2023 NFL Discussion

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Heard someone talking Wentz contract yesterday.  He's due a 10 mil bonus if he's back with philly next year and 25 mill a year.  If he's traded before such and such date they are out of that 10 mil.  

I'm not familiar with nfl contract restructuring.  How tricky is this and does Wentz have to agree?

I honestly don't know much at all when it comes to that stuff. Teams have gotten out of bad contracts before though... we're going to have some money, but we need to delegate it other places than just QB. We get a huge chunk of change from JBs contract... almost for sure he won't be on the team next year unless it's for significantly cheaper. Plus Hilton, probably Houston, Hooker, and Mack... that's like $47 million and Rivers $25 millon. $72 millon assuming all of that is right... maybe we bring back Houston for cheaper, I don't see the rest of them coming back. 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I honestly don't know much at all when it comes to that stuff. Teams have gotten out of bad contracts before though... we're going to have some money, but we need to delegate it other places than just QB. We get a huge chunk of change from JBs contract... almost for sure he won't be on the team next year unless it's for significantly cheaper. Plus Hilton, probably Houston, Hooker, and Mack... that's like $47 million and Rivers $25 millon. $72 millon assuming all of that is right... maybe we bring back Houston for cheaper, I don't see the rest of them coming back. 

We did just extend Grover, so that'll factor in. 

[NotIThatLives]

12 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I honestly don't know much at all when it comes to that stuff. Teams have gotten out of bad contracts before though... we're going to have some money, but we need to delegate it other places than just QB. We get a huge chunk of change from JBs contract... almost for sure he won't be on the team next year unless it's for significantly cheaper. Plus Hilton, probably Houston, Hooker, and Mack... that's like $47 million and Rivers $25 millon. $72 millon assuming all of that is right... maybe we bring back Houston for cheaper, I don't see the rest of them coming back. 

Yeah having 40 million tied up this year in quarterbacks that aren't taking you anywhere is a head scratcher.  Who was the colts bidding against paying Rivers 25?  I don't get it.  

[btownqb]

Just now, NotIThatLives said:

Yeah having 40 million tied up this year in quarterbacks that aren't taking you anywhere is a head scratcher.  Who was the colts bidding against paying Rivers 25?  I don't get it.  

I think the Pats... we didn't really need that money this year though. Everything else was set, we have that many young guys lol. 

[KoB2011]

I'd bring back Hilton if he'll take a team friendly deal. I'm curious to see what his market will be - he's getting old and he's a small guy who relies on his quickness and speed. 

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I'd bring back Hilton if he'll take a team friendly deal. I'm curious to see what his market will be - he's getting old and he's a small guy who relies on his quickness and speed. 

Not anywhere close to $15million a year though. Maybe like 2 years 6 million or something. Depends how this year ends. 

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Not anywhere close to $15million a year though. Maybe like 2 years 6 million or something. Depends how this year ends. 

I agree - I like the possibilities of Campbell and Pittman as long term options, but need to see them both (especially PC) stay healthy. 

[Steubenhoosier]

Another guy I'd take, probably even before Wentz, is Matthew Stafford. Lots of talk that with a new GM and HC coming in for the Lions, they may just blow things up and start over. I realize he is older than Wentz, but he is only 32. I think he is more talented, just been stuck in a sucky franchise.

[KoB2011]

24 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Another guy I'd take, probably even before Wentz, is Matthew Stafford. Lots of talk that with a new GM and HC coming in for the Lions, they may just blow things up and start over. I realize he is older than Wentz, but he is only 32. I think he is more talented, just been stuck in a sucky franchise.

I'd love Stafford. Is he a FA or would it require a trade? 

[rico]

6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I'd love Stafford. Is he a FA or would it require a trade? 

Trade, unless I am mistaken.

[rico]

Wentz...

https://fansided.com/2020/12/08/carson-wentz-trade-rumors-eagles-colts/

[rico]

Stafford...

https://nflspinzone.com/2020/12/03/matthew-stafford-rumors-landing-spots-2021/4/

[BGleas]

On 12/9/2020 at 10:44 AM, KoB2011 said:

I tend to agree. I know I kind of took a dump on him earlier in this thread, but I do think he is a guy with a lot of potential that has come closest to realizing it under Reich. Give him back to Reich with our o-line and I think you could see him reach that potential as a top 5-10 QB that @BGleas thinks he is. 

Here's where I'm at with Wentz. Clearly he has not played well at all this season. Frankly he's been bad, there's no way around it. With that said, the Eagles have done a horrible job of supporting him. This is an organizational failure, not a Wentz failure by itself. 

Howie Roseman (the Eagles GM) has done a terrible job managing the roster as the Super Bowl roster has aged out. He's stuck with the older players for nostalgia and failed to bring in quality young players to put around Wentz. He drafted JJ Arcega-Whiteside (a WR) in the 2nd round two years ago ahead of DK Metcalf and in last year's draft he took Jalen Raegor (WR) one pick ahead of Justin Jefferson. The offensive line has gotten old and injured, etc. 

Doug Pederson has also been bad. I don't have the exact numbers, but the Eagles rank something like top 5 in rushing efficiency but are something like 26th or 28th in rushing as a percent of their offense. Mile Sanders is near the top of the NFL in yards per attempt, yet he'll only get 10-12 rushed per game. Pederson abandons the run like it's his job. 

The offensive line stinks, the receivers stink, get no separation and drop a lot of passes, and Wentz is often running for his life with this line. 

With all of that said, again Wentz has not handled this well. When his receivers are open he often misses them, over throws them or just holds the ball too long and takes bad sacks. 

The bottom line again is that this is an organizational failure and Wentz has lost all confidence. The best case is probably for him to sit for a few games and hope he can see the game differently after watching. 

But, when being properly supported (solid and healthy offensive line, receivers that can get seperation, and creative play calling) he has and is capable of playing at an MVP level. 

[rico]

7 hours ago, BGleas said:

Here's where I'm at with Wentz. Clearly he has not played well at all this season. Frankly he's been bad, there's no way around it. With that said, the Eagles have done a horrible job of supporting him. This is an organizational failure, not a Wentz failure by itself. 

Howie Roseman (the Eagles GM) has done a terrible job managing the roster as the Super Bowl roster has aged out. He's stuck with the older players for nostalgia and failed to bring in quality young players to put around Wentz. He drafted JJ Arcega-Whiteside (a WR) in the 2nd round two years ago ahead of DK Metcalf and in last year's draft he took Jalen Raegor (WR) one pick ahead of Justin Jefferson. The offensive line has gotten old and injured, etc. 

Doug Pederson has also been bad. I don't have the exact numbers, but the Eagles rank something like top 5 in rushing efficiency but are something like 26th or 28th in rushing as a percent of their offense. Mile Sanders is near the top of the NFL in yards per attempt, yet he'll only get 10-12 rushed per game. Pederson abandons the run like it's his job. 

The offensive line stinks, the receivers stink, get no separation and drop a lot of passes, and Wentz is often running for his life with this line. 

With all of that said, again Wentz has not handled this well. When his receivers are open he often misses them, over throws them or just holds the ball too long and takes bad sacks. 

The bottom line again is that this is an organizational failure and Wentz has lost all confidence. The best case is probably for him to sit for a few games and hope he can see the game differently after watching. 

But, when being properly supported (solid and healthy offensive line, receivers that can get seperation, and creative play calling) he has and is capable of playing at an MVP level. 

Nice post.  Quick question.  What happens if Hurts excels?

[Seeking6]

3 hours ago, rico said:

Nice post.  Quick question.  What happens if Hurts excels?

Not an Eagles fan but as a Bears fan I'm pretty good on bad contracts. Here's a breakdown of all the options for Wentz. To answer your question if Hurts excels it still appears to me Eagles have to keep Wentz to at least next year. So much dead money that would hit cap if they just released him.....and in the meantime Hurts will be just that with their line. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-are-carson-wentzs-eagles-days-numbered-a-closer-examination-of-his-contract-tells-the-story/

[Billingsley99]

I love seeing the Patriots suffer. Superman Cam has thrown for 272 yards on the last 3 games combined. Mahomeshas thrown for more in a half this year. I dont see a quick fix. 

[BGleas]

7 hours ago, rico said:

Nice post.  Quick question.  What happens if Hurts excels?

Thanks! I really still believe in Wentz if the Eagles can shore up the offensive line and actually get him a real wide receiver. 

People say Aaron Rodgers doesn't have weapons, well Wentz would kill for Devonte Adam's. His best receiver (Fulgham) is a guy who was on the Panthers practice squad. 

To be honest, the best case scenario IMO for the Eagles is for Hurts to be average at best, or maybe even struggle, and for Wentz to get another shot after sitting a couple games and getting a chance to breath. 

It sounds crazy, but the Eagles biggest problem would almost be Hurts excelling. Then what do you do with Wentz and that contract? You have $25-$30M in just dead cap space sitting on your bench? How do you field a team with that dead money just sitting there?

The Eagles need Wentz to figure it out and the front office to get its act together. That's the best case.

[rico]

22 hours ago, BGleas said:

Thanks! I really still believe in Wentz if the Eagles can shore up the offensive line and actually get him a real wide receiver. 

People say Aaron Rodgers doesn't have weapons, well Wentz would kill for Devonte Adam's. His best receiver (Fulgham) is a guy who was on the Panthers practice squad. 

To be honest, the best case scenario IMO for the Eagles is for Hurts to be average at best, or maybe even struggle, and for Wentz to get another shot after sitting a couple games and getting a chance to breath. 

It sounds crazy, but the Eagles biggest problem would almost be Hurts excelling. Then what do you do with Wentz and that contract? You have $25-$30M in just dead cap space sitting on your bench? How do you field a team with that dead money just sitting there?

The Eagles need Wentz to figure it out and the front office to get its act together. That's the best case.

Another question from left field...What happens if Pederson gets fired as to it's effect on the Wentz situation?

[BGleas]

8 minutes ago, rico said:

Another question from left field...What happens if Pederson gets fired as to it's effect on the Wentz situation?

I think everything is on the table for the Eagles. Pederson could get fired, though I think the Super Bowl win buys him one more year, Howie Roseman could get fired, the Wentz situation could go any number of ways. 

I personally think Pederson has done a pretty bad job this year, and I've never been a huge, huge fan, but the SB win surely bought him some clout. The question would be who would you hire? If the Eagles aren't first in line for the top available coach, then I'd just rather keep Pederson. At least you know he's capable of winning a super bowl. 

But again, the Eagles have just done a really poor job of transitioning from the Super Bowl team. That quickly became an aging roster and they hung onto to these older players, at the detriment of developing young guys. 

Now you have Wentz surrounded by an old, injured offensive line, no offensive weapons whatsoever (really his receivers are Greg Ward, Fulgham and Jalen Reagor, two of those guys are former practice squad guys), a defense with a terrible secondary and no linebackers, etc., etc. 

That's all why I often think this isn't a Wentz thing, granted he's been pretty bad, but the organization has done a horrible job supporting him. 

[NotIThatLives]

Pretty sure Wentz contract is 25 + a 10 mil bonus if he's back with Eagles.  If he is traded eagles get out of that bonus and obviously the other team picks up the 25.  Two things here with Hurts.  He's mobile so he is less likely and less costly to get hurt.  I'd guess he plays the year out and they just protect Wentz(literally physically and his trade value) and either blow it up completely or role it back.  Problem is rebuilding takes a while and you have a shakey qb taking up 35 mil in salary.  Though I'm not sure the 10 mil bonus goes against cap.  

I'd take Stafford over Rivers and Wentz.  For the record.  

Edit.  His cap hit is 34,673,00 woof.  

Edited December 13, 2020 by NotIThatLives

[NotIThatLives]

And Philly releases through Shefty, that they intend to roll it back with Wentz next year.  

That's what I figured. Play Hurts to protect him.  

[BGleas]

26 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

And Philly releases through Shefty, that they intend to roll it back with Wentz next year.  

That's what I figured. Play Hurts to protect him.  

It's the right move. I still don't think he necessarily sits the remainder of the year either. You need to find a way to get his confidence and his play right before the end of the year so this isn't the major storyline all offseason. 

But again, I'm not defending Wentz as he's been terrible, but this season and his play is an organization wide failure, not just bad play from Wentz. They've done a terrible job of supporting him. 

[Hoosierfan1901]

Colts all the way down to the 6

[Hoosierfan1901]

TD Colts up 10-0 2:59 1Q

[IU Scott]

Colt's DB's is getting torched so far and now down 14-10.  Don't understand how this defense can't come to play in the first half of games.

Edited December 13, 2020 by IU Scott