Seeking6 Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 hours ago, FKIM01 said: No one is saying he's faultless, but why was he so much better at Dayton? Why was he able to get to an E8 in the tournament at Dayton when IU can't even qualify for the tournament? Did he suddenly go brain-dead on the trip from Ohio? If he didn't, what has changed? The competition level? Some games yes, some games no, but it's pretty hard to argue that his Dayton teams were inferior to his IU teams thus far. You don't think it's at all possible that he's found the compliance environment and the culture quite a bit different than what he was used to at Dayton? It's also not at all uncommon for a program to take a step or two back when adjusting to a different coaching philosophy. Of the four examples I gave in the previous page, it's a lot more cold facts than innuendo. #1 is demonstrably true. All you have to do is look at contracts from different power five schools to see that IU pays less than most of the big boys. There's also plenty of evidence for #2 looking back through IU's recent compliance history...death penalties for excess calls, players ruled ineligible over old bumper stickers and not allowing recruits to cross a gym floor just prior to a game. #3 is likewise well documented with McRobbie publicly thanking the athletic department for the millions it paid over for his newest academic building and there's plenty of evidence for #4 if you're willing to be objective and take off the crimson colored glasses. I don't see much innuendo at all for the factors I cited earlier and I think it's reasonable to draw a conclusion that they (small budget for opponents, excessively aggressive compliance, money diverted from athletics and nice but not top-notch facilities) would hamper any coaching staff placed under those constraints. There's probably a lot more that hasn't bubbled into the public domain, but those items I cited aren't exactly a secret to anyone paying attention. How do you think Chris Mack would be doing at Louisville if his compliance department nuked the program like IU's did at the end of the Sampson regime? What do you think IU's compliance department would have done to the program if they'd discovered fake classes like North Carolina used to keep their players eligible? I can guess that it would have been quite different than the defensive stance employed by UNC. It would be interesting to get Tom Crean's take on the differences in how IU is ran compared to Marquette and Georgia. If you think the examples I cited have no impact on a coach's level of success, we're not going to agree. Caught a good portion of Crean's interview with Dakich yesterday. Crean is very calculated in the way he speaks and a few times he went out of his way to mention not only Director of Basketball Operations helping but the Administration as well. Couldn't help but think he was reminding folks back in the 317 what he dealt with at IU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 40 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said: Just in case nobody saw this...Interesting tweet from Alan Henderson 2 weeks ago in relation to our AD search committee.. This is an ENORMOUS red flag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: Except it’s really not a different debate when everyone wants to put the program’s regression on the administration and literally the only thing that’s changed since we won our last conference title is the coaching staff. And you didn’t address my main point about the administration. Do you want them to start allowing Archie to play the game in recruiting, or do you want them to go out and find a new coach? The way I see it, those are really the only two changes the administration can make that are going to have a meaningful impact on the program. No, they could change each of the four things I referenced and be much more supportive of the program than they currently are. ...and compatibility with the administration is an issue. Stupid things like not allowing recruits to walk unannounced across the floor is one simple example of the current tug of war between compliance and the staff. Who knows what else they are saying no to. It's not the whole issue, but I believe it is absolutely part of the problem. How much is up for debate, but the more I've observed, the more of a problem I think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: No, they could change each of the four things I referenced and be much more supportive of the program than they currently are. ...and compatibility with the administration is an issue. Stupid things like not allowing recruits to walk unannounced across the floor is one simple example of the current tug of war between compliance and the staff. Who knows what else they are saying no to. It's not the whole issue, but I believe it is absolutely part of the problem. How much is up for debate, but the more I've observed, the more of a problem I think they are. There’s more than enough money being thrown into the program. Paying more money for buy games, upgrading facilities that have literally just been upgraded, and using whatever small portion of BTN money that’s been redirected in the past is going to magically turn IU into a top 3 program in the conference? Come on. Money is not the issue here (unless you’re talking about throwing $10M per year at a truly elite coach). #2 relates to allowing the staff to play the game in recruiting, so we agree there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: There’s more than enough money being thrown into the program. Paying more money for buy games, upgrading facilities that have literally just been upgraded, and using whatever small portion of BTN money that’s been redirected in the past is going to magically turn IU into a top 3 program in the conference? Come on. Money is not the issue here (unless you’re talking about throwing $10M per year at a truly elite coach). #2 relates to allowing the staff to play the game in recruiting, so we agree there. A top-notch program can always use more money, but it's as much HOW the money is being spent as HOW MUCH is being spent. I've repeated this in several forms several times now. You want to believe Archie is the problem, fine. I think there's a lot more going on than that and I think both time and a different tack from the administration is needed as much as anything. Your lack of patience here is unfortunately typical of the fan base. I'm done fighting this. January is a busy month for me and I'm not real fired up about discussing IU basketball right now anyway, so this will be my last word for awhile unless my mood changes dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 56 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: There’s more than enough money being thrown into the program. Paying more money for buy games, upgrading facilities that have literally just been upgraded, and using whatever small portion of BTN money that’s been redirected in the past is going to magically turn IU into a top 3 program in the conference? Come on. Money is not the issue here (unless you’re talking about throwing $10M per year at a truly elite coach). #2 relates to allowing the staff to play the game in recruiting, so we agree there. Maybe think of it this way, as if it's a professional sports team. It's not completely apples-to-apples of course, but typically the most successful pro sports teams are the ones where the owner, GM and coaching staffs are in alignment. The goals are the same and everyone for the most part is in lockstep on the strategy and how to execute it. There's synergy among all the parties. Think Spurs, Patriots, Celtics, Ravens, Steelers, Mavs, etc., etc. You get the point. The worst sports teams are the ones where the owners, the front office and the coaching staffs are disjointed or even completely opposite each other. Think the Redskins, Browns, old school Clippers back in the day, you get the picture. According to reports, in terms of how the parties work together (owner = school president, GM = AD, etc.), IU's athletic department has been much more the latter over the past 20 years. To your point, no that isn't why Al Durham can't shoot or why Devonte Green still makes bad decisions, but it's why IU is on it's 4th coach post-Knight and it's why the facilities, while better, aren't top of the line, and it's why in 2020 a program as prominent as IU has two starting guards that were both ranked outside the top 150. The micro is that Archie needs to do better (both in coaching and recruiting), the macro is that the big issues plaguing the IU basketball program the last 20 years are systematic and on the administration. It's not as simple as just getting a new coach. If the environment being described by many is accurate, and I believe it is, sure you can still win a Big Ten Title here and there, make a tourney run here and there, but long-term sustained success at a high level is going to be very, very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 23 hours ago, IU Scott said: When will he be gone Summer of 2021 i believe. Another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Indykev said: Summer of 2021 i believe. Another year. Is the BOT the one that does the search for the new president as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Is the BOT the one that does the search for the new president as well yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Also remember my understanding is they will search for a new president while McRobbie is still here. Makes you wonder how much input he will have with the BOT on the next hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 Archie can take control, now that he has all the tools needed. After listening to the Nover podcast, Archie needs to do more to use his assets- the former players. Get in the Dakitch show, even if he calls you out. Every other coach seems to and henhas battled them as well (Izzo, Crean). This is a small example, but one that explains his stubbornness. Indiana basketball is for the fans, students, alumni and not the coach. The kids do not play with that purpose and Nover brought up you need to bring in the guys that did to lead the way. Anyhow, Hoosierhysteric podcast inspired me for the above rant. Don't just invite players to a game--spend time with them and use them. Listen to the DJ Carton story they shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: Archie can take control, now that he has all the tools needed. After listening to the Nover podcast, Archie needs to do more to use his assets- the former players. Get in the Dakitch show, even if he calls you out. Every other coach seems to and henhas battled them as well (Izzo, Crean). This is a small example, but one that explains his stubbornness. Indiana basketball is for the fans, students, alumni and not the coach. The kids do not play with that purpose and Nover brought up you need to bring in the guys that did to lead the way. Anyhow, Hoosierhysteric podcast inspired me for the above rant. Don't just invite players to a game--spend time with them and use them. Listen to the DJ Carton story they shared. Maybe bring back the motion offense as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Indykev said: Maybe bring back the motion offense as well. Ha! They run a motion, hybrid type, with less off the ball movement. Ha! Maybe the flex offense would work with this group as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 7 hours ago, BGleas said: Maybe think of it this way, as if it's a professional sports team. It's not completely apples-to-apples of course, but typically the most successful pro sports teams are the ones where the owner, GM and coaching staffs are in alignment. The goals are the same and everyone for the most part is in lockstep on the strategy and how to execute it. There's synergy among all the parties. Think Spurs, Patriots, Celtics, Ravens, Steelers, Mavs, etc., etc. You get the point. The worst sports teams are the ones where the owners, the front office and the coaching staffs are disjointed or even completely opposite each other. Think the Redskins, Browns, old school Clippers back in the day, you get the picture. According to reports, in terms of how the parties work together (owner = school president, GM = AD, etc.), IU's athletic department has been much more the latter over the past 20 years. To your point, no that isn't why Al Durham can't shoot or why Devonte Green still makes bad decisions, but it's why IU is on it's 4th coach post-Knight and it's why the facilities, while better, aren't top of the line, and it's why in 2020 a program as prominent as IU has two starting guards that were both ranked outside the top 150. The micro is that Archie needs to do better (both in coaching and recruiting), the macro is that the big issues plaguing the IU basketball program the last 20 years are systematic and on the administration. It's not as simple as just getting a new coach. If the environment being described by many is accurate, and I believe it is, sure you can still win a Big Ten Title here and there, make a tourney run here and there, but long-term sustained success at a high level is going to be very, very difficult. My assessment is IU and the poorly run programs you describe are full of cowards and do gooders. IU needs an administration that has some balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 36 minutes ago, Indykev said: Maybe bring back the motion offense as well. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Any truth to the rumor on the other site that our administration wants Dolson as the next AD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 36 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: Any truth to the rumor on the other site that our administration wants Dolson as the next AD? I mentioned about a week or so ago that he was getting lots of love , no one here had any info that they shared. I dont know enough to know if that is good or bad. What do u think? I would love to see Reynolds myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 There was some discussion of Dolson being the interim at one point. That was some time ago when there was pressure to oust FG. I dunno. Maybe 1.5 years ago. There was a plan in place at the time and the actual replacement was in the works. I heard 2 names with one being priority. There was a contract in play that was a factor. There was also some booster vs trustee conflict. Like I said though, that was a short time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 I feel for the AD they need to go outside the department and bring in some new blood and my choice would be Chris Reynolds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricBoogaloo Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 On 1/7/2020 at 7:44 PM, Fiveoutofsix said: Archie can take control, now that he has all the tools needed. After listening to the Nover podcast, Archie needs to do more to use his assets- the former players. Get in the Dakitch show, even if he calls you out. Every other coach seems to and henhas battled them as well (Izzo, Crean). This is a small example, but one that explains his stubbornness. Indiana basketball is for the fans, students, alumni and not the coach. The kids do not play with that purpose and Nover brought up you need to bring in the guys that did to lead the way. Anyhow, Hoosierhysteric podcast inspired me for the above rant. Don't just invite players to a game--spend time with them and use them. Listen to the DJ Carton story they shared. I must have missed this. What is the DJ Carton story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said: I must have missed this. What is the DJ Carton story? Basically Nover was saying how important it to have former players actively part of a program and not just invited to a game. Anyhow, I guess DJ wanted to be a sports announcer and Ohio State called in a favor to Clark Kellogg to meet with him on his official visit. HoosierHysterics and Nover mentioned why IU doesn't bring in players like Buckner to do the same. They need to get the former players involved who played for the fans. Anyhow, look at their twitter site and they have free access to the podcasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/7/2020 at 9:40 AM, BADGERVOL said: This is an ENORMOUS red flag They don’t ever want a coach having so much power and influence over the university ever again. Plain and simple. They want it to continue to earn revenue but never take off fully again because they don’t ever want another Bob Knight situation ever again. It’s dumb but clearly it’s what they fear and why they handcuff the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 48 minutes ago, dgambill said: They don’t ever want a coach having so much power and influence over the university ever again. Plain and simple. They want it to continue to earn revenue but never take off fully again because they don’t ever want another Bob Knight situation ever again. It’s dumb but clearly it’s what they fear and why they handcuff the program. I totally agree and that’s why everyone with that mindset needs to be rooted out. Called out. Forced to admit that public ally so the fanbase can take action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftheref Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Isn't the women's coach under the same board and president as the men's team? She doesn't seem to have her hands tied like the men's coach does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, jefftheref said: Isn't the women's coach under the same board and president as the men's team? She doesn't seem to have her hands tied like the men's coach does. I would imagine that recruiting in the women’s game is completely different than the men’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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