NBA Thread

[Seeking6]

4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Can little guys stay healthy long term?

Definitely a fair question. Zeke played 13 years. Stockton I think 18 or 19. Iverson 15 or so. Of course Curry makes in 1 year with on/off court earnings than Stockton made in his entire career.  If the body is breaking down...along with the money these guys earn I could see Curry playing out his current contract to 2022 and calling it a day.

[NotIThatLives]

5 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Definitely a fair question. Zeke played 13 years. Stockton I think 18 or 19. Iverson 15 or so. Of course Curry makes in 1 year with on/off court earnings than Stockton made in his entire career.  If the body is breaking down...along with the money these guys earn I could see Curry playing out his current contract to 2022 and calling it a day.

I'd trade him.  Of course I don't like his stupid shimmy crap so I'm biased.  

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I'd trade him.  Of course I don't like his stupid shimmy crap so I'm biased.  

I've never minded that...of course I don't mind a little talk or showmanship. I mean Bird and Jordan are probably the two greatest trash talkers ever to take the court. 

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

I've never minded that...of course I don't mind a little talk or showmanship. I mean Bird and Jordan are probably the two greatest trash talkers ever to take the court. 

Love trash talk and stare downs.  Curry just gets on my nerves. Some guys wear confidence with strength, he wears it like a brat I want to punch.  That's the difference to me.  Kawhi's way over Curry all day long for me.  

[Zlinedavid]

27 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Can little guys stay healthy long term?

Double edged sword.  Less body mass means less strain on the lower body joints.  If they're able to avoid catastrophic injuries, little guys don't wear down as fast as big men. 

Edit: And worst case, he becomes more of a spot up shooter.  Nowhere near as dominant, but like him or not (and I fall more towards the latter), you have to admit, dude is a damn sniper from deep. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

I'm no fan of them either, but you have to admit, put the right lottery level forward with Curry/Klay, flip Green for 1-2 other assets/cap space....could be worse.

It’s not just Durant that they lost, they lost basically their supporting crew, Livingston et al. 

Curry, as great as he is, needs space, he’s had trouble scoring this year without it. Klay is coming back after likely a missed year, after a major injury. Getting a lottery level forward is just more youth.

I think the warriors are done, as a contender. Look around them. Clippers are seriously deep and not going away. Denver is now a clear contender with a legit star and still young. Lakers for a few years. Rockets aren’t going away. Portland will crush them every chance they get. Jazz. 

Warriors are done 

[NotIThatLives]

51 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It’s not just Durant that they lost, they lost basically their supporting crew, Livingston et al. 

Curry, as great as he is, needs space, he’s had trouble scoring this year without it. Klay is coming back after likely a missed year, after a major injury. Getting a lottery level forward is just more youth.

I think the warriors are done, as a contender. Look around them. Clippers are seriously deep and not going away. Denver is now a clear contender with a legit star and still young. Lakers for a few years. Rockets aren’t going away. Portland will crush them every chance they get. Jazz. 

Warriors are done 

I still stand by my statement that next year, all healthy, they still will have a top 3 starting 5.  4 all stars and maybe they flip their pick that will be top 5 for a solid big or at least add some depth.  

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It’s not just Durant that they lost, they lost basically their supporting crew, Livingston et al. 

Curry, as great as he is, needs space, he’s had trouble scoring this year without it. Klay is coming back after likely a missed year, after a major injury. Getting a lottery level forward is just more youth.

I think the warriors are done, as a contender. Look around them. Clippers are seriously deep and not going away. Denver is now a clear contender with a legit star and still young. Lakers for a few years. Rockets aren’t going away. Portland will crush them every chance they get. Jazz. 

Warriors are done 

I sort of agree with you. I think most likely they're done, but not completely. As currently constituted, it will be very hard for them to get back to actual championship contender status. But, the do have some things that if they fall right, they could return quickly, but they're going to need some luck. 

Teams like Milwaukee and Minnesota are going to have to make decision in the next year or two on Giannis and KAT. Of course both franchises want to keep those guys, but they might not have a choice. If either guy forces a trade and GS lucks out in the lottery, then GS could be right back in the thick of it with one of those guys along with Curry and Thompson. GS could flip a top 5 pick, Draymond and/or Russell to one of those teams for that missing superstar. 

Imagine Giannis in the middle of the lane with the ball and Curry/Thompson on the perimeter? Again, it will take some luck but it's not entirely impossible either. 

 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I sort of agree with you. I think most likely they're done, but not completely. As currently constituted, it will be very hard for them to get back to actual championship contender status. But, the do have some things that if they fall right, they could return quickly, but they're going to need some luck. 

Teams like Milwaukee and Minnesota are going to have to make decision in the next year or two on Giannis and KAT. Of course both franchises want to keep those guys, but they might not have a choice. If either guy forces a trade and GS lucks out in the lottery, then GS could be right back in the thick of it with one of those guys along with Curry and Thompson. GS could flip a top 5 pick, Draymond and/or Russell to one of those teams for that missing superstar. 

Imagine Giannis in the middle of the lane with the ball and Curry/Thompson on the perimeter? Again, it will take some luck but it's not entirely impossible either. 

 

Oh for sure -- you never know with trades. But, as currently constituted, and without landing a legit superstar-level player, they're done.

Just my opinion -- no way will Milwaukee let Giannis go. They are only relevant because of him, and they absolutely know that. And for him, would he leave the team that grew him, into the MVP,  best player in the East, and leave his team, to join up in GS? I don't see it. Durant, sure, Giannis, highly doubt it. Now KAT, maybe, but then it's not like GS would be the only team vying for him and again Durant's desire to join GS (which I still find pathetic) is not representative of other superstar-level players. And then there's how it ended, with Durant publicly admitting his rift with Draymond had something to do with it. Naah, GS's luck has run out!

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

I still stand by my statement that next year, all healthy, they still will have a top 3 starting 5.  4 all stars and maybe they flip their pick that will be top 5 for a solid big or at least add some depth.  

It's a lot of maybes, and as he's showing right now, Draymond is not a top 3. He's a complimentary guy. Then there's their incredibly thin, young bench. They can't win big as constituted, they really just can't.

[NotIThatLives]

33 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It's a lot of maybes, and as he's showing right now, Draymond is not a top 3. He's a complimentary guy. Then there's their incredibly thin, young bench. They can't win big as constituted, they really just can't.

Draymond just showed like 6 months ago he's still capable.  His playoff run showed that.  He is like a 2nd robin.  He needs clay and Steph in order for him to play his role.  He's about to get super exposed by himself.  That's not his game.  

4 all stars.  Who else has 4?  Philly potentially.  Lakers 3 if Kuzma jumps or if you count old men who used to have it. Clips are just deep and well organized, high end talent top 2 and the back court d to mitigate Steph and klay, no doubt.  Bucks Giannis and a fringe 3 and d all star.  Houston, they try but they dont play winning ball.   Denver and Utah are nice teams but they have to prove it.  Portland?  What am i missing?   Klay, Steph, and dray swept them 6 months ago. Klay was spoke of as possibly the best 2 guard in the league. Today, they have no depth.    By next year there will be improvements.  I'm not saying they will win it all again but they aren't out of it when healthy.  So yeah, top 3 starting 5 next year all day long.  They are trash now and will likely have a 14% chance at number one pick.

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh for sure -- you never know with trades. But, as currently constituted, and without landing a legit superstar-level player, they're done.

Just my opinion -- no way will Milwaukee let Giannis go. They are only relevant because of him, and they absolutely know that. And for him, would he leave the team that grew him, into the MVP,  best player in the East, and leave his team, to join up in GS? I don't see it. Durant, sure, Giannis, highly doubt it. Now KAT, maybe, but then it's not like GS would be the only team vying for him and again Durant's desire to join GS (which I still find pathetic) is not representative of other superstar-level players. And then there's how it ended, with Durant publicly admitting his rift with Draymond had something to do with it. Naah, GS's luck has run out!

Agree that without making some moves, the Warriors run is over. 

As far as Giannis, KAT or another small market superstar, at this point I'd just assume that they're going to force a trade at some point or leave their team via free agency. It's just the way the league works at this point. LeBron, Kyrie, Durant, PG (twice), Leonard (twice), Anthony Davis, etc. If the Bucks don't make the Finals this season, and especially if they don't make the ECF for some reason, the chatter will intensify on Giannis potentially leaving Milwaukee. That doesn't mean he will leave, but the chatter will be there for a full season. 

I don't see KAT staying in Minny either. 

Of course, like you said, GS wouldn't be the only suitor. But, if they get lucky in the lottery and have a top 3 or so pick to package with some other young guys and maybe a quasi star in Green or Russell, then they'd have a pretty attractive offering. 

A lot would have to happen and they of course need to get lucky, but the Curry injury I think actually helps them long term. This is a good year for them to just bottom out, but what seperates them is that not many teams that bottom out have Steph Curry and Klay Thompson coming back. But yes, as presently constituted, their run is over.   

Edited November 1, 2019 by BGleas

[Hoosierhoopster]

47 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Draymond just showed like 6 months ago he's still capable.  His playoff run showed that.  He is like a 2nd robin.  He needs clay and Steph in order for him to play his role.  He's about to get super exposed by himself.  That's not his game.  

4 all stars.  Who else has 4?  Philly potentially.  Lakers 3 if Kuzma jumps or if you count old men who used to have it. Clips are just deep and well organized, high end talent top 2 and the back court d to mitigate Steph and klay, no doubt.  Bucks Giannis and a fringe 3 and d all star.  Houston, they try but they dont play winning ball.   Denver and Utah are nice teams but they have to prove it.  Portland?  What am i missing?   Klay, Steph, and dray swept them 6 months ago. Klay was spoke of as possibly the best 2 guard in the league. Today, they have no depth.    By next year there will be improvements.  I'm not saying they will win it all again but they aren't out of it when healthy.  So yeah, top 3 starting 5 next year all day long.  They are trash now and will likely have a 14% chance at number one pick.

What Draymond showed he showed with a different team. It’s a different team, now. What he’s showing now is weak. Agree with you he needs (at least) a — healthy — Klay and Steph. 

It’s not just Klay, Steph and Draymond. Look at who else you is left on GS. Look at their youth - they are, clearly, rebuilding now, it’s not the same team, even if they get Klay back healthy, they’re defensively horrible. You do not win with 4 guys, assuming 4.

Are you critiquing the Clips based on their not having more than 2 clear all stars? They are the deepest team in the League. Without even considering PG and Kawhi — 2 of the best defensive wings in the League - they have 2 additional defensive POY types. GS? They have no one. Their D is completely non-existent. How does that change? 

We see things more or less similarly, I just think their situation is a lot worse, because the GS team itself is different, it’s not just Klay. 

 

 

[FW_Hoosier]

5 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It’s not just Durant that they lost, they lost basically their supporting crew, Livingston et al. 

Curry, as great as he is, needs space, he’s had trouble scoring this year without it. Klay is coming back after likely a missed year, after a major injury. Getting a lottery level forward is just more youth.

I think the warriors are done, as a contender. Look around them. Clippers are seriously deep and not going away. Denver is now a clear contender with a legit star and still young. Lakers for a few years. Rockets aren’t going away. Portland will crush them every chance they get. Jazz. 

Warriors are done 

They would definitely get beat by the Clippers and probably the Lakers, but I would take a healthy Warriors team with Steph, Klay, Draymond, and a top-5 pick forward over the Rockets, Trailblazers, Nuggets, and Jazz every time.  Those teams are pretenders.

[Hoosierhoopster]

20 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

They would definitely get beat by the Clippers and probably the Lakers, but I would take a healthy Warriors team with Steph, Klay, Draymond, and a top-5 pick forward over the Rockets, Trailblazers, Nuggets, and Jazz every time.  Those teams are pretenders.

I think the Nuggets choked last year, but are for real this year -- we'll see. Jazz remains to be seen, with Conley this year. Portland, not sure - Damian is as good as anyone in my book, but the team has weaknesses. In any event, that GS "team" has nothing on the bench but youth, it has no defense, it's not winning anymore without some high-level veteran additions. A top 5 pick won't get them there (imo).

[NotIThatLives]

55 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

What Draymond showed he showed with a different team. It’s a different team, now. What he’s showing now is weak. Agree with you he needs (at least) a — healthy — Klay and Steph. 

It’s not just Klay, Steph and Draymond. Look at who else you is left on GS. Look at their youth - they are, clearly, rebuilding now, it’s not the same team, even if they get Klay back healthy, they’re defensively horrible. You do not win with 4 guys, assuming 4.

Are you critiquing the Clips based on their not having more than 2 clear all stars? They are the deepest team in the League. Without even considering PG and Kawhi — 2 of the best defensive wings in the League - they have 2 additional defensive POY types. GS? They have no one. Their D is completely non-existent. How does that change? 

We see things more or less similarly, I just think their situation is a lot worse, because the GS team itself is different, it’s not just Klay. 

 

 

Clearly the clips are the favorites for a reason this season and likely next.  Them and maybe the sixers current team will have a better top 5 next year.  Yes, i agree their defense sucks and will suck next year along with the bench.  But they also know this is the last rodeo, they will make moves.   

I still stand by my statement and will go ahead and rank that the 3rd best starting 5 next year.  

[IU Scott]

As a Pacers fan it seems like they are just caught in the middle.  They are to good to totally tank and get a high draft pick but not good enough to really compete for a championship.  To me the Pacers are in the worst place in sports and that is pretty much in the middle of the pack.  In football you still have a chance but in the NBA you really have no way of really improving your team enough to win a championship.  You won't get an elite pick in the draft so it is hard to build just through the draft.  Being in a small market you will never be able to attract the top free agents so you have to hope you hit a jackpot and find a few mid tier free agents to come and play well together.

[NotIThatLives]

20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

As a Pacers fan it seems like they are just caught in the middle.  They are to good to totally tank and get a high draft pick but not good enough to really compete for a championship.  To me the Pacers are in the worst place in sports and that is pretty much in the middle of the pack.  In football you still have a chance but in the NBA you really have no way of really improving your team enough to win a championship.  You won't get an elite pick in the draft so it is hard to build just through the draft.  Being in a small market you will never be able to attract the top free agents so you have to hope you hit a jackpot and find a few mid tier free agents to come and play well together.

Pacers are young and will be peaking I'm the next 2-3 years.  They are a well rounded team, has a competent gm that has made wise moves each year.  Brogden is perfect for Oladipo.  Warren is nice next to him.  I wonder if the most lethal lineup won't wind up being Brogden,  Oladipo,  lamb, Warren,  and one of the bigs.  Wish we could have kept Bojan along with that infusion. 

As some of these other teams age out, the pacers are aging in. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by NotIThatLives

[Hoosierhoopster]

16 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

As a Pacers fan it seems like they are just caught in the middle.  They are to good to totally tank and get a high draft pick but not good enough to really compete for a championship.  To me the Pacers are in the worst place in sports and that is pretty much in the middle of the pack.  In football you still have a chance but in the NBA you really have no way of really improving your team enough to win a championship.  You won't get an elite pick in the draft so it is hard to build just through the draft.  Being in a small market you will never be able to attract the top free agents so you have to hope you hit a jackpot and find a few mid tier free agents to come and play well together.

I think we've had this convo before!

Draft and trades -- the P's were a title contender with Reggie (draft) and particularly when they added Rose (among others) and later Jermaine and Artest et al. - but for the ridiculous 'brawl in the Palace' that team was right there as a title contender. The 99-2000 Reggie / Rose team ran into Shaq / Kobe, but it was a Finals team. We've yet to see the P's with Vic and Brogdon and everyone else healthy. I don't think they're a title contender with this group, but Milwaukee got there and the P's can too. For that matter, Philly was a doormat for years after Iverson retired, but, built primarily through the draft (Simmons, Embiid) and some trades, they're in the convo now, after a rebuilding period. 

[IU Scott]

15 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I think we've had this convo before!

Draft and trades -- the P's were a title contender with Reggie (draft) and particularly when they added Rose (among others) and later Jermaine and Artest et al. - but for the ridiculous 'brawl in the Palace' that team was right there as a title contender. The 99-2000 Reggie / Rose team ran into Shaq / Kobe, but it was a Finals team. We've yet to see the P's with Vic and Brogdon and everyone else healthy. I don't think they're a title contender with this group, but Milwaukee got there and the P's can too. For that matter, Philly was a doormat for years after Iverson retired, but, built primarily through the draft (Simmons, Embiid) and some trades, they're in the convo now, after a rebuilding period. 

To me even if VO gets back to his old self you are looking at a 3 or 4 seed at best in the East.  As long as you are picking somewhere between 16-20 every year the chances of hitting a homerun goes down.  Yes the Pacers got lucky with getting Granger and PG and Reggie after the top 10 but it is harder to do.  As for Philly they got top 3 picks like 4 or 5 years in a row and got some difference makers where the Pacers will never have that high of picks.

 

I still think they need to trade Turner so we can bring in some more talent because I don't think him and Sobonis will be able to play together on the defensive end.  I have never been a big fan of Turners because I don't like my 7'ft center only hanging out at the 3 point line.  He is a good shot blocker but I would not call him a good defensive player.

Edited November 1, 2019 by IU Scott

[BGleas]

39 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

As a Pacers fan it seems like they are just caught in the middle.  They are to good to totally tank and get a high draft pick but not good enough to really compete for a championship.  To me the Pacers are in the worst place in sports and that is pretty much in the middle of the pack.  In football you still have a chance but in the NBA you really have no way of really improving your team enough to win a championship.  You won't get an elite pick in the draft so it is hard to build just through the draft.  Being in a small market you will never be able to attract the top free agents so you have to hope you hit a jackpot and find a few mid tier free agents to come and play well together.

Agree on the Pacers. They're a really good team, really good, but you're never winning a championship and most likely never getting to the Finals with Victor Oladipo as your best player. I love Vic, it's just not happening though. I'm not saying you move Vic, Vic can absolutely be the second best player on a title team, but to win a title you need one of the top 5 or so players in the league. In most cases (the Pistons in 04 being the outlier) you need a legitimate first ballot, all-time great player to win a title. It's just how the NBA works. 

What the Sheed/Billups Pistons team did was lightning in a bottle. 

The question for the Pacers is, do they have enough young talent or can they somehow acquire enticing pics through trades, so that they have enough assets to trade for another superstar to put alongside Vic? It can be done, and other similar teams have done it. It requires a smart front office that's willing to take risks, etc. But it can be done. 

 

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree on the Pacers. They're a really good team, really good, but you're never winning a championship and most likely never getting to the Finals with Victor Oladipo as your best player. I love Vic, it's just not happening though. I'm not saying you move Vic, Vic can absolutely be the second best player on a title team, but to win a title you need one of the top 5 or so players in the league. In most cases (the Pistons in 04 being the outlier) you need a legitimate first ballot, all-time great player to win a title. It's just how the NBA works. 

What the Sheed/Billups Pistons team did was lightning in a bottle. 

The question for the Pacers is, do they have enough young talent or can they somehow acquire enticing pics through trades, so that they have enough assets to trade for another superstar to put alongside Vic? It can be done, and other similar teams have done it. It requires a smart front office that's willing to take risks, etc. But it can be done. 

 

To me going forward for the Pacer I love their back court for the future and you can win big with them (Brogdon and VO).  I really like Sabonis at the 5 but I feel they really need to upgrade the talent at the 3 and 4 sport in their starting rotation.  I think they need to get longer and more athletic at those two spots and guys who can get out and run the floor.  They need to get a lot better shooting from outside as well.  Unless the Pacers decide to trade one of their top players they don't have anything to trade to get value.  Like I said they need to trade Turner for a young 4 who is more athletic that can rebound and spread the floor.

[NotIThatLives]

Is it a sign of things to come that Sabonis blew up when Turner went down with the ankle, and then the pacers got their first w?

Granted, lots went well.  Shots were falling.  Lamb broke out.   Warren had a nice game.  They played with a sense of urgency.  

[5fouls]

Eric Gordon only shooting 28% from the field so far this season.  

[IU Scott]

Good win for the Pacers who were without Sabonis tonight so they were without 3 starters if you count VO.  How many teams could be without 3 starters and still win a game.