Excitement

[OLDIUFAN]

Archie, needs to take a page out of Tom Allen’s playbook and start creating some excitement around his team! 
I am hopeful of this new group. Hoping our basketball IQ is higher with this group. Hopefully our shooting will be better and more consistent from the outside. 
Hopefully our turnovers will be down. Just to name a few things I hope for. 
I like strong fundamental basketball!. 
 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Bob said:

Archie, needs to take a page out of Tom Allen’s playbook and start creating some excitement around his team! 
I am hopeful of this new group. Hoping our basketball IQ is higher with this group. Hopefully our shooting will be better and more consistent from the outside. 
Hopefully our turnovers will be down. Just to name a few things I hope for. 
I like strong fundamental basketball!. 
 

Well the thing is that Allen is very excitable but Archie is not.  If Archie would try not be like Allen then it would come off as fake and players would see right through it.

[FKIM01]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well the thing is that Allen is very excitable but Archie is not.  If Archie would try not be like Allen then it would come off as fake and players would see right through it.

Yeah...I love both these guys for IU, but I can't think of two more different personalities.

[OLDIUFAN]

I didn’t mean Archie needs to jump up and down. I meant Archie teams need to cause some fan excitement by playing better 

[IUFLA]

Archie has more of a smoldering intensity that I personally like, but may turn some kids off...

Be interesting to see him in a practice and how that works...Lombardi had that intensity and attention to detail, but was much more vocal and overt about it...RMK did too, but sometimes it bested him...

I do believe Archie has that attention to detail as well...I'll see him during games get rather animated when there's not an readily apparent error by one of our players...I can only think it's something position/scheme wise that he noticed was wrong...and he isn't good about covering it up...

 

 

[DWB]

I would rather see more energy on the floor, than Archie getting "excited". If we could instill McBob's energy into the team as a whole, we'd be very tough to beat, given the talent level of this team.

[IowaHoosierFan]

40 minutes ago, DWB said:

I would rather see more energy on the floor, than Archie getting "excited". If we could instill McBob's energy into the team as a whole, we'd be very tough to beat, given the talent level of this team.

McBob, man the kid has 7% of basketball talent but has 110% heart and grit. Hated him having to be on the floor due to injury and terrible play on our part but he gave it all every game and that is more than you see from most college players

[Hoosierhoopster]

11 hours ago, Bob said:

I didn’t mean Archie needs to jump up and down. I meant Archie teams need to cause some fan excitement by playing better 

Kind of a sweeping statement. CAM's teams have been better each year. You say hopefully TO's will be down. Last year the TO's were 12.6 on the season, that's not bad. Shooting obviously needs to improve, but now Smith is gone and the team is expected to run more of a 3-guard / actual wing look, which should produce better shooting, along with more of Hunter, who was shooting North of 40% from deep by year end. The team looks pretty good coming in, adding Lander. I think we'll see excitement.

[milehiiu]

Different strokes for different folks. Coach Miller's personality, IMHO does not lend him to be a Coach Allen type.  Nor does Coach Allen's personality lend himself to be a Coach Miller type.  I love both coaches for what they are.  And would never want either to change. 

Off.... my soap box..... and taking my 2cents home with me. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

I wish CAM would be T'd up a few more time during the season.  Let the refs have it at home when we're getting hosed.  Let them know this is our house and we won't accpet anything less than what other home courts get.  Other than that, i don't mind his demeanor.  Not his coaching ability i am still out to lunch on.  This year will be telling to me 

[5fouls]

We can dance around it all we want.  But, more kids (I'm not saying not all) will be drawn to a coach with Tom Allen's personality than they will with Archie Miller's personality. 

And, it could be (I said 'could') why the football team is rising to unprecedented heights and why the basketball team is still viewed to be a middle of the pack team in conference.   

[Inequality]

Oh bologna! We had a cheerleader. We now have a coach. With said coach we now have less snowflakes. Give me a break

[milehiiu]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

We can dance around it all we want.  But, more kids (I'm not saying not all) will be drawn to a coach with Tom Allen's personality than they will with Archie Miller's personality. 

And, it could be (I said 'could') why the football team is rising to unprecedented heights and why the basketball team is still viewed to be a middle of the pack team in conference.   

And again.  Each coach has their own way.  Last season....  some members on this very board mocked Coach Allen for his pre-game speeches to his team.  While I had no problem with his energy.

Look at this one more time.... and see how fired up the guys are. Nothing. 

Bruce Weber Fist Speech 

Coach Miller is his own guy.  At least he is not Bruce Weber.

[IUskim]

I agree with mile saying each coach has their own personality. Coach Allen you can tell is genuine in his personality as is Archie, but the only thing I would say about Archie is we don’t really have any idea how he is with his players behind closed doors. I think  we know how coach Allen is on and off the field. For all we know Archie could be a complete prankster and loose. 

[BobSaccamanno]

3 hours ago, 5fouls said:

We can dance around it all we want.  But, more kids (I'm not saying not all) will be drawn to a coach with Tom Allen's personality than they will with Archie Miller's personality. 

And, it could be (I said 'could') why the football team is rising to unprecedented heights and why the basketball team is still viewed to be a middle of the pack team in conference.   

Interesting take.  You may be right but so long as Archie clicks with the right type of guys, this can still work out.  We have recruited a much tougher team than what he inherited.  I’m talking about motor, mental toughness, ruggedness, etc.  

I have supported Allen for years.  Those of us on the football board could see this coming.  But the difference with Allen and Archie is that Allen is winning tough games.  Archie has yet to show that.  If anything, he hasn’t had answers.  It’s time for Archie to break through and win some battles.  He’s got some veterans; he has had time to develop his roster.  Time to win. Enough is enough.

I like Archie’s attitude but I’d like to see the team embody his attitude. Instead, we have been treated to the likes of Justin Smith sulking or some guard letting Purdue’s mediocre guards absolutely torch him.  Enough of all that.  If Archie’s team demonstrates his attitude, I think he will win.  I think he’d be well advised to get a “shooter” type coach who can help devise schemes.  Archie isn’t out scheming anybody.  If anything, he’s helpless when we start losing.  No answers.  I like Hunter but I’m not sure the whole staff has been up to snuff.  

The saddest thing is we need to really hope Archie works out.  There’s no evidence that we would hire a high end coach.   I wouldn’t at all be shocked by number 12 coming back because of his overlap with Dolson when he was a manager.  Let’s win consistently and play tough, sound basketball and avoid any more turnover.  Otherwise the Archie years will be a footnote that no one will remember.  

[IowaHoosierFan]

5 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Interesting take.  You may be right but so long as Archie clicks with the right type of guys, this can still work out.  We have recruited a much tougher team than what he inherited.  I’m talking about motor, mental toughness, ruggedness, etc.  

I have supported Allen for years.  Those of us on the football board could see this coming.  But the difference with Allen and Archie is that Allen is winning tough games.  Archie has yet to show that.  If anything, he hasn’t had answers.  It’s time for Archie to break through and win some battles.  He’s got some veterans, he has had time to develop his roster.  Time to win.

I like Archie’s attitude but I’d like to see the team embody his attitude. Instead, we have been treated to the likes of Justin Smith sulking or some guard letting Purdue’s mediocre guards absolutely torch him.  Enough of all that.  If Archie’s team demonstrates his attitude, I think he will win.  I think he’d be well advised to get a “shooter” type coach who can help devise schemes.  Archie isn’t out scheming anybody.  If anything, he’s helpless when we start losing.  No answers.  I like Hunter but I’m not sure the whole staff has been up to snuff.  

The saddest thing is we need to really hope Archie works out.  There’s no evidence that we would hire a high end coach.   I wouldn’t at all be shocked by number 12 coming back because of his overlap with the Dolson when he was a manager.  Let’s win consistently and play tough, sound basketball.  

I agree that if Archie doesn't work out, we're just going to hire another "hopeful" because we don't want to spend the money it will take to get one of the top contenders.  I am on the fence with CAM.  I like some things he does (Recruiting seems very solid to great) but on the other hand, he seems very rigid in his philosophy and doesn't adjust quickly or at all to changes in the game (our defense or starting line-ups as examples).  He is never going to be the cheerleader guy like Weber (whom i really like.  He is all in wherever he is).  He is very stoic and soft spoken.  He doesn't command a room when he is in it like many other coaches, but that doesn't mean he doesn't garner respect.  This year will be telling.  He has the tools in place.  Do we meet expectation and finish in the middle.  Does he squeeze that little extra and get in the top 5 or does he get all he can out of this talent and compete for the top 3, which would be a great year IMO.  Do the returning players shoot better, have less TOs, lead from the floor, or do we have the same kids from last year, just a year older (Rob Phin as my example, just hasn't grown year to year as a player).

I am looking forward for the season to start.  I want to see how much growth we have in TJD, Race, and Hunter.  And seeing what the freshman can bring to the floor.  Should be a good year for us to exceed expectation.

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I agree that if Archie doesn't work out, we're just going to hire another "hopeful" because we don't want to spend the money it will take to get one of the top contenders.  I am on the fence with CAM.  I like some things he does (Recruiting seems very solid to great) but on the other hand, he seems very rigid in his philosophy and doesn't adjust quickly or at all to changes in the game (our defense or starting line-ups as examples).  He is never going to be the cheerleader guy like Weber (whom i really like.  He is all in wherever he is).  He is very stoic and soft spoken.  He doesn't command a room when he is in it like many other coaches, but that doesn't mean he doesn't garner respect.  This year will be telling.  He has the tools in place.  Do we meet expectation and finish in the middle.  Does he squeeze that little extra and get in the top 5 or does he get all he can out of this talent and compete for the top 3, which would be a great year IMO.  Do the returning players shoot better, have less TOs, lead from the floor, or do we have the same kids from last year, just a year older (Rob Phin as my example, just hasn't grown year to year as a player).

I am looking forward for the season to start.  I want to see how much growth we have in TJD, Race, and Hunter.  And seeing what the freshman can bring to the floor.  Should be a good year for us to exceed expectation.

It wouldn't have anything to do with us not spending money since Archie is like the 9th highest paid coach in the country.  Why we would have to go with an up and coming coach is that is just the way it is today in coaching searches.  There are no top coaches leaving their current job to come to IU especially if it is shown that we will fire a coach after 3 or 4 years.  You take away the top coaches like coach K, Cal, Wright, Bennett, Few, Self and Izzo who would you think that we would get that is a better coach than Archie.  When we hired him the experts said he was the best candidate out there and was the top hire that year.  Look he was not my top choice out there but at least give him enough time to evaluate him

[milehiiu]

Yep. Coach Miller has not won ANY big games against B1G opponents while at IU. 

Archie Miller postgame: Michigan State: Jan. 23, 2020 

Indiana Basketball Shocks Michigan State With Late Rally, Wins 67-63 - Sports Illustrated Indiana Hoosiers News, Analysis and More

[addictedtoIU]

I get what OP was saying. Probably all of us started every season with hopes and dreams, but they were shattered throughout seasons. I know Archie is a better coach than the W-L records, but he and his team got to bring it and show some consistency throughout the season. Our concern shouldn't be whether we would make it to the tournament or not. Tournament appearance should be the bottom line every single season; maybe we miss tournament once or twice in a decade due rebuilding, but shouldn't be more than that. I wish this season would be a turning point and yes it could well be. We do have enough talent and experience, and on top of that, we have great comraderies. A coach can't and shouldn't ask for more to do some real damage. This is a very important season for the future of this program. 

[5fouls]

I don't have a problem with anyone that defends Archie.  But, the fact remains that Tom Allen has made IU football a winner.  That's IU FOOTBALL.  What he has accomplished to this date exceeds what Archie has.  Is that even a question in anyone's mind?  

[IU Scott]

I think the main difference with people on here is how they look at expectations.  Some look at it like this is Indiana and we have always been one of the top teams in the conference.  I know when I look at expectations I look at it year to year and how I think we will do in a certain year.  I look at our roster compared to the other teams and look to see how I think it will play out.  I don't put  my expectations on the history of a program but rather the actual team going into the season

[GaloisGroupe]

28 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I don't have a problem with anyone that defends Archie.  But, the fact remains that Tom Allen has made IU football a winner.  That's IU FOOTBALL.  What he has accomplished to this date exceeds what Archie has.  Is that even a question in anyone's mind?  

This is not to knock what Allen is doing at IU, which is AWESOME... but

Your statement that his accomplishments "exceed anything" that Archie has done is via an IU football to IU basketball conversion scale. Prior to this season (approximating across divisions - hastily by hand), IU football finished 11th, 12th, and 7th in B1G play in 2017, 2018, and 2019. 

And this year looks REALLY promising... but, if we ignore the names on the jerseys (PSU, RU, MU, MSU) and preseason ranking we have so far succeeded in beating probably the 4 worst teams in the B1G right now... 

AGAIN, clearly an historic and exciting season for IU and Coach Allen, but the tough part of our schedule is yet to come... starting on Saturday :)!

This is also Archie's fourth season, so we will see how the dust settles for both.

[BobSaccamanno]

26 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I don't have a problem with anyone that defends Archie.  But, the fact remains that Tom Allen has made IU football a winner.  That's IU FOOTBALL.  What he has accomplished to this date exceeds what Archie has.  Is that even a question in anyone's mind?  

I wonder which program has the higher average rating for a recruit?  I think it’s an overrated concept.  Michigan gets top ten classes and our players are considerably better than theirs.  But just for humoring ourselves, on paper, who has recruited better?

Without looking, I’d imagine it’s basketball and not even a contest.   Actually winning games is the real test, not recruiting.  Go toe to toe with a tough team and smack them in the mouth.  And then do it again.  Lose a couple?  Stay up all night and fix it.   Or have a game plan where their jaws drop as if to say what just happened here.  Kind of like UNLV in ‘87.  Or the ‘89 when the team looked dismal, some tweaks were made, and we started kicking people around to win the conference title in a a very tough conference year.   

[BobSaccamanno]

5 minutes ago, GaloisGroupe said:

This is not to knock what Allen is doing at IU, which is AWESOME... but

Your statement that his accomplishments "exceed anything" that Archie has done is via an IU football to IU basketball conversion scale. Prior to this season (approximating across divisions - hastily by hand), IU football finished 11th, 12th, and 7th in B1G play in 2017, 2018, and 2019. 

And this year looks REALLY promising... but, if we ignore the names on the jerseys (PSU, RU, MU, MSU) and preseason ranking we have so far succeeded in beating probably the 4 worst teams in the B1G right now... 

AGAIN, clearly an historic and exciting season for IU and Coach Allen, but the tough part of our schedule is yet to come... starting on Saturday :)!

This is also Archie's fourth season, so we will see how the dust settles for both.

The difference is Archie hasn’t had the chops to consistently beat tough teams.  He’s gotten a couple but no one here will argue it’s been nearly enough.  That 12 of 13 streak was alarming.  Bob Knight goes 6-7 in that stretch at worst and people would be calling for his head.  Archie was overwhelmed and couldn’t do it despite having Langford and Morgan.  

Meanwhile, Allen has some good wins under his belt.  

[GaloisGroupe]

26 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The difference is Archie hasn’t had the chops to consistently beat tough teams.  He’s gotten a couple but no one here will argue it’s been nearly enough.  That 12 of 13 streak was alarming.  Bob Knight goes 6-7 in that stretch at worst and people would be calling for his head.  Archie was overwhelmed and couldn’t do it despite having Langford and Morgan.  

Meanwhile, Allen has some good wins under his belt.  

Again, I think "good wins" is scaled for IU football vs. IU basketball. I looked and I do not think that our football team beat a single ranked team in 2017-2019. In 2017 and 2018 we closed the seasons 2-5 and 1-6 respectively... better than a 1-12 streak, but not otherworldly better.

We have the two wins against ranked teams this year, but I have seen PSU and Michigan against other teams and they are terrible. 

NB: I am not criticizing Allen AT ALL; I am extremely excited by how well IU is playing this year and where I think they are going... But this is his fourth season and his first three seasons are similar to CAM's (especially if we had made it into the tournament last year). I am saying that because he was coaching IU football NOT IU basketball, Coach Allen was given more time to put his team together.

Addition: If we beat OSU this weekend, then the bar will be really set high for CAM and our basketball team this year!