Conspiracy Theory: Devonte Green

[zerawkid]

First, I want to say that I sincerely am not a person who tries to read a book by its cover. I try very hard not to derive things about people and their attitudes or motivations based on little glimpses I get from television cameras, or even extended looks at their play in-game. 

Second, I am beyond frustrated with this team and growing more discontent with Archie, all the time. However, it's incredible to me how much more success he had at UD with far less, less resource and less talented players (top-bottom). 

Third, and I want to make sure I have this straight, but, Devonte Green is the player-selected team captain on our squad this season, right?

Okay...here goes:

There were one or two times the camera selected for the live feed during broadcast was on Devonte on the bench being spoken to by Archie. What was of note was that little if any eye contact was made. Responses from Devonte appeared to be rather dismissive of what he was being told. This is subjective viewing on my part, and I try to read no more into it other than what I think I saw with my own two eyes. 

I wanted as badly as anyone for Devonte to catch fire this year. Save his one, remarkable, 35-point explosion a couple weeks ago, we haven't enjoyed even a statistically inconsistent Devonte. He's been bad. He rarely plays within the flow of the offensive. His defense is average, at best. He's either a turnover machine or dribbling like crazy. He has no real idea how to make an entry pass that's catchable. He rarely appears to be motivated. 

I believe Archie plays him because he believes he's the best chance we have to win, more often than not (that's a whole other discussion). 

The part that brings his team captain status into things: if he's the guy the rest of the boys voted to be their leader on the captaincy, it's safe to assume a number of them probably think highly of him, look up to him, and perhaps take their cues from and attempt to emulate. Of course it shouldn't go down this way, but locker room cancers are a very real thing in sports, and the relatively small size of a basketball team makes it easier for the energy and attitude of a single player to have an undeniable and nearly impossible to combat effect on the majority of guys on the squad. 

I dunno...just some things that crossed my mind, perhaps the underlying predicate has been lingering, but there are things with CAM, Devonte, and this program that just don't seem to add up to me.

[BADGERVOL]

IF this is the case, and I don’t think it’s a huge reach, then we have to ask these questions IMO...

1.) How did he become captain? If the players voted why wouldn’t the coaching staff make an attempt to say “no, we like Green as a person but he’s not where we want him to be to lead us.” That would send a HUGE message to the rest of the team. If they didn’t do something like that then you’d have to think they knew they’d lose almost the entire TEAM, which would imply “holy crap is this team screwed up if the vast majority all believe Green is what players should be.”

2.) Why is he even still here if he’s that bad of a cancer both on his end and ours? If he’s that far from coach able by CAM he wouldn’t want to be here at all. Nor would CAM want him here. What is going on that he’s still here? 

[Zlinedavid]

Juwan Morgan said Devonte was the one who kept him from transferring. And JMo is about as solid of a character guy as there is. That's enough for me.

Just because he's a loose cannon on the court doesn't mean he's a loose Cannon off of it.

[Fiveoutofsix]

9 minutes ago, zerawkid said:

First, I want to say that I sincerely am not a person who tries to read a book by its cover. I try very hard not to derive things about people and their attitudes or motivations based on little glimpses I get from television cameras, or even extended looks at their play in-game. 

Second, I am beyond frustrated with this team and growing more discontent with Archie, all the time. However, it's incredible to me how much more success he had at UD with far less, less resource and less talented players (top-bottom). 

Third, and I want to make sure I have this straight, but, Devonte Green is the player-selected team captain on our squad this season, right?

Okay...here goes:

There were one or two times the camera selected for the live feed during broadcast was on Devonte on the bench being spoken to by Archie. What was of note was that little if any eye contact was made. Responses from Devonte appeared to be rather dismissive of what he was being told. This is subjective viewing on my part, and I try to read no more into it other than what I think I saw with my own two eyes. 

I wanted as badly as anyone for Devonte to catch fire this year. Save his one, remarkable, 35-point explosion a couple weeks ago, we haven't enjoyed even a statistically inconsistent Devonte. He's been bad. He rarely plays within the flow of the offensive. His defense is average, at best. He's either a turnover machine or dribbling like crazy. He has no real idea how to make an entry pass that's catchable. He rarely appears to be motivated. 

I believe Archie plays him because he believes he's the best chance we have to win, more often than not (that's a whole other discussion). 

The part that brings his team captain status into things: if he's the guy the rest of the boys voted to be their leader on the captaincy, it's safe to assume a number of them probably think highly of him, look up to him, and perhaps take their cues from and attempt to emulate. Of course it shouldn't go down this way, but locker room cancers are a very real thing in sports, and the relatively small size of a basketball team makes it easier for the energy and attitude of a single player to have an undeniable and nearly impossible to combat effect on the majority of guys on the squad. 

I dunno...just some things that crossed my mind, perhaps the underlying predicate has been lingering, but there are things with CAM, Devonte, and this program that just don't seem to add up to me.

There comes a point when your down 30 on the road, you stop playing someone to try and win.

[rico]

My take on Green is that he has always been eyeing the next level and I don't understand why he is the Captain either.

[Proud2BAHoosier]

I was actually hoping he would transfer after last year.....

Too much inconsistency, IMO

[dgambill]

I’m one to not want to get down on the kids or take shots at them....but to me it’s clear that leadership is a problem on the team....and Devonte is the leader....make of that what you will.

[mrflynn03]

I mentioned this after the Arkansas game when TJD only got 3 touches in the second half and green was building a brick wall. 

I work with a young guy that is friends with a womens bball player and a couple cheerleaders.  Archie and green do not like each other on a personal level and Archie can not stand the way he plays according to what my coworker has heard. It seems clear it's TRUE. 

This team needs purged of crean recruits, except Race but could be argued he is an Archie recruit. 

[IU878176]

8 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I mentioned this after the Arkansas game when TJD only got 3 touches in the second half and green was building a brick wall. 

I work with a young guy that is friends with a womens bball player and a couple cheerleaders.  Archie and green do not like each other on a personal level and Archie can not stand the way he plays according to what my coworker has heard. It seems clear it's TRUE. 

This team needs purged of crean recruits, except Race but could be argued he is an Archie recruit. 

If Green is intentionally sabotaging the team we need to find out who the meanie is that keeps making Archie play him.

Give me a break...we were down 30 and Green still played. If I’m Archie and don’t like Green and/or think he is detrimental to the team and we are DOWN 30 I play a walk-on at guard.

[Brass Cannon]

4 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I mentioned this after the Arkansas game when TJD only got 3 touches in the second half and green was building a brick wall. 

I work with a young guy that is friends with a womens bball player and a couple cheerleaders.  Archie and green do not like each other on a personal level and Archie can not stand the way he plays according to what my coworker has heard. It seems clear it's TRUE. 

This team needs purged of crean recruits, except Race but could be argued he is an Archie recruit. 

He is an Archie recruit. He signed with Archie. Never Crean. 
 

If this is true then Archie should have manned up and kicked Green off the team. And used our two open scholarships on people who could have helped

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I mentioned this after the Arkansas game when TJD only got 3 touches in the second half and green was building a brick wall. 

I work with a young guy that is friends with a womens bball player and a couple cheerleaders.  Archie and green do not like each other on a personal level and Archie can not stand the way he plays according to what my coworker has heard. It seems clear it's TRUE. 

This team needs purged of crean recruits, except Race but could be argued he is an Archie recruit. 

Race is an Archie recruit

[jv1972iu]

4 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

IF this is the case, and I don’t think it’s a huge reach, then we have to ask these questions IMO...

1.) How did he become captain? If the players voted why wouldn’t the coaching staff make an attempt to say “no, we like Green as a person but he’s not where we want him to be to lead us.” That would send a HUGE message to the rest of the team. If they didn’t do something like that then you’d have to think they knew they’d lose almost the entire TEAM, which would imply “holy crap is this team screwed up if the vast majority all believe Green is what players should be.”

2.) Why is he even still here if he’s that bad of a cancer both on his end and ours? If he’s that far from coach able by CAM he wouldn’t want to be here at all. Nor would CAM want him here. What is going on that he’s still here? 

I thought that perhaps Miller was trying to show him respect...and telling Green how important he was to the team and needed to be a leader.  Who knows??

[FW_Hoosier]

9 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I mentioned this after the Arkansas game when TJD only got 3 touches in the second half and green was building a brick wall. 

I work with a young guy that is friends with a womens bball player and a couple cheerleaders.  Archie and green do not like each other on a personal level and Archie can not stand the way he plays according to what my coworker has heard. It seems clear it's TRUE. 

This team needs purged of crean recruits, except Race but could be argued he is an Archie recruit. 

I can’t wait to see our 3FG% when all the “Crean recruits” are gone.

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I can’t wait to see our 3FG% when all the “Crean recruits” are gone.

Our two best 3 point shooters are Crean recruits. Yikes how frightening is that 

[IU878176]

2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I can’t wait to see our 3FG% when all the “Crean recruits” are gone.

Ha.

How true. From a percentage standpoint our top two 3 point shooters are Green and Al.

[BADGERVOL]

7 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

I thought that perhaps Miller was trying to show him respect...and telling Green how important he was to the team and needed to be a leader.  Who knows??

That’s possible. Could be that their relationship at that time was trending in a better direction and since then has gone different. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[jv1972iu]

4 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

That’s possible. Could be that their relationship at that time was trending in a better direction and since then has gone different. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah...and there's the fact Green's brother was a Tarheel while Archie played for the Wolfpack.  😋  LOL

[IU878176]

6 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

That’s possible. Could be that their relationship at that time was trending in a better direction and since then has gone different. 🤷🏻‍♂️

If the relationship has eroded why would Archie keep him in a game that is lost in order to launch a few pointless 3 pointers? If you can’t use the bench as a motivator, when getting slaughtered, when do you use it? I just don’t see the “no-nonsense” Archie persona that was advertised and I say that as someone that wish it would surface and would love for him to work out.

[mrflynn03]

21 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

If Green is intentionally sabotaging the team we need to find out who the meanie is that keeps making Archie play him.

Give me a break...we were down 30 and Green still played. If I’m Archie and don’t like Green and/or think he is detrimental to the team and we are DOWN 30 I play a walk-on at guard.

 

20 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

He is an Archie recruit. He signed with Archie. Never Crean. 
 

If this is true then Archie should have manned up and kicked Green off the team. And used our two open scholarships on people who could have helped

I was only relaying some info I got from someone who spends alot of time around the program. 

 

[Indy1987]

16 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

If the relationship has eroded why would Archie keep him in a game that is lost in order to launch a few pointless 3 pointers? If you can’t use the bench as a motivator, when getting slaughtered, when do you use it? I just don’t see the “no-nonsense” Archie persona that was advertised and I say that as someone that wish it would surface and would love for him to work out.

Unc got trounced at home today by Georgia Tech.  Ol' Roy got so pissed he actually put 2 walkons in at one point.  That's how you hold player's accountable.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

[IU878176]

27 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

 

I was only relaying some info I got from someone who spends alot of time around the program. 

 

Thanks for your info and keep it coming.
My point was more that I just don’t get why Archie keeps playing Green, if there are issues, especially in a game that is out of hand. Did not mean it as a shot at you.

[mrflynn03]

3 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

Thanks for your info and keep it coming.
My point was more that I just don’t get why Archie keeps playing Green, if there are issues, especially in a game that is out of hand. Did not mean it as a shot at you.

I agree. I have/had alot of hope in Archie but I just dont understand why he isn't doing here what he did at Dayton with so much less. IU cant suffer another coaching change so soon. I'm just concerned.

[Zlinedavid]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Race is an Archie recruit

Correct. Race never signed with nor verballed to Crean. Can't remember if he was being recruited by Crean or not, but he committed to and ultimately signed under Archie's tenure.

[Zuckerkorn]

During the Maryland debacle there were two things on the sideline that drew my attention.  The first was in the first half, I believe.  We had a really good possession or play and it appeared that Archie walked about half way down our bench and was clapping wildly directly at someone (player).  I don't know who he might have been directing that towards or why.  At the time it seemed odd, either done to motivate or mock someone.

The second was sometime in the middle part of the second half.  During a timeout the camera was focused on our players who were in the game, sitting and listening to Archie.  Green seemed to be paying attention to what was being said, then kind of lost interest and stopped looking at the coach.  Again, I have no idea iif this was anything negative or not, but both of these instances caught my attention.  Admittedly, when your team is getting drubbed you begin to look for "problems".  Anyone see or have an observation like these?

[HoosierJax]

Devonte only has one gear and thats Devonte gear...he is only concerned about how he looks out on the floor..he likes to have flare to his game...i mean the kid tried 5 times to make those one handed zip passes with flare and never completed one against Arkansas...all turnovers...thats a possible 10 pts..thats not counting the 3's he bricked up...if CAM is going to play him then you can figure him potentially costing the team about 12-16 pts a game..the sad part is he pretty much has to play him...i think he made him a captain hoping the responsibility would settle him a bit.