kaustical Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 Seems to me we have the potential to be the kind of team that plays smart, values the ball and plays good team defense. Guess my expectation are based on what I think Coach Miller brings to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted August 28, 2017 Report Share Posted August 28, 2017 On 8/27/2017 at 11:39 AM, 5fouls said: I think everyone (media, IU Fans, Fans from other teams) would be holding IU in a lot higher regard if Billy Donovan would have been hired as coach. And, that is simply wrong. If Archie is the coach we think he is, then he should be able to get this team in the Top 5 of the B1G. Picking IU 7, 8, 9, or 10 in the conference based on our roster compared to the other teams in the conference is short-sighted. If the coaching search had played out differently, the focus would not be on the time it takes to learn a new system if Donovan was the coach, rather it would be about the heights he could take the program. And, that's not fair to Archie. I said it before, but it's worth repeating. If IU finishes 8th in conference this season, it's not what should be 'expected'. It's a HUGE disappointment, and the coaches, players, or some combination of both, have underperformed. We, as fans, seem to be buying into the argument put forth by an uneducated media. My assessment of the media's projections for IU has very little to do with Archie. I think Archie is fantastic and I'm really optimistic that IU "got their guy" for the future. I also don't think my assessment would be much different for this season if Billy had taken the job. My assessment is more based off our roster. I disagree with you on how our roster stacks up against the other teams. After MSU, pretty much everyone has question marks. But, IMO the other teams have guys that have proven more at this level than our guys have. Where I agree with you is that IU has more potential to be better than the projections. Our questions marks have higher ceilings than some of the other teams, where the other teams have more proven guys. But, if our guys don't reach their potential this season, I don't view that as some sort of failure by Archie. He's implementing a new program, those things can sometimes take time, while other times they don't take as much. We're just counting a lot on guys like Morgan, Davis, CuJo, Green, Hartman, and even RoJo, who all have big question marks coming into the season, and will be key contributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 On 8/25/2017 at 2:13 PM, Stlboiler23 said: What is wrong with me picking them 8th? You guys lost 3 extremely talented players and that will sting. That plus the uncertainty with a new coach is why I'm picking them 8th. You will have to be a completely different team. I am fine with Cline being a role player, not a go to player. If that was the case, it would remind me of DJ Byrd trying to be a go to player....... Haas will probably average around 20 mpg and be stuck guarding the 5. It will be interesting to see him go against quicker players like Happ, Davis, MSU's 15 bigs (over doing this on purpose), etc. Can the Edwards be efficient and score is the main question? Not have a lot of turnovers...Biggie made the game a lot easier for those two. He passed out of the post better than Haas ever dreamed of. It will be interesting to see going from option 2 and 3 with the game plan being how to shut down Biggie to being the main guys. I think IU drastically improves. I say it because of Archie and a difference in defensive game planning. He plays the pack line defense which will keep our kids in position. Offensively, I still think we have a ton of talent. Rob Johnson will be better without James Blackmon...I guarantee it....He did it the prior year when he got hurt..I don't think losing OG, Bryant or Blackmon hurts us. I think it improves us. For instance, we have sucked every year that Blackmon has played a full season. The one year we won the B10, he got hurt and we miraculously improved and the two seasons he played....we sucked. Blackmon was a horrible teammate and it showed in the Wins and Losses. I think Davis will thrive in a pack line defense and losing the 25 lbs. He will be a post player and embraces it which makes us a better team than having Bryant. I think Morgan and Hartman are better than OG. OG as athletic as he was...he wasn't skilled enough and just wasn't good enough. All potential on defensive athleticism....pack line defense helps less athletic players. I think Morgan and Hartman are more skilled offensively than OG was. I think IU can finish top 5 in the Big Ten. I think they will actually. IU was 44th in kenpom and lost 7 games by 5 pts or less. OG was gone for a good chunk of the season and we were losing before he got injured. Reasoning with losing those three and winning more above. Also, I think IU has better depth..... Guards - Newkirk, Johnson, Jones, and Green....don't see Durham playing Forwards (3 and 4) - Morgan and Hartman, followed by......Smith and Moore. Center - Davis and McSwain....this is where IU's depth is dicey. McSwain as a 6'6" Center. Miller has done it before. McSwain is strong and athletic. Stronger than a lot of 5s and his 42" vertical helps with that. I think Purdue finishes around 4-7.... MSU - should go undefeated in the Big Ten Maryland - Next best team. Indiana - under performing talent, getting three of kids that and will improve because Crean is gone. Northwestern - lot of returning talent Wisconsin - Happ is the best big in the Big Ten.... Purdue - think losing Biggie will hurt Michigan - DJ Wilson and Walton were some bad mofos last year and they lost them both. Minnesota - Not a big fan of Little Ricky Iowa - Not a big fan of Frannie Illinois - they will suck Penn State - they will suck Ohio State - they will suck Nebraska - they will suck Rutgers - they will suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 1 hour ago, IU_Realist said: You will have to be a completely different team. I am fine with Cline being a role player, not a go to player. If that was the case, it would remind me of DJ Byrd trying to be a go to player....... Haas will probably average around 20 mpg and be stuck guarding the 5. It will be interesting to see him go against quicker players like Happ, Davis, MSU's 15 bigs (over doing this on purpose), etc. Can the Edwards be efficient and score is the main question? Not have a lot of turnovers...Biggie made the game a lot easier for those two. He passed out of the post better than Haas ever dreamed of. It will be interesting to see going from option 2 and 3 with the game plan being how to shut down Biggie to being the main guys. I think IU drastically improves. I say it because of Archie and a difference in defensive game planning. He plays the pack line defense which will keep our kids in position. Offensively, I still think we have a ton of talent. Rob Johnson will be better without James Blackmon...I guarantee it....He did it the prior year when he got hurt..I don't think losing OG, Bryant or Blackmon hurts us. I think it improves us. For instance, we have sucked every year that Blackmon has played a full season. The one year we won the B10, he got hurt and we miraculously improved and the two seasons he played....we sucked. Blackmon was a horrible teammate and it showed in the Wins and Losses. I think Davis will thrive in a pack line defense and losing the 25 lbs. He will be a post player and embraces it which makes us a better team than having Bryant. I think Morgan and Hartman are better than OG. OG as athletic as he was...he wasn't skilled enough and just wasn't good enough. All potential on defensive athleticism....pack line defense helps less athletic players. I think Morgan and Hartman are more skilled offensively than OG was. I think IU can finish top 5 in the Big Ten. I think they will actually. IU was 44th in kenpom and lost 7 games by 5 pts or less. OG was gone for a good chunk of the season and we were losing before he got injured. Reasoning with losing those three and winning more above. Also, I think IU has better depth..... Guards - Newkirk, Johnson, Jones, and Green....don't see Durham playing Forwards (3 and 4) - Morgan and Hartman, followed by......Smith and Moore. Center - Davis and McSwain....this is where IU's depth is dicey. McSwain as a 6'6" Center. Miller has done it before. McSwain is strong and athletic. Stronger than a lot of 5s and his 42" vertical helps with that. I think Purdue finishes around 4-7.... MSU - should go undefeated in the Big Ten Maryland - Next best team. Indiana - under performing talent, getting three of kids that and will improve because Crean is gone. Northwestern - lot of returning talent Wisconsin - Happ is the best big in the Big Ten.... Purdue - think losing Biggie will hurt Michigan - DJ Wilson and Walton were some bad mofos last year and they lost them both. Minnesota - Not a big fan of Little Ricky Iowa - Not a big fan of Frannie Illinois - they will suck Penn State - they will suck Ohio State - they will suck Nebraska - they will suck Rutgers - they will suck Don't think losing OG, Bryant, or Blackmon hurts you? Wow. That's not even remotely close to being true. So losing 2 NBA picks and a guy who averaged more than 15 PPG wont hurt? You don't actually believe that I hope. Morgan and Hartman over OG? I'd take OG every single time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 6 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said: Don't think losing OG, Bryant, or Blackmon hurts you? Wow. That's not even remotely close to being true. So losing 2 NBA picks and a guy who averaged more than 15 PPG wont hurt? You don't actually believe that I hope. Morgan and Hartman over OG? I'd take OG every single time. man, it's rare that i agree with Boiler, but i kind of do this time. i think we're a whole lot more of a question mark than most on here seem to believe. we did play most of the year without OG and JB2 hurt about as much as he helped at times, but we still lose a lot of scoring punch with those 3. we don't return much proven scoring or experience at all. everyone is convinced we'll just immediately be good because we got a new coach. sure, i think we're better without Crean, but talent still matters. this is a team with a ton of question marks. i think it's fair to pick us anywhere from 8th to 3rd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 7 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said: Don't think losing OG, Bryant, or Blackmon hurts you? Wow. That's not even remotely close to being true. So losing 2 NBA picks and a guy who averaged more than 15 PPG wont hurt? You don't actually believe that I hope. Morgan and Hartman over OG? I'd take OG every single time. I agree with you on OG, I don't think losing the other two hurts us either. You've still not adequately answered how guys adjust to Biggie not being there. A guy like Vince Edwards, as good as he was, wasnt terribly efficient with Biggie. What happens now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 50 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: man, it's rare that i agree with Boiler, but i kind of do this time. i think we're a whole lot more of a question mark than most on here seem to believe. we did play most of the year without OG and JB2 hurt about as much as he helped at times, but we still lose a lot of scoring punch with those 3. we don't return much proven scoring or experience at all. everyone is convinced we'll just immediately be good because we got a new coach. sure, i think we're better without Crean, but talent still matters. this is a team with a ton of question marks. i think it's fair to pick us anywhere from 8th to 3rd! We have a more proven returning scorer than Purdue, despite a terrible slump last season from Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 The focus should be on losing Crean and getting Miller, not what players we lost. That's the difference maker. Everyone wants to put Northwestern ahead of IU because they are a 'team'. I think Archie will build a 'team' with more talent than the Wildcats have. Regardless of whether you believe that losing OG, Braynt, and Blackmon hurts or not, can't we all agree that Swanigan is a bigger loss for Purdue than any of those guys are for IU (individually, not necessarily collectively)? Outside of MSU, IU could possibly finish ahead of anybody. IU's mental state will be much, much better this season. Don't underestimate how important that is to success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 7 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said: Don't think losing OG, Bryant, or Blackmon hurts you? Wow. That's not even remotely close to being true. So losing 2 NBA picks and a guy who averaged more than 15 PPG wont hurt? You don't actually believe that I hope. Morgan and Hartman over OG? I'd take OG every single time. What did OG do that made him so valuable? He was drafted purely on potential. Was it turning it over on drives when he tried to actually dribble? He was a dunker off of breaks, rebounds and passes and a set up three point shooter that shot 36% for the season. Like I said, pack-line D should protect Hartman and Morgan because you are right...they aren't the individual defender that OG...but guess what...the pack-line D protects those type of players....Wisconsin D is a pack-line D. Blackmon and Bryant sucked when they were the main options. Like 5fouls said, it is more about a team than individuals....because that was what Blackmon and Bryant were...individuals that weren't good enough to lift up the team. IU has enough talent to be a top 5 team in the B10. There is a difference in Purdue losing Swanigan and losing IU's three players......Purdue actually won and Swanigan made everyone better........Blackmon and Bryant didn't and OG is all potential...... 49 minutes ago, 5fouls said: The focus should be on losing Crean and getting Miller, not what players we lost. That's the difference maker. Everyone wants to put Northwestern ahead of IU because they are a 'team'. I think Archie will build a 'team' with more talent than the Wildcats have. Regardless of whether you believe that losing OG, Braynt, and Blackmon hurts or not, can't we all agree that Swanigan is a bigger loss for Purdue than any of those guys are for IU (individually, not necessarily collectively)? Outside of MSU, IU could possibly finish ahead of anybody. IU's mental state will be much, much better this season. Don't underestimate how important that is to success. Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 3, 2017 Report Share Posted September 3, 2017 On 9/2/2017 at 9:44 AM, KoB2011 said: I agree with you on OG, I don't think losing the other two hurts us either. You've still not adequately answered how guys adjust to Biggie not being there. A guy like Vince Edwards, as good as he was, wasnt terribly efficient with Biggie. What happens now? Vince was pretty efficient in the World University Games. I think that's a good start. It'll be an adjustment without Biggie but I think Vince had a heck of a tournament in Taipei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.