Our offense

[IU Scott]

I have seen many on here who say that Archie's offense is bad and should go to another offense.  What I see is that our offense is no different than probably 90% of the offenses I see every night watching college basketball.  My question is who do you guys see out there  that actually runs a great offense great and why do you think that.  I think our offense gets good shots when it is ran right and the player execute the offense.  I think when people look at our offense as bad it is because we are just missing shots.  I think that is what people look at whether an offense is running well is whether you are hitting shots and not whether the offense is actually a god ran offense.  Most people think that Painter's offense is a good offense because you see movement away from the ball and get their shooters open looks.  well last night do you think they ran a bad offense last night or was it because they missed shots.

[rico]

Michigan St. looked good yesterday.  Winston tore it up.  That is what we ain't got.  We got guards that once they head to the rack their mind is set they are gonna shoot it and expect to get fouled.  Cassius, yesterday, drove to the hole.  If he had it, he would take it.  If not he kicked out to an open player looking for the shot.  And they weren't always three pointers as I think Sparty only attempted 15.  The point is the other 4 guys recognized what Winston was doing and prepared for it.  We don't do that...thus far.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, rico said:

Michigan St. looked good yesterday.  Winston tore it up.  That is what we ain't got.  We got guards that once they head to the rack their mind is set they are gonna shoot it and expect to get fouled.  Cassius, yesterday, drove to the hole.  If he had it, he would take it.  If not he kicked out to an open player looking for the shot.  And they weren't always three pointers as I think Sparty only attempted 15.  The point is the other 4 guys recognized what Winston was doing and prepared for it.  We don't do that...thus far.

So you are saying it is more about the players execution than it is the offense being ran.  This is what I have been saying when people complain about the offense that Archie is running because it is execution and not the offense itself.

[Madison22]

30 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Not whether the offense is actually a god ran offense.

We bomb away with threes and pray they go in? 

[Zuckerkorn]

Truthfully, we get good looks with the current system.  Being unable to hit them leads to difficulty in other facets of the offense - defenses can sag and prevent drives and interior opportunities.

I think our constant poor shooting woes feeds into the idea of "the definition of insanity".  The game plan has to suit the personnel and one or the other seem to be in need of a change.  There doesn't seem to be any personnel options, hence maybe the offensive game plan or system needs to be changed.

I don't think it's ever a bad option to consider a motion type offense.  Partly because of decades of success in the past and because I think it discourages laziness (ie standing around).  I'm not a x's & o's expert but it seems like the most fundamental way to teach and play basketball.

No matter the system, players have to make shots is paramount.

 

Edit: And to agree with Rico's point, players have to execute - regardless of system.

[rico]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

So you are saying it is more about the players execution than it is the offense being ran.  This is what I have been saying when people complain about the offense that Archie is running because it is execution and not the offense itself.

In a round about sort of way I am...but if they can't execute what Archie has designed then move on from what he is doing with this set of guys.  Maybe run some set plays in the half-court offense?  Maybe do a little more NBA 2-man game?  

[Billingsley99]

The best offense is the world is the 1 that leads to players making shots and the worst offense in the world is the one that leads to players not making shots. Make shots offense is great miss shots and offense sucks right now our offense SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!

[rico]

1 minute ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Truthfully, we get good looks with the current system.  Being unable to hit them leads to difficulty in other facets of the offense - defenses can sag and prevent drives and interior opportunities.

I think our constant poor shooting woes feeds into the idea of "the definition of insanity".  The game plan has to suit the personnel and one or the other seem to be in need of a change.  There doesn't seem to be any personnel options, hence maybe the offensive game plan or system needs to be changed.

I don't think it's ever a bad option to consider a motion type offense.  Partly because of decades of success in the past and because I think it discourages laziness (ie standing around).  I'm not a x's & o's expert but it seems like the most fundamental way to teach and play basketball.

No matter the system, players have to make shots is paramount.

We get plenty of good looks, more often than not those shots aren't taken.

[rico]

Just now, Billingsley99 said:

The best offense is the world is the 1 that leads to players making shots and the worst offense in the world is the one that leads to players not making shots. Make shots offense is great miss shots and offense sucks right now our offense SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!

And that is where offensive rebounding comes into play.

[Zuckerkorn]

1 minute ago, rico said:

We get plenty of good looks, more often than not those shots aren't taken.

Yep.  It's not like opponents are locking us down.  Decision making, shooting, etc. it all comes down to (lack of) execution.  The fix: better players and/or better teaching/coaching and that is the hard part (evidently).

[Indy1987]

Archie's offense is fine.   And you're correct it's not any different than a lot of other teams.  But there are 2 problems with what he's doing.  1) He has no dependable and consistent guard play.   How many wide open looks have we missed from the outside over the last 2 years?  It's mind numbing.  Put in a decent shooter and this offense would be really good.  And 2)Archie continues to be stubborn when it comes to going with something else.  It's like he has tunnel vision.  If you have no reliable outside shooting you can't expect your offense to run right.  Until he plays to our strengths on offense it'll be more of the same.  That is until he lands guys that can shoot.

Go Hoosiers!!!

[IU Scott]

Like Purdue's offense last year looked good because they had players who can hit tough shots

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Indy1987 said:

Archie's offense is fine.   And you're correct it's not any different than a lot of other teams.  But there are 2 problems with what he's doing.  1) He has no dependable and consistent guard play.   How many wide open looks have we missed from the outside over the last 2 years?  It's mind numbing.  Put in a decent shooter and this offense would be really good.  And 2)Archie continues to be stubborn when it comes to going with something else.  It's like he has tunnel vision.  If you have no reliable outside shooting you can't expect your offense to run right.  Until he plays to our strengths on offense it'll be more of the same.  That is until he lands guys that can shoot.

Go Hoosiers!!!

I have questioned coaches who refuse to change things when things aren't going well.  Like a defensive coach in football who always stays back in a soft zone and keep getting torched but never changes or try to get more pressure on the QB

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

Archie's offense is fine.   And you're correct it's not any different than a lot of other teams.  But there are 2 problems with what he's doing.  1) He has no dependable and consistent guard play.   How many wide open looks have we missed from the outside over the last 2 years?  It's mind numbing.  Put in a decent shooter and this offense would be really good.  And 2)Archie continues to be stubborn when it comes to going with something else.  It's like he has tunnel vision.  If you have no reliable outside shooting you can't expect your offense to run right.  Until he plays to our strengths on offense it'll be more of the same.  That is until he lands guys that can shoot.

Go Hoosiers!!!

Our strength on offense is our interior guys but when you can't hit form outside the defense can clog the lane and take the inside away.

[3Ballin]

If I'm CAM at this point, im doing my scouting around campus for sumbody that can hit a bunch of 3's.  I dont care if he looks like Butterbean;  put him on the wing or in a corner, where his "spot" is and tell him if the ball gets passed to him, shoot or pass quickly.  Dont dribble and make an attempt to get in somebodys way on defense.

#FREECOOPER

[rico]

Changes don't have to be for the whole game.  They can come in spurts.  Let's say IU jumps out to an 8-2 lead over the 'Cats. Playing the same as we always do on both ends.  All of the sudden TJD slams one home and instead of pulling back into a half court defense we put on a full court press and all of the sudden what was 8-2 becomes 16-2.  We catch NW by surprise and in a short period of time we double the lead.  Little "surprises" can lead to easy offense without running an offense.  

[IU Scott]

I guess my main point about other programs having the same problems we have on offense is that anyone we bring in if we replace Archie will probably have those same problems.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Changes don't have to be for the whole game.  They can come in spurts.  Let's say IU jumps out to an 8-2 lead over the 'Cats. Playing the same as we always do on both ends.  All of the sudden TJD slams one home and instead of pulling back into a half court defense we put on a full court press and all of the sudden what was 8-2 becomes 16-2.  We catch NW by surprise and in a short period of time we double the lead.  Little "surprises" can lead to easy offense without running an offense.  

Totally agree and the full court press worked the last 4 minutes against Maryland but it was to late.  also it seems like we never get any easy baskets from our defense and maybe it is because we never play the passing lanes.

[Inequality]

Scoring the ball makes any offense look good. This team gets a fair share of good looks and can be/has been potent on the block. It’s the consistency beyond the paint combined with the inability to feed the post or create that is lacking.
Until proven otherwise, this team can’t figure out how to capitalize efficiently in the half court set when the defense collapses on the post. Until 

[Zuckerkorn]

5 minutes ago, 3Ballin said:

If I'm CAM at this point, im doing my scouting around campus for sumbody that can hit a bunch of 3's.  I dont care if he looks like Butterbean;  put him on the wing or in a corner, where his "spot" is and tell him if the ball gets passed to him, shoot or pass quickly.  Dont dribble and make an attempt to get in somebodys way on defense.

#FREECOOPER

#SIGNBUTTERBEAN

(If he'll trade the red,white,blue trunks for candystripes)

[Indy1987]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Our strength on offense is our interior guys but when you can't hit form outside the defense can clog the lane and take the inside away.

Yep and that's what teams are doing to us.  Archie needs to be coming up with schemes and a game plan that keep us out of a slow half court offense that doesn't work without good guards.  If a guard is walking the ball up the court for us its probably not going to result in a score.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

[IowaHoosierFan]

I don't know, for a team that can't shoot very well, we spend an awful lot of time with 4 guys moving around the perimeter looking for a 3.  What i would like to see is our guys running off screens on the baseline from one sideline to the other.  Curl around screen and come back thew way you came.  Back cut after back cut.  And have more than just 1 guy running of the screen.  lets have multiple guys moving to get open.

Its not hard to defend a team that can't shoot when all of them hang around the 3 point line.

 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Indy1987 said:

Yep and that's what teams are doing to us.  Archie needs to be coming up with schemes and a game plan that keep us out of a slow half court offense that doesn't work without good guards.  If a guard is walking the ball up the court for us its probably not going to result in a score.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

You see Archie all the time trying to get the guards to get the ball up the court faster.

[rico]

1 minute ago, Indy1987 said:

Yep and that's what teams are doing to us.  Archie needs to be coming up with schemes and a game plan that keep us out of a slow half court offense that doesn't work without good guards.  If a guard is walking the ball up the court for us its probably not going to result in a score.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

 

1 minute ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I don't know, for a team that can't shoot very well, we spend an awful lot of time with 4 guys moving around the perimeter looking for a 3.  What i would like to see is our guys running off screens on the baseline from one sideline to the other.  Curl around screen and come back thew way you came.  Back cut after back cut.  And have more than just 1 guy running of the screen.  lets have multiple guys moving to get open.

Its not hard to defend a team that can't shoot when all of them hang around the 3 point line.

 

Run a simple offense doing just that...but it needs to be fast, not deliberate.  

[IowaHoosierFan]

Just now, rico said:

 

Run a simple offense doing just that...but it needs to be fast, not deliberate.  

Thats what i mean.,  I want guys running hard and as fast as they can to get from point a to point b.  I want the defense to be haggard by the end of the game chasing our guards.