It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

[IUFLA]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Lol

It walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck 

So leave it to an Archie supporters to say it’s Phoenix waiting to rise. 
 

Archie supporters are seriously trying to claim guys are benched for poor performance this is sad it’s so desperate 

You said you have a 4 year old (and being a parent to 3 grown women, it was my favorite job ever) and sincere congratulations on that...

But how would you feel about someone posting something unsubstantiated about your child?

 

[IUCrazy2]

If he loses the next two games, I would be on the phone to the alumni and ask how much they want to pony up to offer Stevens.  I think that is the longest of long shots but I tell them that we need Coach K kind of money for that.  I am willing to shoot the shot, but I want a real offer.

Then, if that fails (which I think it would, I don't believe he wants to leave the NBA but I think you have to make that call with a big offer) I think I call Matta.   If we don't make the tournament I wouldn't accept an NIT invite.  I want to get this over with and be able to talk to people at the NCAA tournament.  All those coaches and players are going to be driving distance from Bloomington for a month.

 

[IU Scott]

54 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Lol

It walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck 

So leave it to an Archie supporters to say it’s Phoenix waiting to rise. 
 

Archie supporters are seriously trying to claim guys are benched for poor performance this is sad it’s so desperate 

If it was a failed drug test he would have been out 3 games

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

If it was a failed drug test he would have been out 3 games

The point is he isn’t holding them accountable for playing like ****

[BADGERVOL]

45 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

If he loses the next two games, I would be on the phone to the alumni and ask how much they want to pony up to offer Stevens.  I think that is the longest of long shots but I tell them that we need Coach K kind of money for that.  I am willing to shoot the shot, but I want a real offer.

Then, if that fails (which I think it would, I don't believe he wants to leave the NBA but I think you have to make that call with a big offer) I think I call Matta.   If we don't make the tournament I wouldn't accept an NIT invite.  I want to get this over with and be able to talk to people at the NCAA tournament.  All those coaches and players are going to be driving distance from Bloomington for a month.

 

I tell ya...someone higher than AD needs to take the FRICKEN MIC and tell the fanbase that we aren’t going to stay here anymore. Say SOMETHING or else the fanbase needs to get organized more for the people higher up.

Thats what I’ve liked about UT football. The president and chancellor have pressers now because they know the fanbase is at THEIR door step. It isn’t a coach or AD issues at Tennessee anymore.

Our fans need to rattle cages.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

I tell ya...someone higher than AD needs to take the FRICKEN MIC and tell the fanbase that we aren’t going to stay here anymore. Say SOMETHING or else the fanbase needs to get organized more for the people higher up.

Thats what I’ve liked about UT football. The president and chancellor have pressers now because they know the fanbase is at THEIR door step. It isn’t a coach or AD issues at Tennessee anymore.

Our fans need to rattle cages.

So you should start by e-mailing each person on the BOT and the AD and the president.  i have e-mailed the AD but no one else because it probably won't influence their decision. 

[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

You said you have a 4 year old (and being a parent to 3 grown women, it was my favorite job ever) and sincere congratulations on that...

But how would you feel about someone posting something unsubstantiated about your child?

 

I thought it had been confirmed so I do apologize.  
 

Idk about something being posted about my kid but don’t pretend you don’t do the same thing when you continue to blame every single player rather than casting the problems on the Archie. 
 

You like all the other Archie supporters. Accuse the players of being lazy and poor teammates. People reveled as the problem children of Forrester, Smith, Devonte and Damezi were successfully ran off.  Rather than hold Archie accountable. 
 

It’s ok to call the crappy humans and terrible teammates I guess in your eyes but wrong to get the reason they were suspended wrong. 

[BADGERVOL]

11 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So you should start by e-mailing each person on the BOT and the AD and the president.  i have e-mailed the AD but no one else because it probably won't influence their decision. 

Can you start a thread with all the emails and the titles of each position? If all of us have one email each...I have two emails I can work from.

You’d be surprised what that can do only because they associate people calling and emailing with a certain percent of the base. A small fraction actually make contact so if they gets hundreds instead of dozens they assume things like “for every one of these emails there is likely hundreds and hundreds or thousands more per email who are this upset or more.”

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Can you start a thread with all the emails and the titles of each position? If all of us have one email each...I have two emails I can work from.

You’d be surprised what that can do only because they associate people calling and emailing with a certain percent of the base. A small fraction actually make contact so if they gets hundreds instead of dozens they assume things like “for every one of these emails there is likely hundreds and hundreds or thousands more per email who are this upset or more.”

I found the AD email under the athletic depart website

[IUFLA]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I thought it had been confirmed so I do apologize.  
 

Idk about something being posted about my kid but don’t pretend you don’t do the same thing when you continue to blame every single player rather than casting the problems on the Archie. 
 

You like all the other Archie supporters. Accuse the players of being lazy and poor teammates. People reveled as the problem children of Forrester, Smith, Devonte and Damezi were successfully ran off.  Rather than hold Archie accountable. 
 

It’s ok to call the crappy humans and terrible teammates I guess in your eyes but wrong to get the reason they were suspended wrong. 

I think my only criticism of a player or players were when Trayce was not giving a good effort on a closeout early in the OSU game...and I've always said Al Durham is not a starting guard on a B1G championship contender...

Our players are not above criticism of their games...it's part of playing in a big time program...but getting frustrated because Al dribbled one off his foot and posting about it is a far cry from saying he flunked a drug test with no real proof, eh?

And to be honest I've posted that Devonte and Justin Smith were not leaders and didn't seem to be the best teammates...never had any problem with Jake or Damezi...

If I see a player who I think is dirty, like Nebraska's Teddy Allen, I'll say so...

But other than that, I don't fit your mold of Archie supporters...

 

 

[Cbp4IU]

Not that it will happen but... IF Brad Stevens were to get fired this or next season.... Will Dolson be pressured to make the move. If he were to get fired this off season... And if the interest were there.... You have to go for it. That would be our Nick Saban. I’m sure the money would be there to get him. 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

I think my only criticism of a player or players were when Trayce was not giving a good effort on a closeout early in the OSU game...and I've always said Al Durham is not a starting guard on a B1G championship contender...

Our players are not above criticism of their games...it's part of playing in a big time program...but getting frustrated because Al dribbled one off his foot and posting about it is a far cry from saying he flunked a drug test with no real proof, eh?

And to be honest I've posted that Devonte and Justin Smith were not leaders and didn't seem to be the best teammates...never had any problem with Jake or Damezi...

If I see a player who I think is dirty, like Nebraska's Teddy Allen, I'll say so...

But other than that, I don't fit your mold of Archie supporters...

 

 

There's only about three of us left that fall into the "Archie supporter" category so I'm pretty curious which of us he is talking about. 

And to be clear, I'm actually fine with moving on if the next few weeks go poorly. But if we move on, we better damn well knock it out of the park, otherwise we are better off keeping Archie. 

[IUCrazy2]

36 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

There's only about three of us left that fall into the "Archie supporter" category so I'm pretty curious which of us he is talking about. 

And to be clear, I'm actually fine with moving on if the next few weeks go poorly. But if we move on, we better damn well knock it out of the park, otherwise we are better off keeping Archie. 

Are we better off though?  I'm not convinced that staying the course right now is better than getting someone who looks mediocre at the moment.  That Tom Brew article for SI pointed out some things that were not at the forefront of my thought process.  The lack of production from the Freshmen in comparison to what is going on in West Lafayette being a big one.  I am not on board the "Matt Painter is a great coach" train.  I think the guy's overall package has been pedestrian.  The fact that he is absolutely eating Miller's lunch is a major demerit to me.  What's the point of getting older if the guys don't do better?

I know some will point to Armaan and keep saying, "see...a guy got better" but the facts laid out in that article are just brutal.  Lander continuing to airball 3 pointers while only making 1 2 pt field goal all year is an abomination.   That is on Lander's coach.  Leal can shoot a bit and he gets yanked after 1 mistake yesterday while RP and AD suck (butt) every other game and no repercussions.  Be honest, if you had a kid that was a HS Jr or Sr and he was kind of a borderline player.  May be good enough to develop into a pro player with the right coaching, would you send him to Miller?  I wouldn't.  Not anymore.  And that is a big reason why I am done with Miller.  We have been in neutral in every facet of the game since he got here.  "But the defense is better Crazy."  No...it isn't.  Look at our defensive stats in the BIG this year.  There has not been much development in this program beyond "well that guy has a bit more experience now."  There were people calling out that TJD was scoring his points without using his right hand at all in the post yesterday.  Galloway started out well and has regressed.  Leal and Geronimo barely make it off the bench.  Armaan looks better but most guys usually do make a jump as a sophomore.

He has to go.  I have been feeling negative about him for awhile now but was still on the fence about his tenure here.  I am off the fence now.  Miller is not the guy.  We need to remove him at the end of the year.  You strike when the media is writing stories like this to support removing him.  Why?  Because they are fickle.  If you keep him around and he limps into the tournament next year, the narrative completely changes.  Then they feel you set a standard and the guy finally got you to the tournament, why you firing him now?  Then you have to extend.  Before you know it, a guy you should have fired after year 4 has made it to year 8 and 9 and you have sniffed the tournament in 2 of those 9 years.

That is what Indiana does.  

So in order to avoid what I think is inevitable.  I am done.  I don't want to waste another 4 or 5 years throwing good money after bad knowing the outcome.  Miller is not getting it done and he is too damn bull headed to change his ways.  So he's gotta go.

[IU Scott]

Just found something that is kind of ironic.  Going through YouTube and found something from 2 years ago from the DD show.  The headline is what is wrong with IU basketball and the sad thing is that you can have the same title 2 years later

[BADGERVOL]

Idk folks I’d gladly take a nee chance on a mid major guy with a resume like Archie’s. Probably a 50/50 shot they pan out. I’d rather give four years to someone next then stay with a guy I’m 95% sure won’t cut it for another 1-2. 
 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Are we better off though?  I'm not convinced that staying the course right now is better than getting someone who looks mediocre at the moment.  That Tom Brew article for SI pointed out some things that were not at the forefront of my thought process.  The lack of production from the Freshmen in comparison to what is going on in West Lafayette being a big one.  I am not on board the "Matt Painter is a great coach" train.  I think the guy's overall package has been pedestrian.  The fact that he is absolutely eating Miller's lunch is a major demerit to me.  What's the point of getting older if the guys don't do better?

I know some will point to Armaan and keep saying, "see...a guy got better" but the facts laid out in that article are just brutal.  Lander continuing to airball 3 pointers while only making 1 2 pt field goal all year is an abomination.   That is on Lander's coach.  Leal can shoot a bit and he gets yanked after 1 mistake yesterday while RP and AD suck (butt) every other game and no repercussions.  Be honest, if you had a kid that was a HS Jr or Sr and he was kind of a borderline player.  May be good enough to develop into a pro player with the right coaching, would you send him to Miller?  I wouldn't.  Not anymore.  And that is a big reason why I am done with Miller.  We have been in neutral in every facet of the game since he got here.  "But the defense is better Crazy."  No...it isn't.  Look at our defensive stats in the BIG this year.  There has not been much development in this program beyond "well that guy has a bit more experience now."  There were people calling out that TJD was scoring his points without using his right hand at all in the post yesterday.  Galloway started out well and has regressed.  Leal and Geronimo barely make it off the bench.  Armaan looks better but most guys usually do make a jump as a sophomore.

He has to go.  I have been feeling negative about him for awhile now but was still on the fence about his tenure here.  I am off the fence now.  Miller is not the guy.  We need to remove him at the end of the year.  You strike when the media is writing stories like this to support removing him.  Why?  Because they are fickle.  If you keep him around and he limps into the tournament next year, the narrative completely changes.  Then they feel you set a standard and the guy finally got you to the tournament, why you firing him now?  Then you have to extend.  Before you know it, a guy you should have fired after year 4 has made it to year 8 and 9 and you have sniffed the tournament in 2 of those 9 years.

That is what Indiana does.  

So in order to avoid what I think is inevitable.  I am done.  I don't want to waste another 4 or 5 years throwing good money after bad knowing the outcome.  Miller is not getting it done and he is too damn bull headed to change his ways.  So he's gotta go.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying necessarily, although I didn't find the article to be nearly as spot on as some seem to have. 

But I do think if we make a move we better have a damn near sure thing. Is it possible we can have one of those guys this year? Maybe. Is it more likely we have one next year? I personally think so. 

[KDB]

I really like Archie. I think he’s a good coach.  I’m rooting for him. I think he should get a year 5.

That said, as much as I like him, you have to start winning at some point. If you can’t do it in the first five years at Indiana, you’re not gonna last. 

I really hope it clicks next season and we can get excited about the future of the program with Archie at the helm. If not, it’s gonna be time to move on.. and if that happens, they HAVE to get that hire right.

[iuthruandthru]

Just gonna drop this here:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thebiglead.com/posts/celtics-fans-want-brad-stevens-fired-after-latest-meltdown-01ez3fvjxhgt/amp

[KoB2011]

40 minutes ago, iuthruandthru said:

Just gonna drop this here:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thebiglead.com/posts/celtics-fans-want-brad-stevens-fired-after-latest-meltdown-01ez3fvjxhgt/amp

To be completely fair that was written by an IU guy.... 

[Feathery]

2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

To be completely fair that was written by an IU guy.... 

maybe Ryan can get the train rolling to get Stevens to IU. Lol

[13th&Jackson]

5 hours ago, iuthruandthru said:

Just gonna drop this here:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thebiglead.com/posts/celtics-fans-want-brad-stevens-fired-after-latest-meltdown-01ez3fvjxhgt/amp

It’s sad that “journalism” today is posting a bunch of tweets from random goofballs and then adding a bit of commentary 

[tdhoosier]

1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

It’s sad that “journalism” today is posting a bunch of tweets from random goofballs and then adding a bit of commentary 

I really like Ryan Philips too, but I too can’t stand articles that treat random people on Twitter as some kind of meaningful ‘sources’. It’s just to push trash content for clicks. It’s a click bait economy and we’re all getting dumber. 

[AxnJxn]

7 hours ago, KDB said:

I really like Archie. I think he’s a good coach.  I’m rooting for him. I think he should get a year 5.

That said, as much as I like him, you have to start winning at some point. If you can’t do it in the first five years at Indiana, you’re not gonna last. 

I really hope it clicks next season and we can get excited about the future of the program with Archie at the helm. If not, it’s gonna be time to move on.. and if that happens, they HAVE to get that hire right.

This is where I am. There have been some positive things this year, but it seems like when one problem gets fixed or improves (FT shooting, for example), another problem rears its head. I've mentioned this before, and I hate to pin things on 1-2 players, but the biggest issue with this team boils down to Rob and Al, and their lack of production. One of those guys wasn't CAM's recruit, which really means that this could be boiled down to Archie missing on Rob. You could go even further and say that Rob hasn't been the same since his concussion, too, and I think most IU fans were pretty high on getting Rob when he committed. In addition, Rob was the kind of recruit we need - a 4 year guy - and also had offers from UVa, Purdue, Georgetown, and OSU, so it's not like he was a complete slouch. 

I get it, though. The above sounds like a lot of excuses, and CAM is ultimately responsible for the state of the program, and the results to this point aren't acceptable at IU (especially when you have a guy in Holtmann at OSU who has his team in the top 5 and was hired at the same time). I just don't know that it's a good idea to fire a guy for missing on one recruit, which is what this looks like. We've seen solid development from Armaan and Race, and this freshman class has shown promise, too. I would rather see what happens next year with this group before making a decision.

'Course, if Stevens is interested, all that I just wrote goes right out the window.

[DC2345]

So here's the problem with IU. They don't know what to do once a set breaks down. They don't know how to play and that's why they end up forcing it to TJD in the post and then standing around and watching like he's a circus act. It's ridiculous. This is why Rob is always looking at Archie wanting to know what to run. Teams that win know how to play when that happens. Villanova is a great example. They play motion and teach their guys how to play basketball with space and movement. That's what IU doesn't do right now. Once a set breaks down everyone stops moving and watches the ball. When it comes time to win a game it usually comes down to players and not plays and right now IU relies on plays or a guy to win a one on one matchup. That's why they are very inconsistent and that will likely continue. 

[BADGERVOL]

1 hour ago, AxnJxn said:

This is where I am. There have been some positive things this year, but it seems like when one problem gets fixed or improves (FT shooting, for example), another problem rears its head. I've mentioned this before, and I hate to pin things on 1-2 players, but the biggest issue with this team boils down to Rob and Al, and their lack of production. One of those guys wasn't CAM's recruit, which really means that this could be boiled down to Archie missing on Rob. You could go even further and say that Rob hasn't been the same since his concussion, too, and I think most IU fans were pretty high on getting Rob when he committed. In addition, Rob was the kind of recruit we need - a 4 year guy - and also had offers from UVa, Purdue, Georgetown, and OSU, so it's not like he was a complete slouch. 

I get it, though. The above sounds like a lot of excuses, and CAM is ultimately responsible for the state of the program, and the results to this point aren't acceptable at IU (especially when you have a guy in Holtmann at OSU who has his team in the top 5 and was hired at the same time). I just don't know that it's a good idea to fire a guy for missing on one recruit, which is what this looks like. We've seen solid development from Armaan and Race, and this freshman class has shown promise, too. I would rather see what happens next year with this group before making a decision.

'Course, if Stevens is interested, all that I just wrote goes right out the window.

If your problem after FOUR years as a coach is that ONE recruit didn’t pan out...the case is closed...you should lose your job period.