btownqb Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 Firing Crean after year 3? Wowza. There goes the WatShot. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDPU95 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, HoosierBrit64 said: Our guards can’t stop a dribble drive... 28 minutes ago, Kdug said: The only person to miss significant time has been XJ... Defending the ball at the point of attach is the key to every defensive scheme. The drop-off here when X is out is huge. Everything else breaks down from there. While hands down he is our best player, I would argue that from a defensive standpoint, we are worse off with X out than with Ware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, btownqb said: Firing Crean after year 3? Wowza. There goes the WatShot. Thank God we kept a coach after a 3-15 conference season just so we can relive a regular season game 10+ years after the fact. Tells you just how far this program has fallen. Unbelievable. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said: Defending the ball at the point of attach is the key to every defensive scheme. The drop-off here when X is out is huge. Everything else breaks down from there. While hands down he is our best player, I would argue that from a defensive standpoint, we are worse off with X out than with Ware. I think we’re pretty bad with and without X. The only stretch of games where I’d say we had good back-to-back performances were vs Maryland and at Michigan. X missed both of those games. If we had end of 2022 X, I’d agree with you. But against real competition this year, he’s essentially had one good game (vs OSU), a couple of decent games, and 5 truly horrendous games. If you’re squinting, you could maybe say that he was starting to play better in the last 3 games. But that’s partially because he had been a negative impact before that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Thank God we kept a coach after a 3-15 conference season just so we can relive a regular season game 10+ years after the fact. Tells you just how far this program has fallen. Unbelievable. stupid to include Year 3 in any complaint, but I'll entertain you.... In 6 years (not including the first two)... we were 150-89- 62% winning percentage 2 conference titles, 3 sweet 16s. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take our Year 3--- which record-wise it's a CLEAR anomaly in this data.. Record in 5 years (with 2 conference titles and 3 SS) is 138-69 (67%).... how anyone could look at that stretch and be upset with it? I have no clue. Looking at Year 3 roster--- Creek goes down again, Watford misses 4 games in the B1G, Verdell misses time with an injury---- VO was a FR, Sheehey a FR, Yogi+Zeller weren't on campus yet. Jeremiah Rivers was starting... and Crean needs to catch flak for that 10 years later? Give me a break, pretty clearly Crean fixed that issue in a big way. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, btownqb said: stupid to include Year 3 in any complaint, but I'll entertain you.... In 6 years (not including the first two)... we were 150-89- 62% winning percentage 2 conference titles, 3 sweet 16s. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take our Year 3--- which record-wise it's a CLEAR anomaly in this data.. Record in 5 years (with 2 conference titles and 3 SS) is 138-69 (67%).... how anyone could look at that stretch and be upset with it? I have no clue. Looking at Year 3 roster--- Creek goes down again, Watford misses 4 games in the B1G, Verdell misses time with an injury---- VO was a FR, Sheehey a FR, Yogi+Zeller weren't on campus yet. Jeremiah Rivers was starting... and Crean needs to catch flak for that 10 years later? Give me a break, pretty clearly Crean fixed that issue in a big way. Why is it stupid to include year 3? Teams in rebuilding mode should be progressing each year. Going 3-15 and losing 9 straight games to end the season isn’t progressing at all. I didn’t say he HAD to be fired after year 3, simply said it would have been justified. There were huge red flags all over the place after 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDPU95 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, Kdug said: I think we’re pretty bad with and without X. The only stretch of games where I’d say we had good back-to-back performances were vs Maryland and at Michigan. X missed both of those games. If we had end of 2022 X, I’d agree with you. But against real competition this year, he’s essentially had one good game (vs OSU), a couple of decent games, and 5 truly horrendous games. If you’re squinting, you could maybe say that he was starting to play better in the last 3 games. But that’s partially because he had been a negative impact before that. I'm not saying that X is All-BigTen. Saying "we have enough talent to ..." when our best on-the-ball defender is wildly inconsistent, mediocre at best and has missed a significant amount of games to boot just doesn't jive for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Why is it stupid to include year 3? Teams in rebuilding mode should be progressing each year. Going 3-15 and losing 9 straight games to end the season isn’t progressing at all. I didn’t say he HAD to be fired after year 3, simply said it would have been justified. There were huge red flags all over the place after 3 years. Dude.. there is rebuilding and then there is what Crean inherited at IU. Huge red flags? No. There weren't. Look at what he was working with in Year 3. Remember, Malik Story and Williams (cant remember his name) both left after their FR... we were playing with FR, SO, and Verdell Jones+Tom Pritchard. Then Creek/Watford/Jones missed time. Usually, when there is a CLEAR anomaly in data we generally take note of it, and discard it. You can see 10-21 record isn't anything like the last 5 years on his tenure here, it's pretty simple to see why that should be thrown out. Either way, I showed you the stats from his last 6 years, including that season, painting his time here as some awful experience for IU fans is 1. wrong 2. confusing. 62% over those 6 seasons, 2 conference titles, 3 SSs... I can certainly understand IU fans wanting more than that, I can respect that.... but that dwarfs what Davis, Woodson, and Achie did here. And again-- when you take out the outlier (year 3)--- 67% 3 Sweet 16s in 5 years. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What happens if OG doesn't go down in his last season here? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, btownqb said: Dude.. there is rebuilding and then there is what Crean inherited at IU. Huge red flags? No. There weren't. Look at what he was working with in Year 3. Remember, Malik Story and Williams (cant remember his name) both left after their FR... we were playing with FR, SO, and Verdell Jones+Tom Pritchard. Then Creek/Watford/Jones missed time. Usually, when there is a CLEAR anomaly in data we generally take note of it, and discard it. You can see 10-21 record isn't anything like the last 5 years on his tenure here, it's pretty simple to see why that should be thrown out. Either way, I showed you the stats from his last 6 years, including that season, painting his time here as some awful experience for IU fans is 1. wrong 2. confusing. 62% over those 6 seasons, 2 conference titles, 3 SSs... I can certainly understand IU fans wanting more than that, I can respect that.... but that dwarfs what Davis, Woodson, and Achie did here. And again-- when you take out the outlier (year 3)--- 67% 3 Sweet 16s in 5 years. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What happens if OG doesn't go down in his last season here? I gave him a pass in year 1 and even year 2 although year 2 ended in a disaster. His year 3 team had multiple upperclassmen who were all P5 capable players based on their offer sheets out of high school who all played a ton as underclassmen. There were several underclassmen on the roster who were highly and nationally ranked coming out of high school as well. Did I expect Crean to win the National Title in year 3? Of course not. But acting like finishing 3-15 and dead freaking last in the conference is some form of acceptable is ASININE. You think KU, UNC, Kentucky etc are bringing back a coach for a 4th year who went 3-15 the year prior? Hell no. But those programs also take basketball seriously. Make any excuse you want, it’s what you do, but Crean’s 3rd year was an absolute failure any way you try and slice it and termination would have certainly been warranted had the administration actually cared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, IndyResident16 said: Guys who aren't qualified to coach here in the first place should have the shortest of leashes. who is qualified to work at IU? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, ledies22 said: who is qualified to work at IU? Not guys who have never coached collegiately prior. That should be the bare minimum requirement. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 Just now, IndyResident16 said: Not guys who have never coached collegiately prior. That should be the bare minimum requirement. can you list your requirements? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: I gave him a pass in year 1 and even year 2 although year 2 ended in a disaster. His year 3 team had multiple upperclassmen who were all P5 capable players based on their offer sheets out of high school who all played a ton as underclassmen. There were several underclassmen on the roster who were highly and nationally ranked coming out of high school as well. Did I expect Crean to win the National Title in year 3? Of course not. But acting like finishing 3-15 and dead freaking last in the conference is some form of acceptable is ASININE. You think KU, UNC, Kentucky etc are bringing back a coach for a 4th year who went 3-15 the year prior? Hell no. But those programs also take basketball seriously. Make any excuse you want, it’s what you do, but Crean’s 3rd year was an absolute failure any way you try and slice it and termination would have certainly been warranted had the administration actually cared. Who were those upperclassmen? Pritchard and Jones? Seriously? Jeremiah Rivers!?! Highly and nationally ranked underclassmen? You mean the two that were injured, that I mentioned? To the bold, let's continue to just be adults here and talk sports. If you need to continue to take personal digs to try and get your point across, it'll be difficult for anyone to want to discuss anything with you. Again, that season is an anomaly. I am completely confused of the Duke, UK, KU, and UNC comment ---we aren't those schools, clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, ledies22 said: can you list your requirements? -P5 head coaching experience -previous tournament success -Runs an offense that relates to the 21st century -identify and develop talent 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Not guys who have never coached collegiately prior. That should be the bare minimum requirement. Erik Spolstra and Steve Kerr are non starters for ya? Huh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: -P5 head coaching experience -previous tournament success -Runs an offense that relates to the 21st century -identify and develop talent 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, btownqb said: Who were those upperclassmen? Pritchard and Jones? Seriously? Jeremiah Rivers!?! Highly and nationally ranked underclassmen? You mean the two that were injured, that I mentioned? To the bold, let's continue to just be adults here and talk sports. If you need to continue to take personal digs to try and get your point across, it'll be difficult for anyone to want to discuss anything with you. Again, that season is an anomaly. I am completely confused of the Duke, UK, KU, and UNC comment ---we aren't those schools, clearly. Pritchard and Jones who had two years worth of starting experience. Matt Roth who was a Sampson recruit. Rivers played at Georgetown. Watford who missed a total of 4 games, Jordan Hulls a consensus top 100 recruit, and then obviously Mo Creek who was lost midway through the season. If 3-15 with the roster is acceptable to you, that's on you. It should never be tolerated at Indiana. You haven't been alive to see Indiana as an elite basketball program. I wouldn't expect you to understand my comment about KU, UNC, UK etc. We were that type of program once, simply not anymore by choice. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, Maedhros said: Didn't mind the Tom Crean hire. It was the way he was retained for too long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, Maedhros said: Dang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Erik Spolstra and Steve Kerr are non starters for ya? Huh They wouldn't pick up the phone anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 49 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Why is it stupid to include year 3? Teams in rebuilding mode should be progressing each year. Going 3-15 and losing 9 straight games to end the season isn’t progressing at all. I didn’t say he HAD to be fired after year 3, simply said it would have been justified. There were huge red flags all over the place after 3 years. We did progress, though. I think there is room to debate if it was as much as we should have, but we jumped 100 spots in KenPom. I think 2008-2009 was Year 0 for Crean, and Year 1 was 2009-2010. If you think the progression you should see on a rebuild is, or was pre-portal and NIL at least, Lose Big, Lose Little, Win Little, Win Big we pretty well did that if you take 2008-09 as Year 0. Crean may have regressed back to "Lose Little" a couple season, for the most part though he was on the winning side after that. If we are then comparing it to where we are now, the frustration is that we are losing big in Year 3, and "losing little" next year would be progress. That isn't good enough IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Pritchard and Jones who had two years worth of starting experience. Matt Roth who was a Sampson recruit. Rivers played at Georgetown. Watford who missed a total of 4 games, Jordan Hulls a consensus top 100 recruit, and then obviously Mo Creek who was lost midway through the season. If 3-15 with the roster is acceptable to you, that's on you. It should never be tolerated at Indiana. You haven't been alive to see Indiana as an elite basketball program. I wouldn't expect you to understand my comment about KU, UNC, UK etc. We were that type of program once, simply not anymore by choice. When Mo went down the season fell apart. Verdell tried but he wasn't good enough nor had the leadership to drag Tom Pritchard and a bunch of scrawny freshman, what for it, over the hump. And yes. We are no longer in the UNC Kentucky category. I would say because of bad choices. I'd say we are running out of chances to get it right but ya gotta keep swinging to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: We did progress, though. I think there is room to debate if it was as much as we should have, but we jumped 100 spots in KenPom. I think 2008-2009 was Year 0 for Crean, and Year 1 was 2009-2010. If you think the progression you should see on a rebuild is, or was pre-portal and NIL at least, Lose Big, Lose Little, Win Little, Win Big we pretty well did that if you take 2008-09 as Year 0. Crean may have regressed back to "Lose Little" a couple season, for the most part though he was on the winning side after that. If we are then comparing it to where we are now, the frustration is that we are losing big in Year 3, and "losing little" next year would be progress. That isn't good enough IMO. We went 3-15 in the B10 and finished dead last in year 3. That isn't progress by any stretch of imagination. We lost our last 9 games of the season. The team absolutely quit. Massive red flags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: They wouldn't pick up the phone anyway. If you were Dolson you wouldn't even try based on your own standards. I'd literally try every single guy that's a head nba coach right now. But we are all entitled to our own opinions and ideas. I'd also throw 100 million at Jay Wright before anyone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jackson Kellogs said: Give me Josh Schertz from Indiana State. Hire him this offseason. If anyone hires Josh Schertz they need to get Matthew Graves to come along too. Although he may want his own HC job. Edited February 5 by mrflynn03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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