Big Ten 2021

[NotIThatLives]

2 hours ago, btownqb said:

Hey that's certainly fair. I don't think your scenario is very realistic, as far as what the agent can do in a weeks time, but my whole stance on this is from a teammates perspective. 

I wouldn't be cool with a teammate sitting out. Either you're with us or... 

Why don't NCAAB players sit out March Madness? Or conference tourneys? I don't understand where the line is. 

Again.. not all that big of a deal to me, I don't think less of guys who sit out, but I would if I was there teammate, no question. 

As a teammate, depends on the motive if Im upset.  May be disappointed but understanding if I know a legit reason besides greed.  

Good question on bball.  Extremely rare to see a guy sit out in basketball.  Severity of injury is much less.  

[btownqb]

21 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

As a teammate, depends on the motive if Im upset.  May be disappointed but understanding if I know a legit reason besides greed.  

Good question on bball.  Extremely rare to see a guy sit out in basketball.  Severity of injury is much less.  

Not true. 

But, sorry man, I don't view it like you do. As a teammate, you don't sit out. Very black and white for me. 

[NotIThatLives]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Not true. 

But, sorry man, I don't view it like you do. As a teammate, you don't sit out. Very black and white for me. 

Ok, maybe odds of severe injury.  

I get the teammate aspect.

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Ok, maybe odds of severe injury.  

I get the teammate aspect.

Fair. 

[dgambill]

On 12/8/2021 at 3:11 PM, btownqb said:

Not true. 

But, sorry man, I don't view it like you do. As a teammate, you don't sit out. Very black and white for me. 

Honestly I promise I'm not trying to pick a fight. Just trying to understand where you are coming at from this. Is there any reason you can sit out? Like if you have family obligations....and if that is ok, then why would doing what is potentially best for effecting your ability to set up your family financially for life any different? Heck, I sat out ball games for church all the time growing up. Never had one single coach or teammate upset. In fact the coach went out of his way to reschedule games so I could go to church and still make the games....but there was never a problem with any parents, coaches, or any of us kids. I'm not trying to argue or change your mind. I honestly just like to understand the other side of this arguement a little better. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by dgambill

[btownqb]

11 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Honestly I promise I'm not trying to pick a fight. Just trying to understand where you are coming at from this. Is there any reason you can sit out? Like if you have family obligations....and if that is ok, then why would doing what is potentially best for effecting your ability to set up your family financially for life any different? Heck, I sat out ball games for church all the time growing up. Never had one single coach or teammate upset. In fact the coach went out of his way to reschedule games so I could go to church and still make the games....but there was never a problem with any parents, coaches, or any of us kids. I'm not trying to argue or change your mind. I honestly just like to understand the other side of this arguement a little better. 

If you start something, you finish. Sitting out for church, as a kid, is pretty different than sitting out a bowl game you and your teammates have worked for since last season. 

Hey Deion tweeted about it today. 

If they were so worried of injury, why play all season? Why not just worry about getting a degree and a job to change things for you family? Go into coaching/media/whatever? 

But you're right.. that potentially MIGHT be what's best for YOU.. but I'd never make it about myself, again, this isn't tennis. This is the ultimate team sport, literally, there is no other sport that comes close to the amount of individuals it takes for a football team to be successful. Then to just say.. meh yeah no big deal that you sat out the biggest game of the year because you're scared to get hurt?... as a teammate, nope, not cool with that. I'd remember the dudes who did play though. 

This whole conversation, from my side of things, has been based on what my opinion would be if I were a teammate. As a 30 year old that opinion matters zero... I think it's lame, but whatever, I guess. 

[dgambill]

45 minutes ago, btownqb said:

If you start something, you finish. Sitting out for church, as a kid, is pretty different than sitting out a bowl game you and your teammates have worked for since last season. 

Hey Deion tweeted about it today. 

If they were so worried of injury, why play all season? Why not just worry about getting a degree and a job to change things for you family? Go into coaching/media/whatever? 

But you're right.. that potentially MIGHT be what's best for YOU.. but I'd never make it about myself, again, this isn't tennis. This is the ultimate team sport, literally, there is no other sport that comes close to the amount of individuals it takes for a football team to be successful. Then to just say.. meh yeah no big deal that you sat out the biggest game of the year because you're scared to get hurt?... as a teammate, nope, not cool with that. I'd remember the dudes who did play though. 

This whole conversation, from my side of things, has been based on what my opinion would be if I were a teammate. As a 30 year old that opinion matters zero... I think it's lame, but whatever, I guess. 

Thank you for your thoughtful perspective. I appreciate you engaging with me. I doubt these guys are taking the decision lightly for the most part. I think it pains them just as much as it might pain their teammates...but at the end of the day I understand that I have to sometimes make perceived "selfish" decisions that are in the best interest of not really just me but take in consideration financially taking care of my entire current and future family. It's easy I feel for someone like myself to say they are being selfish and should play for my team or for someone like Deion that has financially set up probably 4 to 5 generations of Sanders family now that he is in the phase of his life he depends on these young kids for his job....but again...the Universities, the administrations, the coaches lot's of people use these kids who mostly get very little more than the education out of the situation. I'm fine if and when they decide to take care of their future....if it's 12 games in...or 13 or whatever. Heck, I suppose the one's that leave college early might be seen as bailing on their staff too if we want to take it to extremes. I just don't think a majority of college kids take it the way perhaps you do...but then again I'm not his teammate and I could also be mistaken. I guess I just don't begrudge anyone the opportunity of such a life changing event..and just would wonder why someone else would feel disrespected they take that opportunity. I think in a perfect world they would all be able to stay and finish it out and none would get hurt and it would all work out but unfortunately it does happen. Happened to Jalon Smith and I'm sure many other kids....but then again it happens to some during the season. It can be a vicious game. Anyways...thank you again for your thoughts. Not that being an athlete is the only opinion since most of us played sports growing up...but I do appreciate yours since you are so close to the game even today.

[IU Scott]

3 hours ago, dgambill said:

Honestly I promise I'm not trying to pick a fight. Just trying to understand where you are coming at from this. Is there any reason you can sit out? Like if you have family obligations....and if that is ok, then why would doing what is potentially best for effecting your ability to set up your family financially for life any different? Heck, I sat out ball games for church all the time growing up. Never had one single coach or teammate upset. In fact the coach went out of his way to reschedule games so I could go to church and still make the games....but there was never a problem with any parents, coaches, or any of us kids. I'm not trying to argue or change your mind. I honestly just like to understand the other side of this arguement a little better. 

So you are comparing you aying as a kid to a scholarship athlete in college.  To me they are quitting on their team and not finishing the season.  The thing is I have seen more and more guys getting injured preparing for the draft.  Colts second round pick this year tore his Achilles working out.

[Billingsley99]

I too feel they are obligated to play. The bowl game for some might change their future as well. Lots of eyes on these guys and you would like to be able to be the best team you can be. The school, coaches and teammates helped you to get the opportunity to get drafted. To me you are sticking it to each and everyone of them. 

[Seeking6]

Big 10 East just got better. Penn St hiring Manny Diaz for DC. Good move by them and Manny is a D guy. Expect to help out in recruiting too....because even though he was let go Manny is loved by tons of kids in South Florida.

 

[Steubenhoosier]

16 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Big 10 East just got better. Penn St hiring Manny Diaz for DC. Good move by them and Manny is a D guy. Expect to help out in recruiting too....because even though he was let go Manny is loved by tons of kids in South Florida.

 

Also, announced that Clifford is returning for another year as quarterback. Regardless of the opinion of him, he brings back a ton of experience and toughness.

[btownqb]

18 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Also, announced that Clifford is returning for another year as quarterback. Regardless of the opinion of him, he brings back a ton of experience and toughness.

For a college QB, he's solid. I don't think he had shown that before this year. He changed my tune this season. I thought he was very good. 

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

For a college QB, he's solid. I don't think he had shown that before this year. He changed my tune this season. I thought he was very good. 

Agree. As a PSU fan I've obviously watched him a lot. Clifford isn't a Heisman/1st round pick type of guy clearly, but he's in that next tier of college QB's. 

In almost every game they play, not all but most, Penn State has the best QB on the field. 

Last year he was the victim of a bad offensive line and a bad first year OC. This year injuries got him in the middle of the season. 

But Clifford is a QB you can absolutely win a Big Ten Title with. 

[btownqb]

22 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree. As a PSU fan I've obviously watched him a lot. Clifford isn't a Heisman/1st round pick type of guy clearly, but he's in that next tier of college QB's. 

In almost every game they play, not all but most, Penn State has the best QB on the field. 

Last year he was the victim of a bad offensive line and a bad first year OC. This year injuries got him in the middle of the season. 

But Clifford is a QB you can absolutely win a Big Ten Title with. 

I think so too. 

Especially if you just don't factor OSU in the mix lol he's as good or better than the UM guys. 

Better than Iowa, UW, MSU QBs. He might be the 2nd best QB in the B1G. 3rd at worst I'd say. 

[thirdgenhoosier]

If Clifford is the second or even third best QB in the conference then I’d say the conference has a QB problem.  

[BGleas]

Just now, thirdgenhoosier said:

If Clifford is the second or even third best QB in the conference then I’d say the conference has a QB problem.  

I'm going to guess you didn't watch a lot of PSU this year? 

He's really good. Not great, but really good. Who is better besides OSU's QB?

[thirdgenhoosier]

Just now, BGleas said:

I'm going to guess you didn't watch a lot of PSU this year? 

He's really good. Not great, but really good. Who is better besides OSU's QB?

Oh that’s not what I’m saying.  What I’m saying is if he is the second best our conference has to offer, I don’t think the conference has many quality QBs.  To me he is tough and reminds me of Peyton Ramsey.  And that’s a compliment.  But I don’t think he’s quite good enough to be in that next tier below a first round pick.

[Stlboiler23]

13 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'm going to guess you didn't watch a lot of PSU this year? 

He's really good. Not great, but really good. Who is better besides OSU's QB?

AOC

[thirdgenhoosier]

1 minute ago, Stlboiler23 said:

AOC

No.  I’d take Clifford. 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

Oh that’s not what I’m saying.  What I’m saying is if he is the second best our conference has to offer, I don’t think the conference has many quality QBs.  To me he is tough and reminds me of Peyton Ramsey.  And that’s a compliment.  But I don’t think he’s quite good enough to be in that next tier below a first round pick.

I hear what you're saying, though Clifford is in a completely different class then Peyton Ramsey. His arm is much, much better. Don't get me wrong I like IU football too, but there's a reason one was recruited to PSU and one to IU. 

He's been a starter at PSU for 3 years now and has two years with 20+ TD's and 7 or less INT's. He'll throw for over 3,000 yards this year after the Bowl game. 

I think he's a guy that will get drafted. Not super high, but I think he will get drafted. 

[BGleas]

5 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

AOC

I guess it's arguable, but I think Clifford is better.

[thirdgenhoosier]

Just now, BGleas said:

I hear what you're saying, though Clifford is in a completely different class then Peyton Ramsey. His arm is much, much better. Don't get me wrong I like IU football too, but there's a reason one was recruited to PSU and one to IU. 

He's been a starter at PSU for 3 years now and has two years with 20+ TD's and 7 or less INT's. He'll throw for over 3,000 yards this year after the Bowl game. 

I think he's a guy that will get drafted. Not super high, but I think he will get drafted. 

I agree w most of that.  Maybe we are categorizing things a bit different.  When you said next tier below first round pick, I think rounds 2-4.  I don’t think he’s there.  But I can easily see him as a later pick and would be surprised if he wasn’t drafted at all.  I wasn’t trying to knock Clifford.  Sorry if you took it that way.  Again, more of a comment on the conference as a whole.

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I agree w most of that.  Maybe we are categorizing things a bit different.  When you said next tier below first round pick, I think rounds 2-4.  I don’t think he’s there.  But I can easily see him as a later pick and would be surprised if he wasn’t drafted at all.  I wasn’t trying to knock Clifford.  Sorry if you took it that way.  Again, more of a comment on the conference as a whole.

No, I understand what you're saying. 

When I said the first round pick thing in my original post, I wasn't really referring to where he'd get drafted, I just meant his place in college football. 

He's clearly not a 1st round pick guy, but to me in terms of his college ability and ability to win at the collegiate level, he's in that next tier of QB's. 

As a college team, there's not much difference if you're QB is projected to be drafted 87th or 150th. At that point you don't have an elite/Heisman level guy, but you have a very, very good QB that you can win a major conference title with. 

To me, that is Clifford. He's an upper echelon, though not elite, college QB.  

[Stlboiler23]

3 hours ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

No.  I’d take Clifford. 

Agree to disagree. I think AOC has built a case to be number 2 behind Stroud. 

[thirdgenhoosier]

23 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Agree to disagree. I think AOC has built a case to be number 2 behind Stroud. 

If you weren’t such a homer you’d feel different.  This isn’t about a season’s worth of stats.