It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

[BADGERVOL]

32 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said:

It’s not just Indiana though.  UK did it to Tubby, Billy, and he’ll do it to Cal. Duke won’t be any different when K retires.  UNC did it with Doherty. Lots of passionate (crazy lunatics) fan bases do it.  We just happen to be in a real bad stretch of hiring coaches.

There’s literally nothing about IU and their fans that is any more or less over the top then at least a couple dozen but time programs in basketball abs football. 

[IU Scott]

53 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Honestly though......Just how tough is it being in Archie’s shoes right now? That’s why he’s paid big money, but he’s not “earnin’ his keep”. He is human, but the pressure has to be astronomical!!!!! 

I know top coaches make huge money but I sometimes wonder why you would want to get into coaching at this level.  It is pretty much a no win situation because there will be fans in every fan base that no matter how much you win it is not enough.  For some it is championship or bust and won't be happy with any coach if they don't produce championships.

[IU Scott]

43 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Sometimes a school that has a lot of an appeal just is not a good fit.  Archie probably has thoughts about how things would be if he never left Dayton.

I think that, in the future, we will see more coaches take the Mark Few route to success.  At some point, especially if Few can prove you can win it all while not having to knock heads game in and game out with the big boys, other coaches at schools similar to Gonzaga will think 'I don't have to go to big name school to achieve the ultimate career success.  I got all I need right here.'

 

totally agree with that point and coaches like McKillop and Byrd could have moved on to bigger schools but never did.

[Seeking6]

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I think all of us understand (at least I do) that there are different levels of donors.  There may only be 10 donors that matter, but if you can get 5-6 of those donors to pony up the money to pay the buyout, that's money that they can afford to part with if having a premiere basketball team is important to them.  

With all the respect in the world because of your posting history. I'll say this. I know several $300k a year families that donate about $2500 a year besides buying tickets.

The money you refer is Cook $. He's the guy that messengered the $750k buyout for Sampson....he's 1 of about 8-9 to have enough juice to actually influence a program.

No offense at all. Just saying this whole donor thing really gets overblown. The university receives $50M a year from TV. You think they give a rats a-- about a dude from Indy that donates $50k per year in cash?? Just doesn't happen.

[IU Scott]

42 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Exactly. What if NC State, or Pittsburgh opened up.  Both would have built in appeal to Archie.  They are both Power 5 schools that have some success in their history, but a middle of the pack conference finish isn't the end of the world either.  

I could see Pitt firing Capel since he is losing top players to transfers

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Besides John Beilein? I'd have to go into google mode....but that one seems appropriate. 

Would be a good one except it’s not fitting at all. 
 

He made the tourney his second year and he finished 4th in conference his 4th year. And I don’t think he was losing his best player after his 4th year. 
 

So other than it’s a totally different circumstance. He’s a great example 

[John S]

1 hour ago, Artesian_86 said:

All seriousness aside, I sure would hate to be Coach Miller poking my head around Bloomington during all of this. I’m sure he’s a ghost....What a tough time for his daughter and wife to be a part of. I feel for them. 

He’s a big boy.  Or, should be after taking this job and the big bucks.   Its part of the deal.   

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

With all the respect in the world because of your posting history. I'll say this. I know several $300k a year families that donate about $2500 a year besides buying tickets.

The money you refer is Cook $. He's the guy that messengered the $750k buyout for Sampson....he's 1 of about 8-9 to have enough juice to actually influence a program.

No offense at all. Just saying this whole donor thing really gets overblown. The university receives $50M a year from TV. You think they give a rats a-- about a dude from Indy that donates $50k per year in cash?? Just doesn't happen.

And......I was referring to the Cooks, , Skjodts, Cubans, etc.  

Re-read what I said.  

[John S]

1 hour ago, Artesian_86 said:

Honestly though......Just how tough is it being in Archie’s shoes right now? That’s why he’s paid big money, but he’s not “earnin’ his keep”. He is human, but the pressure has to be astronomical!!!!! 

If hes so sensitive and a good dude, maybe he should admit his failure and workout an exit with his employer now.  

[IU Scott]

19 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

And happens to be one of the very few blue bloods (if we can call ourselves that anymore) that has eaten up 4.2 coaches in under 2 decades. That's why I caution people on wanting a new shiny penny. Unless it's an absolute HR hire...might be best to stay the course. Hiring a guy can bring hope...but it also might be a waste for the next 3-4 years where as Archie could stabilize this thing by next year.

See it happen all day/year long with emotional company leaders. If the hire isn't of the home run type...I say stay the course for another year.

PS gang. There are about 10 donors who actually matter. For the I send $5k a year crowd like some do...it takes thousands of those to add up to the 1. This whole donor conversation is nonsense. 

My question would be if we bring him back for a 5th year then what does he have to do next year to keep his job.  After next year you will have to extend him or fire him..  If you don't think he can meet that expectation for next year what good would it be to bring him back.  To me if you bring him back next year then it should be for good because firing him next year will put us back even farther.

[Seeking6]

7 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

And......I was referring to the Cooks, , Skjodts, Cubans, etc.  

Re-read what I said.  

if having a premiere basketball team is important to them.  

I think you answered the question.

[IU Scott]

Just now, Seeking6 said:

if having a premiere basketball team is important to them.  

I think you answered the question.

Well they have donated a lot of money already to the athletic department so I would think they do care.

[5fouls]

Just now, Seeking6 said:

if having a premiere basketball team is important to them.  

I think you answered the question.

Well, the Cook family has historically felt that way.  And, the Skjodts didn't put their name on the arena for this.  And, yeah, I have no idea if Cuban has ever shown an interest in the program or not.  But, if Dolson called him with a sound plan to hire the right coach, then I have to think Cuban would listen, and there's a good chance he would come through.   

[IU Scott]

Just now, 5fouls said:

Well, the Cook family has historically felt that way.  And, the Skjodts didn't put their name on the arena for this.  And, yeah, I have no idea if Cuban has ever shown an interest in the program or not.  But, if Dolson called him with a sound plan to hire the right coach, then I have to think Cuban would listen, and there's a good chance he would come through.   

I thought he said that he won't donate solely to the athletic department because he hates the NCAA.  He did get the media center built or whatever it is called.

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I thought he said that he won't donate solely to the athletic department because he hates the NCAA.  He did get the media center built or whatever it is called.

Exactamundo. Cuban doesn't donate directly. Big misconception about people with $. They have money because they save. 

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I thought he said that he won't donate solely to the athletic department because he hates the NCAA.  He did get the media center built or whatever it is called.

I find it hard to believe that someone who loves basketball as much as he does, an owner of an NBA team no less, would decline to help out if hos alma mater desperately needed it.  He knows how important the basketball team is to the University, and I'm sure he would like to see it be successful.  

[Seeking6]

5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Well, the Cook family has historically felt that way.  And, the Skjodts didn't put their name on the arena for this.  And, yeah, I have no idea if Cuban has ever shown an interest in the program or not.  But, if Dolson called him with a sound plan to hire the right coach, then I have to think Cuban would listen, and there's a good chance he would come through.   

Papa did for sure...and I'll also add that EW Kelley and his heirs won't ever give another dime to IU again. Just my two cents. Fun talk for sure.

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

Exactamundo. Cuban doesn't donate directly. Big misconception about people with $. They have money because they save. 

There's a difference in randomly donating and stepping up if you are specifically asked to help.  

[tdhoosier]

Just now, 5fouls said:

I find it hard to believe that someone who loves basketball as much as he does, an owner of an NBA team no less, would decline to help out if hos alma mater desperately needed it.  He knows how important the basketball team is to the University, and I'm sure he would like to see it be successful.  

It’s not about the his love for the University because he donates in other ways. He said that he said something along the lines that he will never donate to a collegiate athletic program as long as they’re affiliated with the NCAA. 

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, tdhoosier said:

It’s not about the his love for the University because he donates in other ways. He said that he said something along the lines that he will never donate to a collegiate athletic program as long as they’re affiliated with the NCAA. 

Okay.  How about this.

"Mark, we could really use about $3 million for the library."

A week later.

"Ooh....looky, we have a $3 million dollar surplus in the library fund.  let's re-distribute that to athletics."

 

Yes.  I'm kidding.

I still think if IU had a sound plan to hire a game-changing coach, Cuban would not only listen, but come through.  People say things one day, but change their minds as circumstances change around them,  Heck, I swore off marriage after the 2nd divorce.  We know how that worked out.   

[mrflynn03]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yeah if I hadn’t had a kid I would have been ecstatic I hated that job. And it only took me 5 weeks to find a better job. But was super stressful.  

Good to hear you got a better job. Feels good man. I'm really enjoying my new one. 

[IUCrazy2]

1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

Papa did for sure...and I'll also add that EW Kelley and his heirs won't ever give another dime to IU again. Just my two cents. Fun talk for sure.

Mr. Kelley passed away almost 20 years ago, so that makes sense that he wouldn't.  Is there a story there about the University pissing the family off?

Look, I don't think the school can run to the big donors all the time.  And the big donors probably have a little bit of a question, which is completely fair IMO, as to what the F the University is doing that they have to keep coming to them to bail the school out for bad hires and bad contracts.

I also agree that those top 5 or 10 donors have more monetary pull on their own then the little donors do.  However, where the little donors do have pull is in numbers.  The school still cares about optics.  They like the veneer of being a big time program.  Superficiality is what they are about.  So where we do matter is not our money, but it is our lack of showing up.  Assembly Hall filled with fans booing the team or not filled at all, hurts that superficial rah-rah that the University wants.

I stopped entertaining donating to the school a long time ago.  Even to the point of withdrawing the small amount for an Indiana branded license plate.  I am only attached to the school anymore based on my time there and somewhat through the sports teams.  I hate the schools politics for the most part.  I think the administration is dumb, is a poor steward of the money they do receive, are responsible in their own way for the bloated cost of an IU education, and have done zero to raise the academic standing of the school.  So I don't give.  And yeah, I don't matter and those big donors make up for me.  But if you get enough people growing up and acting like me...and encouraging their kids that in many instances that time at IU is not worth the debt, that will add up.

And killing the one major thing that keeps alumni attached to a school because the people that run the school are short sighted idiots could look pretty dumb in 15 to 20 years.  There is an education bubble and today's kids are learning how to learn through a screen.  Do the math. 

[addictedtoIU]

5 hours ago, Artesian_86 said:

All seriousness aside, I sure would hate to be Coach Miller poking my head around Bloomington during all of this. I’m sure he’s a ghost....What a tough time for his daughter and wife to be a part of. I feel for them. 

Good thing his daughter probably doesn't need to go to school because of COVID. Whenever they would go out for grocery shopping, they would use big facial masks, baseball caps, and sunglasses to cover. 

[addictedtoIU]

5 hours ago, Parakeet Jones said:

If he gets a 5th year, which is what I think ends up happening, how many pages will this thread get to?

Remember how many threads and pages we had in Crean's last days at IU? I forgot, but we'd probably see similar things. 

[NCHoosier32]

9 hours ago, IUwins0708 said:

Attacking is a strange word.  If criticism is attacking then not many aren’t guilty.  I agree, families need to be left alone.  Criticism isn’t leaving sports anytime soon.

i agree with you here.  i don't see the point in personal attacks.  personally i would say something like our guards aren't good enough.  or we don't have a lot of talent.  or i don't understand why this guy starts and plays so many minutes.  coaching - i might say, i don't think he's our guy.  or why doesn't he take this guy out more, etc.  some say things like my dog could outcoach him or he's short or whatever.  there's a big difference and i don't see the point in the over the top personal stuff.