The 2019-20 College Basketball Season (non-IU)

[Hoosierhoopster]

7 minutes ago, rico said:

Eye test?  But what do the analytics say?  Geez.  They tell me 11-3 with a loss to a ranked team and 2 others to teams receiving votes.  LOL

Our team definitely has holes -- consistent shooting / spacing / wing play / repeatedly injured starting point guard -- but it also has real strengths and demonstrated ability to win against good teams and including when the other team makes a real run (e.g., ND). We can definitely be a tourney team. Whether we get there starts with this 6-game stretch. 3-3 or better and we're well on our way, imo.

[Seeking6]

5 minutes ago, rico said:

Eye test?  But what do the analytics say?  Geez.  They tell me 11-3 with a loss to a ranked team and 2 others to teams receiving votes.  LOL

Kind of where I'm at....especially with 2 of those on the road. I'm going to try my best to flip the switch a little. We have top 100 NET rankings wins over FSU, UConn, ND, La Tech too. By no means am I forgetting end of Arkansas game but want to see a few more weeks before I go tilto again. 

[rico]

For your reading pleasure...

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/board/123/Contents/is-holtman-the-answer-141589343/

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

I get all the tongue in cheek comments regarding Holtman and CAM.  I try not to worry or compare other coaches outside of ours. At this point the product we put on the floor does not pass the eye test. 

I just see the problems we have are the same problems that the majority of teams have across college basketball.  There are a few top teams that are playing well and then you have a bunch of teams that are in the middle and a lot of mediocrity.

[Billingsley99]

31 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I just see the problems we have are the same problems that the majority of teams have across college basketball.  There are a few top teams that are playing well and then you have a bunch of teams that are in the middle and a lot of mediocrity.

I disagree big time.  There are many teams that dont shoot well but still play hard.  We dont fall into that category 

[Billingsley99]

1 hour ago, rico said:

Eye test?  But what do the analytics say?  Geez.  They tell me 11-3 with a loss to a ranked team and 2 others to teams receiving votes.  LOL

They tell me we hang around with teams we should blow out. We won against a top 10 team with a once in a lifetime performance from DG. We were down by 30 in each road game in the conference.  I can say more once we play and beat some mediocre teams on the road. Time will tell

[13th&Jackson]

23 minutes ago, rico said:

For your reading pleasure...

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/board/123/Contents/is-holtman-the-answer-141589343/

Going 10-16 in the B1G over the last two seasons will cause that reaction. It was lost in our 1-12 conference disaster last year, but OSU had B1G stretches last year of 1-6 and 2-6 including losses to Rutgers, Ill and NW.

Take out the Bates-Diop year 1 and records are very similar, although I'd argue they have a more talented roster. They had the edge with the two head to head wins last year, though.

Holtman got a longer honeymoon due to his first year and a fan base that doesn't care nearly as much. From what I've seen so far from him and CAM, if they had been interchanged, I don't know if the results would have been much different for either program.

If Holtman was at IU, I suspect he'd be getting roasted, same as CAM.

 

[GrangerHoosier]

Have to wonder if the NCAA moves the 3 pt line back up to where it was before following this season.

No one wants to watch teams shoot so poorly from outside. 

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, GrangerHoosier said:

Have to wonder if the NCAA moves the 3 pt line back up to where it was before following this season.

No one wants to watch teams shoot so poorly from outside. 

Well coaches need to go back and just worry about getting best shot than worry about what analytics thinks is a good shot.  The outside shooting is so bad this year and I can't think of one player off the top of my head who I would call a pure shooter.  Just get a good motion to your offense with moving and cutting and if the best open shot is a 12-15 foot shot then take it.  also stop these kids from taking these stupid floaters instead of actually stopping and taking a jump shot.  This is my pet peeve this year in basketball is the stupid floaters I see taken that seem to never go in.

[Muckraker]

6 hours ago, rico said:

Baylor won at Texas Tech.

Fire Chris Beard! 😅😅

[Billingsley99]

2 minutes ago, Muckraker said:

Fire Chris Beard! 😅😅

Baylor is also ranked #4 and I don't think Tech was ever down 30 but maybe.. did not watch. We continue to make these comments about those coaches that have their teams in the top 25 I can only pray that we get there. 

[IU Scott]

16 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Baylor is also ranked #4 and I don't think Tech was ever down 30 but maybe.. did not watch. We continue to make these comments about those coaches that have their teams in the top 25 I can only pray that we get there. 

I think we are all saying people need to stop over reacting to a game or two and look at the big picture.  Everybody earlier in the year was coming here and saying we made a mistake by not getting Holtman because they started off so well. 

[Billingsley99]

24 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think we are all saying people need to stop over reacting to a game or two and look at the big picture.  Everybody earlier in the year was coming here and saying we made a mistake by not getting Holtman because they started off so well. 

I am looking at the 20 year big picture. I have not seen anything to make me think anything will be better in the near future. At least those other coaches getting mentioned have their teams getting discussed.  How many teams across the country have fans saying if only we had CAM just look at IU

This is my last post about the state of our program.  Are we were we should be, or where fans think be should 2.5 years into this tenure. If yes and I am wrong then IU basketball has lost much much more than even I thought. I am not saying we missed on the hire just not satisfied with results to this point. Hopefully the ship gets righted

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I am looking at the 20 year big picture. I have not seen anything to make me think anything will be better in the near future. At least those other coaches getting mentioned have their teams getting discussed.  How many teams across the country have fans saying if only we had CAM just look at IU

This is my last post about the state of our program.  Are we were we should be, or where fans think be should 2.5 years into this tenure. If yes and I am wrong then IU basketball has lost much much more than even I thought. I am not saying we missed on the hire just not satisfied with results to this point. Hopefully the ship gets righted

That is another frustration I have is that Archie has nothing to do with those 20 years so he should not be lumped into those years.  Nobody is happy with the results so far but some can be patient and let Archie get his 4 years that he deserves to see if he can get us to where we all want to be.  As for Archie there were plenty of people saying how Archie was the most sought after candidate out there the year we got him.  Like I have said Archie was not my choice for the coaching position but I feel we all need to let him have some time to sink or swim.

[Billingsley99]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

That is another frustration I have is that Archie has nothing to do with those 20 years so he should not be lumped into those years.  Nobody is happy with the results so far but some can be patient and let Archie get his 4 years that he deserves to see if he can get us to where we all want to be.  As for Archie there were plenty of people saying how Archie was the most sought after candidate out there the year we got him.  Like I have said Archie was not my choice for the coaching position but I feel we all need to let him have some time to sink or swim.

You are 100% correct and we can wait another 20 or even until all fans that remember IU being relevant are dead.  It makes no difference. What I do know is that I love Indiana University I love IU basketball but i do not love watching what we have been force fed the past several years. Its hard to come back from apathy and the more IU fans I talk to the more I find are there. I don't want anyone fired I have no idea if he is a good coach a great coach or a terrible coach but our current team is 7-0 against the 5th worst schedule in D1 and we are 4-3 against the middle of the road schedule and we now have to go play the toughest schedule in the nation the rest of the way. Sorry that I can't look at it and be positive. 

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

You are 100% correct and we can wait another 20 or even until all fans that remember IU being relevant are dead.  It makes no difference. What I do know is that I love Indiana University I love IU basketball but i do not love watching what we have been force fed the past several years. Its hard to come back from apathy and the more IU fans I talk to the more I find are there. I don't want anyone fired I have no idea if he is a good coach a great coach or a terrible coach but our current team is 7-0 against the 5th worst schedule in D1 and we are 4-3 against the middle of the road schedule and we now have to go play the toughest schedule in the nation the rest of the way. Sorry that I can't look at it and be positive. 

You act like you are the only one on here that feels that way but all of us love IU basketball and want to be elite again.  I just know the programs or organization that have continuity are the ones you see on top most of the time.  The teams who go through coaches or GM's every other year who see are the inept teams.  If after next year we are seeing this same things, then yes it will be time to move on but why hold the last 20 years against Archie.

[Billingsley99]

Just now, IU Scott said:

You act like you are the only one on here that feels that way but all of us love IOU basketball and want to be elite again.  I just no the programs or organization that have continuity are the ones you see on top most of the time.  The teams who go through coaches or GM's every other year who see are the inept teams.  If after next year we are seeing this same things, then yes it will be time to move on but why hold the last 20 years against Archie.

So what you are saying if I read it correctly. Lets wait and see if we stink it up this year, miss on the most highly regarded in state recruiting class in a very long time, stink next year then just start the process over again. OK i got it. I will just sit back relax and say yeah team please give me a participation trophy for trying.

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

So what you are saying if I read it correctly. Lets wait and see if we stink it up this year, miss on the most highly regarded in state recruiting class in a very long time, stink next year then just start the process over again. OK i got it. I will just sit back relax and say yeah team please give me a participation trophy for trying.

Well if you want to look at things negatively then yes but I look at it as Archie getting it turned around.  I guess I look at some of the top coaches out there that struggled their first 3 or 4 years and finally got it turned around.  Not saying Archie is going to be the next great coach but you don't want to be the one that fired the next coach K.  I see the Browns fired Bill Bellicheck? after a few years and now do you think they wished they kept him.

I get it we are all frustrated it is taking so long but I have been around long enough to see 3 championships so I know the high's of IU basketball.  I remember in 81 the day of the championship I was on spring break and was waiting for game time the whole day.  It was also the day that president Reagan got shot so at one time they thought about cancelling the game.

[Parakeet Jones]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

You act like you are the only one on here that feels that way 

That statement is complete bunk.  He is acting in no such way.  

[rico]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

You act like you are the only one on here that feels that way but all of us love IU basketball and want to be elite again.  I just know the programs or organization that have continuity are the ones you see on top most of the time.  The teams who go through coaches or GM's every other year who see are the inept teams.  If after next year we are seeing this same things, then yes it will be time to move on but why hold the last 20 years against Archie.

Scott, I think a lot in here feel as Billingsley does.  And in your own words, that you say quite often, it is his opinion and is entitled to it.  In other words, if that is how he feels none of us are going to change it.

It seems some have a double standard around here when it comes to rooting for our beloved Hoosiers.  We are allowed to poke and jest about our football squad .  But basketball is off limits?  We can be apathetic about one but not the other?

That being said I am pro-Archie, but to say that I am not concerned is quite the understatement.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Scott, I think a lot in here feel as Billingsley does.  And in your own words, that you say quite often, it is his opinion and is entitled to it.  In other words, if that is how he feels none of us are going to change it.

It seems some have a double standard around here when it comes to rooting for our beloved Hoosiers.  We are allowed to poke and jest about our football squad .  But basketball is off limits?  We can be apathetic about one but not the other?

That being said I am pro-Archie, but to say that I am not concerned is quite the understatement.

I never said that about our football program and I am the one that gets on fans leaving early at the football games.  I also am concerned but not to the point that I will lose total hope and keep me from watching every game.

[Billingsley99]

30 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I never said that about our football program and I am the one that gets on fans leaving early at the football games.  I also am concerned but not to the point that I will lose total hope and keep me from watching every game.

Maybe this will put things in a better perspective. Once upon i put nothing ahead of Indiana basketball.  I lost jobs girlfriends money etc because of it. At times my 2 older kids joked that when IU was on that was the only important thing to me. Since things have happened with Ayden I realize just how important time really is.  For me IU is not must watch TV. It does not bring the same level of joy that it used to. My love is the same but if I give up my time to watch i want to see a quality product. Currently I don't.  This saturday is a big game RMK might be coming back and i truly hope so. Ayden wants to go to the Indianapolis garage sale at fairgrounds so that's what we will do. I have come to the conclusion that I can see bad basketball at the ymca, or jr high or many other places.  I am tired of seeing it played by our Indiana Hoosiers 

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Maybe this will put things in a better perspective. Once upon i put nothing ahead of Indiana basketball.  I lost jobs girlfriends money etc because of it. At times my 2 older kids joked that when IU was on that was the only important thing to me. Since things have happened with Ayden I realize just how important time really is.  For me IU is not must watch TV. It does not bring the same level of joy that it used to. My love is the same but if I give up my time to watch i want to see a quality product. Currently I don't.  This saturday is a big game RMK might be coming back and i truly hope so. Ayden wants to go to the Indianapolis garage sale at fairgrounds so that's what we will do. I have come to the conclusion that I can see bad basketball at the ymca, or jr high or many other places.  I am tired of seeing it played by our Indiana Hoosiers 

I would hope you would put family before anything else and I have done the same thing but it isn't because I have lost faith in IU.  I think a lot of people is like that at that is maturing and growing up.  I remember scheduling my classes at IU East so they would not interfere with watching IU play.  sometimes I tried to get no classes on Thursday and Friday's because I did not want to miss any games of the NCAA Tournament.

[BGleas]

I get what Billingsley is saying, and I largely feel how he does at the moment, and this tweet doesn't absolve IU or Archie of where the program is currently. But with that said, there were a lot of posters the last two years acting like IU made some monumental mistake by not hiring Holtmann or even Chris Mack. I will die on the hill saying that Holtmann took over a vastly better situation and roster. 

Edit: "Vastly" might be a strong word, but it was a better situation and roster, and yes I know where OSU was projected Holtmann's first year and I don't care. The roster was much better. 

[Lurker]

Personally I'm pretty tired of hearing about possibly missing out on the '21 Indiana HS kids.  I just want to see Archie coach whoever does want to come to IU.  I look at Butler and how they get guys that fit what they do and to me that is what IU is going to have to do.  I don't see a quick fix to return to NCAA title contention but I think you have to give CAM time to try.  I see people looking at the '20 recruits and seeing little hope for improvement but if you look at it that way Green and Durham were ranked around 200-250 so there should be more optimism about the "20 class which has higher ranked guys. I know it's hard to accept but this is not the IU basketball from Coach Knight's heyday.