Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[NotIThatLives]

3 minutes ago, Mike said:

Pearl is already 63.Hire someone that old again?

 

I'm not necessarily promoting him.  Just rebuting the idea that top 15 guys won't come here.  Pearl still coaches with fire though.  

[Indy1987]

54 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I don't think they would be scared to come here but I don't think they would feel the need to come here. Why would a successful coach at a power conference team leave their current situation to come here. If they have proven they can win where they are at and make as much money why would those coaches come here.

A coach that plays 2nd fiddle to football at their school maybe.  Or a coach that sees the vast resources and great facilities that IU has and their school doesn't.   

How many other schools spend money on their basketball teams like IU?  A good coach could build a freaking dynasty with what we have. But we keep hiring the wrong people for the wrong reasons. 

Go Hoosiers!!!

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

Would Bruce Pearl?  He's probably a top 15 coach with experience and has been consistently forming top 15 teams, and is top 10 in pay.  Regardless how you feel about him. Would he come to IU?

I don't know why he would. He has won at Auburn and got to a final four. He has really no pressure and as long as he keeps doing what he is doing he will not lose his job

 If his first 3 years at IU was the same as his first 3 at Auburn he would be on the hot s at.

Edited January 21 by IU Scott

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

Someone remind me why he's so vilified?  Bbqs with cash?  Something about switching at Illinios as a graduate assistant?

Well he had an assistant arrested in the FBI investigation of college basketball 

[HoosierDom]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

So a coach shouldn't ever get credit  for making good players better. I saw a lot of growth from TJD his last two years. He played a lot harder his last two years and gave a lot more effort consistently. I saw him develop as a passer and ball handler. I guess we will keep disagreeing about JHS because he developed a lot from the start to the end of the season. He came into school not considered a one and done player or a lottery pick. By the end of the season he was both. I see Reneau and Ware both have developed over their last season.

 

Anyone who doesn't think TJD and Reneau improved considerably in their time here either hasn't watched us play enough or is too blinded by their dislike of this year's team to see painfully obvious truths. It's never easy to know where the credit should be placed when guys get better, but they clearly got much better. The simple fact that TJD was drafted to a guaranteed contract when he had been told before that wouldn't happen is pretty strong evidence. As are his numbers. What I was most impressed by is the way he developed touch. He missed so many close in shots his sophomore year, but by his senior year he was deft around the rim. His assists and blocks point to his obvious improvements there. The difference was enormous.

We saw them over a smaller window, so it's harder to say with Ware and JHS, but Ware's numbers make it clear he has improved and JHS outperformed his ranking. 

I'm open to the idea that last year's team should have been better than it was given the parts, but that's different than saying guys didn't significantly improve. They did.

[IUProfessor]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well he had an assistant arrested in the FBI investigation of college basketball 

For mostly doing things that would now be legal in the NIL era. Not saying that makes it OK, but the ground has shifted considerably in this regard in the last 5 or 6 years.

[Basketball Junkie]

3 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i don't disagree with your overall point, but don't other coaches probably realize that TJD has in like his 8th year of college basketball and was pretty much still the same player, but more experienced?  and that JHS was going to do what he did given the chance?  i'm just not ready to give a ton of credit for that.  then i guess he accomplished making the tourney, but going nowhere with that.  i don't think that's a huge accomplishment with the talent we had.  i do agree about the purgatory statement though.  would be a pretty unpopular firing at this point and continue the carousel.  someone like May could fear he'll be jobless in 3 years if he isn't succeeding.  unfortunately we agree that Woodson ain't goin anywhere and he is not the guy we need to get us over the hump.  

Totally agree in regards to TJD. I have never understood those who say Woodson developed him so much. He was just a really good player who got better each and every year he played. As would be the case with most anyone if they played 4 years in college.  

In the case of JHS I see it the same as you. He got an opportunity due to Johnson getting hurt and ran with it. Likely a chance he would have not gotten without the injury. I would say he developed more despite Woodson rather than because of him.

And lastly I definitely agree that making the tournament was not a great accomplishment. I have said in the past that it should have been considered a disappointment.  With the talent of the 2 above, plus a very weak Big 10 I would expect more than finishing 3 games out of first place and getting boat raced in round 2 of the tournament.

[Hoosierdave]

2 hours ago, DC2345 said:

Ok so I’m going to address 2 things here the first is that Woodson didn’t develop JHS until he had to. He didn’t maximize his potential until after X got hurt because he was playing off the ball a lot. As for TJD his overall skill set didn’t really develop. He was just put in situations to succeed at a higher level under Woodson. The second is that people claiming coaches would be scared of taking the IU job are just wrong. Most coaches think they can be the one to fix a situation. Was Saban scared to take the Alabama job because they weren’t what they were under Bear Bryant and had gone through several head coaches since? Absolutely not and look what happened. I actually think there are some parallels to Alabama pre Saban and IU currently. The right coach can change everything. 

To clarify, I don’t think Woody is some player development guru. I was just saying that college coaches aren’t sitting down and watching IU games all year, so they would look at surface level things the media discusses like record and awards. Last year we had a good record/season, and our 2 best players walked away with impressive awards. Also, TJD and Woody get the last laugh because he’s proving he can make an impact in the NBA doing solely what he already did best. Also, Let’s be real, Woody would have been criticized by fans had he prioritized TJDs draft stock and had him taking a bunch of mid range jumpers to prove he could instead of easy dunks/layups and that strategy resulting in a handful of additional loses. 
 

The Miami game killed a ton of momentum IMO but those results nonetheless led to so many highly ranked 2024 recruits visiting, Ware committing, Mac’s mom reaching out to Woody to recruit him, Liam coming next year, almost landing Boogie Fland, and possibly Queen. While I don’t think Woody is a good coach, he hasn’t even finished his third year yet and this is his first college coaching gig ever.  It wouldn’t surprise me if other coaches were saying to themselves “what exactly were IU fans expecting from him in the first place?”

“Scared” was dramatic word I used but like IU Scott said, my point was that coaches feel they can do just as well/better at their respective schools while also avoiding a more vocal fanbase like ours if things were to ever go downhill. That’s part of the reason why we ended up with Woody in the first place. 

I get what you’re going for with the Bama comparison but Bama had good seasons before Saban arrived in 2007. They had multiple 10 win seasons since 2000. They won the cotton bowl 2 years before Saban arrived. That would have been like us trying to hire a coach after Archie Miller takes to an elite 8 or sweet sixteen. We haven’t been relevant like that since 2016. Were not a blue blood nowadays so that would be more like Coach Cal or Self going to the NBA and coming back nowadays to coach at like UCLA, Michigan, Louisville, etc. 

Like I said, I think with a competent AD you can sell a good coach on coming here because we still have a good home court advantage and invest a lot in our basketball program.

[IUProfessor]

I will say that the cupboard of established, successful P5 coaches who might be interested, and who would fit the bill, is looking a little thin right now. Shaka Smart probably would come. I'd bet Pearl would come if offered, but again he might not fit the bill. Maybe Mick Cronin, if he's ready to get back to the Midwest?

Beyond that, you might be looking at someone like Dennis Gates, who has lost a bit of luster this year. And even then, he wouldn't be that exciting (based on record to date).

T. J. Otzelberger might be interesting down the road, but needs to prove himself a bit more before landing a job like IU.

So, even if IU decides to move on from Woodson, unless you're convinced Dusty May is the guy, it might be better to wait another year or two.

[bluegrassIU]

The whole Dusty May thing drives me nuts. If he didn't attend IU we would he insulted by anybody suggesting he should be the coach at IU.

He has a decent overall record, with ONE high level result. One!!!

But he is somehow the future?

Maybe he will become great. But he has no track record to speak of. One good season. 

Furthermore, look where he eas in his 3rd season at FAU. He was no better year three than Woodson is now at IU. 

I just don't get it.  

[94hoosier]

46 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Anyone who doesn't think TJD and Reneau improved considerably in their time here either hasn't watched us play enough or is too blinded by their dislike of this year's team to see painfully obvious truths. It's never easy to know where the credit should be placed when guys get better, but they clearly got much better. The simple fact that TJD was drafted to a guaranteed contract when he had been told before that wouldn't happen is pretty strong evidence. As are his numbers. What I was most impressed by is the way he developed touch. He missed so many close in shots his sophomore year, but by his senior year he was deft around the rim. His assists and blocks point to his obvious improvements there. The difference was enormous.

We saw them over a smaller window, so it's harder to say with Ware and JHS, but Ware's numbers make it clear he has improved and JHS outperformed his ranking. 

I'm open to the idea that last year's team should have been better than it was given the parts, but that's different than saying guys didn't significantly improve. They did.

TJD clearly got better the last two years. JHS clearly got better. Thompson got better. Galloway got better. Reneau couldn’t defend the perimeter last year at all. He is getting better game by game. Some want him as a 5 but he is not a 5. He can play the 5 some but for him to be successful he need stomach as 4. He is shooting the ball from 3 very well. Handling the ball better. Reneau as a sophomore is ahead of were TJD was in a lot of areas. But Malik is not the athlete that TJD was He is better a the 4 because he struggles against the length of most 5. 

People can complain about the coaches all they want. But they have clearly made most players better. Coaches only can help players get better. But it is on the players as much as the coaches. Some improve some don’t

[Steubenhoosier]

4 minutes ago, 94hoosier said:

TJD clearly got better the last two years. JHS clearly got better. Thompson got better. Galloway got better. Reneau couldn’t defend the perimeter last year at all. He is getting better game by game. Some want him as a 5 but he is not a 5. He can play the 5 some but for him to be successful he need stomach as 4. He is shooting the ball from 3 very well. Handling the ball better. Reneau as a sophomore is ahead of were TJD was in a lot of areas. But Malik is not the athlete that TJD was He is better a the 4 because he struggles against the length of most 5. 

People can complain about the coaches all they want. But they have clearly made most players better. Coaches only can help players get better. But it is on the players as much as the coaches. Some improve some don’t

THD became a much bigger threat because he became a much better passer out of the post. He also became better/more confident in his handle.

Ware has significantly improved his game. From a guy whose motor was in question, he has become almost an automatic double-double.

[Basketball Junkie]

18 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

The whole Dusty May thing drives me nuts. If he didn't attend IU we would he insulted by anybody suggesting he should be the coach at IU.

He has a decent overall record, with ONE high level result. One!!!

But he is somehow the future?

Maybe he will become great. But he has no track record to speak of. One good season. 

Furthermore, look where he eas in his 3rd season at FAU. He was no better year three than Woodson is now at IU. 

I just don't get it.  

Much like the current situation. Had Woodson not went to IU he would have never been considered for hiring.

[Boiler Sam]

54 minutes ago, IUProfessor said:

I will say that the cupboard of established, successful P5 coaches who might be interested, and who would fit the bill, is looking a little thin right now. Shaka Smart probably would come. I'd bet Pearl would come if offered, but again he might not fit the bill. Maybe Mick Cronin, if he's ready to get back to the Midwest?

Beyond that, you might be looking at someone like Dennis Gates, who has lost a bit of luster this year. And even then, he wouldn't be that exciting (based on record to date).

T. J. Otzelberger might be interesting down the road, but needs to prove himself a bit more before landing a job like IU.

So, even if IU decides to move on from Woodson, unless you're convinced Dusty May is the guy, it might be better to wait another year or two.

Would Beard be a non starter with the IU administration?

[bronkonagurski]

What is Pat Knight up to these days? 

[DC2345]

10 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said:

Would Beard be a non starter with the IU administration?

Yes 

[13th&Jackson]

15 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

The whole Dusty May thing drives me nuts. If he didn't attend IU we would he insulted by anybody suggesting he should be the coach at IU.

He has a decent overall record, with ONE high level result. One!!!

But he is somehow the future?

Maybe he will become great. But he has no track record to speak of. One good season. 

Furthermore, look where he eas in his 3rd season at FAU. He was no better year three than Woodson is now at IU. 

I just don't get it.  

Of course the IU ties are a big factor in the discussion. Don’t know if he’s the right guy. That said, there is no comparison to what May and Woodson inherited. 
 

May had no agent, so almost purely on vibes and the temperature in the air, he put pen to paper.

"At that point, I still haven't been to our gym, our weight room, our locker room," May said.

When he saw the gym, the weight room, the locker room, May was cloaked in remorse

"When I get to the gym, there's a pickup game going on," May said. "The facilities weren't up to par. And I had already accepted the job."

The locker room had these old, ugly wooden lockers. It was exceptionally tiny. There was more square footage for the six showers than the actual space for people in the locker room. The arena sat 2,500, had an outdated scoreboard and looked superannuated. High school teams in the area were playing in better facilities.

May wasn't the only one with initial immediate regrets. 

A couple days after May took the job, he used his connections at the University of Florida to help fill out a staff. Then-UF assistant Darris Nichols called Akeem Miskdeen, who was wiping snow off his windshield in Kent, Ohio, when he picked up the phone. Miskdeen Googled FAU and Boca Raton and thought: Hell yeah, I'd be interested in that. He was young, no kids, wanted to get out of his Midwest comfort zone. 

"When I got the job and I saw the facility, in my head I was like, I left Kent State to come to FAU? I left a real job to go to Florida Atlantic," Miskdeen told CBS Sports. "The first thing I thought was, Why did I take this job?"

The facilities were so small for both basketball teams and the volleyball program, that if any of the three had a game — or sometimes even a practice — there was no space for the players to keep their gear because the visiting team had to use the second/only other locker room. 

the state of the place in 2018 was so piteous, the staff actually prided themselves on signing 10 players in their first year without ever allowing one recruit to see the locker room. They'd show recruits the football facilities, which at that point were starting to be built under then-coach Lane Kiffin.

"We'd avoid certain things and had to sell ourselves," Pastrana said. 

It got so comical that a few of the first commits to FAU under May found themselves asking, "Coach, where's the locker room?" after they enrolled on campus.

They'd never even seen it.

"We basically said it was under renovation," Pastrana said. 

Recruiting was so touch-and-go, May and his staff convinced a Wright State transfer — who was only in the area for spring break to see his girlfriend at the University of Miami — to stop by for a quick visit. They eventually signed that player, Everett Winchester, who finished his FAU career a year ago. 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dusty-may-wanted-to-quit-hours-after-signing-fau-contract-now-hes-coached-owls-to-improbable-final-four-run/amp/

[DC2345]

When I look at the options for the next coach I’m looking at how they run their offense and what people think of them and not just prior success. To many people get infatuated with big names without looking at what they actually do with X’s and O’s. 

[IU Scott]

22 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said:

Would Beard be a non starter with the IU administration?

I hope because we don't need his type here.

[TheWatShot]

43 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

The whole Dusty May thing drives me nuts. If he didn't attend IU we would he insulted by anybody suggesting he should be the coach at IU.

He has a decent overall record, with ONE high level result. One!!!

But he is somehow the future?

Maybe he will become great. But he has no track record to speak of. One good season. 

Furthermore, look where he eas in his 3rd season at FAU. He was no better year three than Woodson is now at IU. 

I just don't get it.  

How he would fit at IU is more important to me than his prior results. I think Dusty May understands what he'd be getting into and what is expected here. Archie Miller wasn't ready for this and it was obvious from day one. Mike Davis was overwhelmed by that pressure as well. Mike Woodson looks burned out and coaches either like it's 1980 or he's still in the NBA, sometimes both. 

 

I don't think anyone should be insulted by the consideration of May. The pool of coaches we could realistically select from isn't getting bigger with time.

[NCHoosier32]

1 hour ago, HoosierDom said:

Anyone who doesn't think TJD and Reneau improved considerably in their time here either hasn't watched us play enough or is too blinded by their dislike of this year's team to see painfully obvious truths. It's never easy to know where the credit should be placed when guys get better, but they clearly got much better. The simple fact that TJD was drafted to a guaranteed contract when he had been told before that wouldn't happen is pretty strong evidence. As are his numbers. What I was most impressed by is the way he developed touch. He missed so many close in shots his sophomore year, but by his senior year he was deft around the rim. His assists and blocks point to his obvious improvements there. The difference was enormous.

We saw them over a smaller window, so it's harder to say with Ware and JHS, but Ware's numbers make it clear he has improved and JHS outperformed his ranking. 

I'm open to the idea that last year's team should have been better than it was given the parts, but that's different than saying guys didn't significantly improve. They did.

we this very very differently

[Threedom]

It isn’t time to fire Woodson yet.  This year has been unbearable so far, but it isn’t over.  Clearly there are things that need to get better.  When hired, I remember him commenting about his unique use of the “3 ball” and commenters were talking about his 4 out style of play.  Maybe I have missed it, but haven’t seen either yet.  Also, I think most of us fans would be good with the current record if we could do the basics, like rebound, defend, and minimize turnovers.  And maybe have a decent offensive approach.  Coach needs to step up on these things that have nothing to do with shooting ability and fans will notice it. 
 

it may be too late for the tournament, but hopefully he addresses these basic things soon for the sake of his job and the program. 

[NCHoosier32]

59 minutes ago, 94hoosier said:

TJD clearly got better the last two years. JHS clearly got better. Thompson got better. Galloway got better. Reneau couldn’t defend the perimeter last year at all. He is getting better game by game. Some want him as a 5 but he is not a 5. He can play the 5 some but for him to be successful he need stomach as 4. He is shooting the ball from 3 very well. Handling the ball better. Reneau as a sophomore is ahead of were TJD was in a lot of areas. But Malik is not the athlete that TJD was He is better a the 4 because he struggles against the length of most 5. 

People can complain about the coaches all they want. But they have clearly made most players better. Coaches only can help players get better. But it is on the players as much as the coaches. Some improve some don’t

i just don't see it that way.  i mean we can say TJD got better over 6 years or whatever.  he did.  don't most?  he didn't improve his range or ballhandling, expand his game, he just got better at what he did.  again, JHS got off to a slow start because Woodson had him playing out of position.  he was forced to play him at PG when X went down and that's when he "improved."  Thompson got better?  okay i guess.  over 6 years he got a little better.  Galloway is still pretty much the same player.  in his 4th year he is shooting a little better.  Reneau is better because he is getting the chance to play a bigger role.  

[bluegrassIU]

6 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i just don't see it that way.  i mean we can say TJD got better over 6 years or whatever.  he did.  don't most?  he didn't improve his range or ballhandling, expand his game, he just got better at what he did.  again, JHS got off to a slow start because Woodson had him playing out of position.  he was forced to play him at PG when X went down and that's when he "improved."  Thompson got better?  okay i guess.  over 6 years he got a little better.  Galloway is still pretty much the same player.  in his 4th year he is shooting a little better.  Reneau is better because he is getting the chance to play a bigger role.  

Malik is 100% better than he waslast season. It's not just because he is playing more. 

TJD absolutely DID improve his ball handling and ability to use his right hand under Woodson.

And Ware is a way better player than he was at Oregon.

The whole "they got better because they got older" is just not fair. 

You basically said all those players got better. And Woodson had nothing to do with it.  🤷‍♂️

I think player development has been good. The struggle, imo, is more schematics, in game coaching and strategy. 

 

[94hoosier]

7 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i just don't see it that way.  i mean we can say TJD got better over 6 years or whatever.  he did.  don't most?  he didn't improve his range or ballhandling, expand his game, he just got better at what he did.  again, JHS got off to a slow start because Woodson had him playing out of position.  he was forced to play him at PG when X went down and that's when he "improved."  Thompson got better?  okay i guess.  over 6 years he got a little better.  Galloway is still pretty much the same player.  in his 4th year he is shooting a little better.  Reneau is better because he is getting the chance to play a bigger role.  

TJD ball handling and passing went from poor as a freshman to big reason why he got drafted. the ability to drive from wing and free throw line. Galloway is a dramatically different player.  Some of that comes with age and some from player development. Not giving the staff for player improvement is not fair. Blaming the staff for style of playing roster construction is fair. I think the staff makes good adjustments and in game coaching is good for the most part. Things are definitely not going good right now and it some off that clearly falls on the coaches and Woodson. 

I think most of our problems are falling on Johnson not playing the way he should be. Gunn and banks struggling to be consistent.