took so long for Woodson to notice, because this game was far from an outlier for him, but he was awful.

• Malik has had an ORtg below 100 in 6 of 13 conference games, I cannot fathom why anyone would think him as our primary option is a good idea, and when you consider how poor Malik is in other areas it is even more troublesome. 
• We scored 25 of our points in the 6 minutes after Malik fouled out, we've seen other stretches having two bigs is a bad idea this year
• The play when it was 40-38 was one of the worst plays I've ever seen, and I'm not sure I wouldn't have sat Malik for the rest of the game after that because it was just the worst example of the selfish crap he has done all year. 
  • For those that need a reminder, Mgbako had just hit a three, then we got a transition look where Trey quickly entered to Malik. Mgbako was WIDE OPEN 7' from Malik on the wing, directly in front of his face. Malik instead dribbled into the middle then forced an absolutely awful pass inside for a turnover. He has done similar things repeatedly all year. He is a selfish basketball player. 
• Among Big Ten players with a usage over 24%, Malik ranks 13th out of 15 in ORtg.
• Among Big Ten players with a usage over 20% he ranks 34th out of 43.

The fact that we've forced things through him all year and he's had no repercussions for his selfish play is just another big problem. We post up anywhere from the 96th to the 98th percentile every year under Woodson, so I guess it isn't shocking. 

I’ve been saying he was selfish all year. I could prob live with some of that on offense if I knew he busted his rear end on the defensive end and on the boards. But since he doesn’t, just looks like to me that he’s just worried about getting his. 🤷🏻‍♂️ We can blame it on the lack of shooters all we want, but that’s just an excuse. 

[KoB2011]

11 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I’ve been saying he was selfish all year. I could prob live with some of that on offense if I knew he busted his rear end on the defensive end and on the boards. But since he doesn’t, just looks like to me that he’s just worried about getting his. 🤷🏻‍♂️ We can blame it on the lack of shooters all we want, but that’s just an excuse. 

Yeah, I think he's talented and a good kid, but he needs a reality check on his basketball mindset IMO.

It's interesting when we look back at some of the NBA players that have sung the praises of Woodson, it's a lot of guys that I don't know that I'd want on my team such as Carmelo, Jamal Crawford, etc. They all kind of have the same mindset as Reneau.

I do think guys like that can develop and I have hope for Reneau if he is on the team next year that he'll do that. Watford as an underclassmen was probably pretty similar, but by the time he left he was like our 3rd or 4th option and impacted winning in a lot of ways beyond being able to score the basketball.