NBA Thread

[IU Scott]

When I see Top players now making 45-60 mil a year I look at paying someone 30 mil as a bargain.  People saying centers are irrelevant in today's game but a center had won the last two MVP's and he makes over 50 mil a year.  Embid a center was a top candidate for the MVP. Minnesota just traded 5 1st round picks and 5 players for Rudy Gorbert and he is a 1 dimensional player.

[dgambill]

29 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Even if we get Ayton and then trade Turner we would still have 16 million in cap space.  Here is how I look at it, who do you want to he the center of the future. Turner, Jackson or someone else(Ayton).  First Jackson is not close to being a starting 5 in the NBA especially on defense.  If we resign Turner you probably are looking at around 25 mil a year so do you think Turner is worth that. To me I rather pay Ayton 30 over paying Turner 25 because Ayton is a lot better player 

I’d rather not expend assets at a position that being heavily invested in $$ wise doesn’t return value. Take the 30 million and use it to bring in a wing or use it to take on contracts that allow us to draft a wing. Play Goga….after all we invested the 18th pick in the draft for him. Need to see if he is worth re-signing regardlesss. Go small with Jackson and Smith the rest of the time.

Lose…acquire more talent. You have to invest in a rebuild…going to take multiple years of losing. You start trying to build on the fly you are going to end up right back in mediocrity…never getting out of the first round. Ayton is not a piece we need to add right now. He is a final piece you add…not the first. The thing is…16 million does nothing in regards to cap space…we are talking players with 30-50 million dollar contracts. You want to eat salary to stock pile picks or get a young asset in return…you need max slot. 

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I’d rather not expend assets at a position that being heavily invested in $$ wise doesn’t return value. Take the 30 million and use it to bring in a wing or use it to take on contracts that allow us to draft a wing. Play Goga….after all we invested the 18th pick in the draft for him. Need to see if he is worth re-signing regardlesss. Go small with Jackson and Smith the rest of the time.

Lose…acquire more talent. You have to invest in a rebuild…going to take multiple years of losing. You start trying to build on the fly you are going to end up right back in mediocrity…never getting out of the first round. Ayton is not a piece we need to add right now. He is a final piece you add…not the first. The thing is…16 million does nothing in regards to cap space…we are talking players with 30-50 million dollar contracts. You want to eat salary to stock pile picks or get a young asset in return…you need max slot. 

I am so dumfounded on anyone who thinks getting Ayton is a bad thing.  His career average is 17/10 and last year WC championship he averaged 18/14. In the finals last year he averaged 15/12. If the center position is devalued then why had a center won the last 2 MVP'S.  Embid was a finalist for the MVP and Minnesota just gave up 5 1st round picks and 5 players for a one dimensional center. When I see Top players making 45-60 mil a year, I think paying a really good player 30 is a bargain.

[dgambill]

30 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I am so dumfounded on anyone who thinks getting Ayton is a bad thing.  His career average is 17/10 and last year WC championship he averaged 18/14. In the finals last year he averaged 15/12. If the center position is devalued then why had a center won the last 2 MVP'S.  Embid was a finalist for the MVP and Minnesota just gave up 5 1st round picks and 5 players for a one dimensional center. When I see Top players making 45-60 mil a year, I think paying a really good player 30 is a bargain.

It matters in the post-season…and not a single team in the final 4 were comprised with a focal point traditional center. Bam is a PF playing center, Dallas had none, Boston played with a 36 year old PF at center most of the time. GS center is off the floor when they are most dangerous. Milwaukee won it playing their center at the 3pt line. And depending on what your opinion of AD is and the bubble championship a team hasn’t won the championship in how many years with a traditional center as one of their best players. The thing about Embiid, KAT, and Jokic is they also spread the floor and do so much more than what Ayton does in effecting the game. Ayton needs others to get him the ball and in put him in position to score and those others don’t.
 

Instead of looking at Minnesota’s side of that trade look at the GM that we know is a good GM. He moved their center because he knows you can’t build a championship with a center taking up such a huge portion of your cap. He built his team with wings and guards in Boston….that can switch 1-5. It’s like saying how would you build your championship football team and saying I’m going to invest all my cap in a safety. It’s the least important position on the field so why put an enormous amount of your precious resources in that position. Much rather cobble together a few guys like Looney and Javelle McGee and Poetl or Hartenstein type guys for 6-12 million and draft and invest my cap in guards and wings. This whole thing I don’t think we land Ayton without giving up Turner and picks and I don’t care to do that to add another center who will just make us mediocre and help us miss out on a shot at a top 5 pick next year. It’s too soon to try to win…look at Detroit and OKC and Houston how they are slow building and collecting assets and using their cap space to get more assets. I don’t like the game but if you aren’t a destination franchise then you need to keep taking shots in the draft and at young players until you hit on a super star.

[dgambill]

More than anything getting Ayton is bad timing. We need a couple more years in the lottery before trying to add finishing pieces. Ayton is a good player…but we need to be bad right now. It’s like meeting the right girl at the wrong time. We aren’t ready to settle down just yet. We need to invest in being bad right now….just run out young guys and lose games. Do what San Antonio is doing….heck they sold off their all star young stud…not looking to add difference makers that will cost them in the draft.

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

More than anything getting Ayton is bad timing. We need a couple more years in the lottery before trying to add finishing pieces. Ayton is a good player…but we need to be bad right now. It’s like meeting the right girl at the wrong time. We aren’t ready to settle down just yet. We need to invest in being bad right now….just run out young guys and lose games. Do what San Antonio is doing….heck they sold off their all star young stud…not looking to add difference makers that will cost them in the draft.

Totally disagree with you on this. Ayton is 24 and just coming into his prime.  This young nucleus could have the makings of a good team.  Also we will probably have two or 3 first round picks next year. 

Haliburton

Mathurin

Duarte 

Smith 

Ayton

All of these guys are lottery picks.

Jackson 

Brown 

Taylor 

PG from Gonzaga but can't remember his name

 

 

 

 

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

I am so dumfounded on anyone who thinks getting Ayton is a bad thing.  His career average is 17/10 and last year WC championship he averaged 18/14. In the finals last year he averaged 15/12. If the center position is devalued then why had a center won the last 2 MVP'S.  Embid was a finalist for the MVP and Minnesota just gave up 5 1st round picks and 5 players for a one dimensional center. When I see Top players making 45-60 mil a year, I think paying a really good player 30 is a bargain.

Here is why it could be a bad thing for the Pacers. Are the Pacers ready to invest in winning? Like really invest?

I like Ayton and think adding him is a good move for Pacers. Players of that caliber don't typically choose Indiana as free agents. 

With that said, if the Pacers ownership isn't really ready to invest in winning then it might backfire. 

You're not winning a title or probably even making the Finals if Ayton is your best or 2nd best player. He's not that guy. He's a core piece, but he's not that guy. 

So with bringing in Ayton, are the Pacers willing to give Haliburton the max later and also potentially another max player at some point to get over the hump in the East?

Their history says no, and if they're not then I'd say investing a max contract in the Center position isn't the way to go. 

[FKIM01]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

When I see Top players now making 45-60 mil a year I look at paying someone 30 mil as a bargain.  People saying centers are irrelevant in today's game but a center had won the last two MVP's and he makes over 50 mil a year.  Embid a center was a top candidate for the MVP. Minnesota just traded 5 1st round picks and 5 players for Rudy Gorbert and he is a 1 dimensional player.

I'm no insider or particularly knowledgeable about the NBA but I said it when I heard it and I'll repeat it now...that just looks like a monumentally bad trade on Minnesota's part.

[5fouls]

Is Reggie Miller still on the Pacers?

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Here is why it could be a bad thing for the Pacers. Are the Pacers ready to invest in winning? Like really invest?

I like Ayton and think adding him is a good move for Pacers. Players of that caliber don't typically choose Indiana as free agents. 

With that said, if the Pacers ownership isn't really ready to invest in winning then it might backfire. 

You're not winning a title or probably even making the Finals if Ayton is your best or 2nd best player. He's not that guy. He's a core piece, but he's not that guy. 

So with bringing in Ayton, are the Pacers willing to give Haliburton the max later and also potentially another max player at some point to get over the hump in the East?

Their history says no, and if they're not then I'd say investing a max contract in the Center position isn't the way to go. 

Mathurin has a chance to be your best super as well.  It is not like Ayton is 30 years old and you are going for it right away.  He is only 24 and can grow with the rest of the young players. I kind of think of it when we traded for Jermaine O'Neal who finally got the chance to he the man and flourished.  Ayton has been better than O'Neal was early in their career.  I have liked Ayton from the first time I saw him at Arizona. I loved the race that I actually saw a college player who actually had a low post moves.  He had some of the best post moves I have seen in the college game in awhile.

I think he he came here he would average around 20 and 12

[IU Scott]

9 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I'm no insider or particularly knowledgeable about the NBA but I said it when I heard it and I'll repeat it now...that just looks like a monumentally bad trade on Minnesota's part.

I totally agree it was a horrible trade. Gorbert has little offensive game and he is mainly a rebounder and shot blocker.

Edited July 14, 2022 by IU Scott

[FKIM01]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I totally agree it was a horrible trade. Gorbert has little offensive game and he is mainly a rebounder and shit blocker.

Some of your typos are just awesome man...just call that man Imodium. 

Thanks for a good LOL...

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

Some of your typos are just awesome man...just call that man Imodium. 

Thanks for a good LOL...

Oooops

[BobSaccamanno]

15 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I'm no insider or particularly knowledgeable about the NBA but I said it when I heard it and I'll repeat it now...that just looks like a monumentally bad trade on Minnesota's part.

Insanely bad.  Like Ted Stepien bad.  

[BGleas]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Mathurin has a chance to be your best super as well.  It is not like Ayton is 30 years old and you are going for it right away.  He is only 24 and can grow with the rest of the young players. I kind of think of it when we traded for Jermaine O'Neal who finally got the chance to he the man and flourished.  Ayton has been better than O'Neal was early in their career.  I have liked Ayton from the first time I saw him at Arizona. I loved the race that I actually saw a college player who actually had a low post moves.  He had some of the best post moves I have seen in the college game in awhile.

I think he he came here he would average around 20 and 12

You're completely ignoring my point though. I said I like Ayton and think the Pacers probably need to do it. 

My point was about the financials. Are the Pacers ready to invest in winning? Are they read to give Ayton and Haliburton the max, and potentially another player in the next few years? 

Are they ready to pay the luxury tax to invest in competing in a meaningful way?

If that answer is no, then I would pass on Ayton. If it's yes, then I really like it. 

[dgambill]

I like Ayton….just think the timing is not right. I’d even say if this was after next offseason and we’ve found our franchise piece in the draft then sure thing…but I need that centerpiece for us before I invest in auxiliary pieces. We don’t even have a J Brown piece on this roster….much less a Tatum. We are a long way off. Ayton fits a team like Atlanta or Toronto…a team that has a great nucleus of young talent. Someone to compliment the stars they already have. We haven’t acquired enough talent imo. That’s my feelings….and totally focused on if Ayton continues to get better and not even considering the personality red flags that are definitely there as well.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

I like Ayton….just think the timing is not right. I’d even say if this was after next offseason and we’ve found our franchise piece in the draft then sure thing…but I need that centerpiece for us before I invest in auxiliary pieces. We don’t even have a J Brown piece on this roster….much less a Tatum. We are a long way off. Ayton fits a team like Atlanta or Toronto…a team that has a great nucleus of young talent. Someone to compliment the stars they already have. We haven’t acquired enough talent imo. That’s my feelings….and totally focused on if Ayton continues to get better and not even considering the personality red flags that are definitely there as well.

For the ones against Ayton right now what do you think the Pacers should do at the center position.  I would hope you wouldn't want to extend Turner for probably 25 mil a year.  Do you trade him now and not have a starting center on your roster or keep him and let him walk next year for nothing.

[FKIM01]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

For the ones against Ayton right now what do you think the Pacers should do at the center position.  I would hope you wouldn't want to extend Turner for probably 25 mil a year.  Do you trade him now and not have a starting center on your roster or keep him and let him walk next year for nothing.

If the choice is Turner for $25 million or Ayton for $30 million, I'd take a flyer on Ayton.  I think the Turner experiment has been given enough time to prove out.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

If the choice is Turner for $25 million or Ayton for $30 million, I'd take a flyer on Ayton.  I think the Turner experiment has been given enough time to prove out.

Totally agree because Ayton is far superior offensive player and rebounder 

[dgambill]

43 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Mathurin has a chance to be your best super as well.  It is not like Ayton is 30 years old and you are going for it right away.  He is only 24 and can grow with the rest of the young players. I kind of think of it when we traded for Jermaine O'Neal who finally got the chance to he the man and flourished.  Ayton has been better than O'Neal was early in their career.  I have liked Ayton from the first time I saw him at Arizona. I loved the race that I actually saw a college player who actually had a low post moves.  He had some of the best post moves I have seen in the college game in awhile.

I think he he came here he would average around 20 and 12

I’ll take a platoon of 2-3 mediocre guys that can play off Halliburton and give me 10-6 a night and cost me 1/5 the price. Jmo….Lot of guys can run a pick n roll and be a finisher. This isn’t 2005….people aren’t running their offense through the post. 

[dgambill]

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

For the ones against Ayton right now what do you think the Pacers should do at the center position.  I would hope you wouldn't want to extend Turner for probably 25 mil a year.  Do you trade him now and not have a starting center on your roster or keep him and let him walk next year for nothing.

You have Goga and Theis on the roster…what are you talking about no centers?! Not to mention Jackson and Smith can play small. We literally have like 8 guards and 5 centers on this roster lol.

Edited July 14, 2022 by dgambill

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

If the choice is Turner for $25 million or Ayton for $30 million, I'd take a flyer on Ayton.  I think the Turner experiment has been given enough time to prove out.

I’d agree but who is extending Turner for 25? This is the first I’ve heard of that…why would we do that? Can’t imagine they didn’t learn something from the Brogdon extension that backfired on us.

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

You have Goga and Theis on the roster…what are you talking about no centers?! Not to mention Jackson and Smith can play small. We literally have like 8 guards and 5 centers on this roster lol.

SMH LOL with Goga and Theis. Jackson is not a starting 5 in the NBA right now.  He was being bullied last night against Duren on defense.  Jackson is like 6'9 and 220 and couldn't guard most centers 

Edited July 14, 2022 by IU Scott

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I’d agree but who is extending Turner for 25? This is the first I’ve heard of that…why would we do that? Can’t imagine they didn’t learn something from the Brogdon extension that backfired on us.

He has 1 year left and that would be the going rate for him if you extended him.  Gorbert is making 39 mil and he is a one dimensional player just like Turner

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

SMH LOL with Goga and This. Jackson is not a starting 5 in the NBA right now.  He was being

Why did we take Goga with the 18th pick if not to play him? Theis is more than serviceable. We are talking past each other. Who cares who starts at the 5….the point is to lose. Do you think the Spurs are losing sleep because they traded their stud young all-star guard and worried about who will start in the backcourt. I think we have opposing objectives. I want to run out the kids and let them develop and hopefully lose games…you seem to want to make the play in tournament. We just disagree.