Penn State Post-Game Thread

[dgambill]

Agreed Archie deserves credit for his players improvement. I think what has been baffling is that Archie being a point guard hasn’t gotten more out of Rob. We get glimpses but not sure what is holding him back. I know he is undersized but he can still get into the teeth of a defense and break it down if he wants. I understand Al is about as good as Al will ever be. Great shooter with his feet set and time to shoot but outside that..let’s be real Al is just not an athlete nor a player that is capable of taking his man one on one. Just not explosive. Rob is perplexing. No he doesn’t have the athleticism of Lander but he is a smart ball player and he is a solid shooter....but so much is between his ears.

[BobSaccamanno]

I don’t agree that player development is just left to the individual.  There is a lot of guidance provided by coaches.  Of course the player and his work ethic is central. But the coaches implement plans, player by player.  

Recruits cite player development at a high frequency when selecting a program. 

[IUFLA]

15 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I don’t agree that player development is just left to the individual.  There is a lot of guidance provided by coaches.  Of course the player and his work ethic is central. But the coaches implement plans, player by player.  

Recruits cite player development at a high frequency when selecting a program. 

Of course the coach and the staff work with players and give them things to work on...

But if the player doesn't put in the work, they aren't going to reach their potential...

The player isn't going to be great unless he puts in the work, regardless what the coaches do...

[BobSaccamanno]

Yes the players do the work.  Heart of a lion is critical.  But we can’t dismiss the plan put in place by the staff which is huge.  The player wouldn’t know what to do without a plan and strategy.  They are very young and need coaches to give them a plan and goals, work with them, teach them, give them drills, etc.  It’s an intensive teaching environment in the off-season.

It is true we can’t know what the staff is doing in player development because it isn’t public.  But we will know in time because the results will speak for themselves. Crean for all faults can point to a number of good examples.  With Archie the data is too small to know one way or another.  Franklin is a great example.  Race is coming along nicely. 

[KoB2011]

6 hours ago, dgambill said:

Agreed Archie deserves credit for his players improvement. I think what has been baffling is that Archie being a point guard hasn’t gotten more out of Rob. We get glimpses but not sure what is holding him back. I know he is undersized but he can still get into the teeth of a defense and break it down if he wants. I understand Al is about as good as Al will ever be. Great shooter with his feet set and time to shoot but outside that..let’s be real Al is just not an athlete nor a player that is capable of taking his man one on one. Just not explosive. Rob is perplexing. No he doesn’t have the athleticism of Lander but he is a smart ball player and he is a solid shooter....but so much is between his ears.

Speaking of between his ears.... could it be the concussion? IMO, he hasn't ever been the same player since that happened. 

[KoB2011]

4 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Yes the players do the work.  Heart of a lion is critical.  But we can’t dismiss the plan put in place by the staff which is huge.  The player wouldn’t know what to do without a plan and strategy.  They are very young and need coaches to give them a plan and goals, work with them, teach them, give them drills, etc.  It’s an intensive teaching environment in the off-season.

It is true we can’t know what the staff is doing in player development because it isn’t public.  But we will know in time because the results will speak for themselves. Crean for all faults can point to a number of good examples.  With Archie the data is too small to know one way or another.  Franklin is a great example.  Race is coming along nicely. 

TJD has clearly taken a step, too. While it's easy to ignore the improvement of elite recruits, earlier in this thread @BGleas asked about ranking bigs from the past decade. While I had TJD toward the bottom of the list from the 4 noteworthy big, I would put him at the top in terms of improvement from Year 1 to Year 2 (I just think Bryant and Zeller were that much better coming in)

[dgambill]

10 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Speaking of between his ears.... could it be the concussion? IMO, he hasn't ever been the same player since that happened. 

Could be scared to get hurt...but something tells me it’s probably not even basketball related.

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

Could be scared to get hurt...but something tells me it’s probably not even basketball related.

I don't mean scared to get hurt, but that could be it, I just am talking about how concussions change the way the brain works. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

12 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

TJD has clearly taken a step, too. While it's easy to ignore the improvement of elite recruits, earlier in this thread @BGleas asked about ranking bigs from the past decade. While I had TJD toward the bottom of the list from the 4 noteworthy big, I would put him at the top in terms of improvement from Year 1 to Year 2 (I just think Bryant and Zeller were that much better coming in)

I agree that he is a better scorer.  But he is the focus of the offense.  He is shooting more but at a lower percentage.  He still doesn't have a right hand.  He still can't shoot the mid range or deep ball.  He still goes up soft and doesn't finish well through contact.  With that being said, he has improved his FT% quite a bit compared to last year. and is relative the same on Rebounds, assists, blocks and steals.  He is turning the ball over more but i think that has to do more with his number of touches than anything.  His growth everyone is talking about is based solely on his scoring.  Now there is plenty of time for these numbers to go up but going into a killer B!G schedule doesn't lend itself to that.  Stats below are Per Game Averages.  10 games v 32 games does mean he has a chance to improve or decrease any of these averages.

I can't imagine how bad we would be without TJD on the floor.  I love the kid and he does look to have become a better player from last year to this year.  

And before i get blasted and i know i will, it doesn't show his defensive numbers.  It doesn't show how he changes the game.  It doesn't show that he gets double and triple teamed.  It doesn't show all the intangibles.  I agree wholeheartedly.  And from watching him, you know he is a better player than last year.

But since his offensive are all pretty similar except free throw shooting, i would say he didn't have a huge jump in skillset.  I think our offense has just focused more on getting him the ball and playing through the post.

I just don't think CAM is a good offensive coach and he doesn't help players grow on the offense.

But i give fill 100% credit where credit is do.  We have increased Defensive ability for all of the starters.  I have seen a huge jump from year 1 to year 4 on the defensive end.  

Obviously these are just my opinions based on some very basic metrics and my eye test.  I am not a coach, player or ex player of basketball.  Just someone who has watched IU since the early 80's

 

 

 

[bluegrassIU]

Trace is better

Armaan significantly better

Race is better.

As for TJD only scoring more because he is more of a focus of the offense?

He is also more of a focus of the other teams gameplan and scouting. Every team starts with "double TJD immediately "

So for percentages to be the same, and totals increased.....he has had to improve. 

That works both ways.

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, bluegrassIU said:

Trace is better

Armaan significantly better

Race is better.

As for TJD only scoring more because he is more of a focus of the offense?

He is also more of a focus of the other teams gameplan and scouting. Every team starts with "double TJD immediately "

So for percentages to be the same, and totals increased.....he has had to improve. 

That works both ways.

I specifically stated that the metrics don't show that he is double and triple teamed. And he is scoring more on a lower scoring percentage.  Volume.  FT% is way up, which is awesome.  He has really improved there and for a big man that is great.  But still doesn't shoot with his right hand. No mid range or long range to stretch the defense.

Imagine if he had a good 15' shot.  High Screen, roll to the elbow, shoot or pump and drive.  Would completely change how they could guard or run their defense.

Just my opinion.  Means absolutely nothing to anyone. Go Hoosiers

[bluegrassIU]

1 minute ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I specifically stated that the metrics don't show that he is double and triple teamed. And he is scoring more on a lower scoring percentage.  Volume.  FT% is way up, which is awesome.  He has really improved there and for a big man that is great.  But still doesn't shoot with his right hand. No mid range or long range to stretch the defense.

Imagine if he had a good 15' shot.  High Screen, roll to the elbow, shoot or pump and drive.  Would completely change how they could guard or run their defense.

Just my opinion.  Means absolutely nothing to anyone. Go Hoosiers

I think we agree. He has improved, but still has room to grow exponentially. 

I think that's fair to say.

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 minute ago, bluegrassIU said:

I think we agree. He has improved, but still has room to grow exponentially. 

I think that's fair to say.

Completely.  He hasn't nearly reached his ceiling.