dgambill Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) 36 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I've said numerous times, if next year is mediocre and Dolson wants to make a change, I'd be all for it... What if he decides this year?? I mean I don’t know either way but can only support what he does. Will you support Dolson if that is what he does? No matter what none of us have a say in the decision. I can say only for myself…I’ve seen enough to think this is not likely to get significantly better. If they make a change im ok…if it stays the same so be it…but i think Dolson is on the hot seat along with Woodson if he lets it go on longer and he knows it should be fixed. This would be his second hire he won’t get a third…same with football…you aren’t getting multiple chances at these coaching decisions…so I’m sure he will do what he thinks is best. Edited March 4 by dgambill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 24 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said: I agree. And I am not sticking up for Woody. He was a reach hire to begin with (zero college experience) and most thought a stopgap. PU has had some "down" years in 2012 to 2015 and had a crap year in 2020. I am not saying Woody shouldn't be let go either, but at some point good coaches have down years, and IU has been mediocre for a long time, so it' not super surprising we're having a down year now. Woody did screw up this roster and if what you read about recruiting is true, he doesn't seem like any sort of grinder and you definitely need that nowadays. Hopefully things work out for the best regardless. I don't have Peegs access but apparently Rabjohns delivered a broadside on Woodson this afternoon specifically related to your last point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 5 minutes ago, iuswingman said: Are we talking players to flip or people with a lot of influence to flip? The latter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Curious….if you had to put money down….knowing what you know now, do you think we make the tournament next year? I know you want to give him the chance to make it, which I respect, but do you think we will? What odds do I get? A lot of variables...Don't know who we'll have on the roster...But let's just say if we have a nucleus of Reneau, Mgbako, and Cupps, I feel good about our chances...I'll be excited to see 2 shooters like McNeely and Mgbako out there... LOL...I burned $20 to prove the experience stuff...Hell yeah...at 10-1 I'd put $100 down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 7 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: The latter Those people aren’t likely to change between now and the end of the year…imo we will win a game or two more and lose a couple…nothing major will happen. Either you know a change is needed or you want another year to decide. Can’t see people changing their mind at this point. There is enough evidence on both sides…he’s coached 3 years and plenty of tape…he also has 4 recruiting classes now (if Liam is all we are landing)…so while the program maybe has stabilized some is there any momentum moving it ahead? People should know where they stand on that at this point.. couple games won’t change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 12 minutes ago, dgambill said: What if he decides this year?? I mean I don’t know either way but can only support what he does. Will you support Dolson if that is what he does? No matter what none of us have a say in the decision. I can say only for myself…I’ve seen enough to think this is not likely to get significantly better. If they make a change im ok…if it stays the same so be it…but i think Dolson is on the hot seat along with Woodson if he lets it go on longer and he knows it should be fixed. This would be his second hire he won’t get a third…same with football…you aren’t getting multiple chances at these coaching decisions…so I’m sure he will do what he thinks is best. I always support the program, the kids, and the coach...I didn't care for it when Sampson rolled into town with the NCAA hot on his heels, but I watched every game and rooted just as hard as I do now... But, my initial feelings did turn out to be true... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 1 minute ago, dgambill said: Those people aren’t likely to change between now and the end of the year…imo we will win a game or two more and lose a couple…nothing major will happen. Either you know a change is needed or you want another year to decide. Can’t see people changing their mind at this point. There is enough evidence on both sides…he’s coached 3 years and plenty of tape…he also has 4 recruiting classes now (if Liam is all we are landing)…so while the program maybe has stabilized some is there any momentum moving it ahead? People should know where they stand on that at this point.. couple games won’t change anything. I don't disagree. My mind is made up. There are people who aren't though. And some who aren't in the "we need to move on" category have some influence. And you also have to factor in that this is just message board tea leaves reading and people tend to build their own soap operas based on the info they have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, IUProfessor said: Depends on how you define it. If you are just looking at W/L record absent all other context, sure. But I don't think that you could find many examples of coaches with no long-term track record of success who appear to have lost all recruiting momentum, as well as the confidence of much of the fan base, and underperformed so starkly on the court given the existing talent base, but yet were able to rebound quickly to achieve the goals that Woodson himself set (B1G and National championships). And if you could find one, they probably wouldn't have been talking as stubbornly, or running as antiquated a scheme, as Woodson is. So the context matters. Which, again, is why the analogy of Pearl's first three years at Auburn is apples to oranges. @IUFLAanswer this question please. Tired of seeing you dodge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: @IUFLAanswer this question please. Tired of seeing you dodge it. I have numerous times, including here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I have numerous times, including here You completely dodged the question. Name the coaches without long term or previous success who have rebounded from the position that Woodson is in. Recruiting is as stale as can be, 1 incoming recruit with 5 available scholarships open on top of being told he needs to go watch the top in-state prospects for the 2025 class. Woodson is a dead man walking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 1 minute ago, IndyResident16 said: You completely dodged the question. Name the coaches without long term or previous success who have rebounded from the position that Woodson is in. Recruiting is as stale as can be, 1 incoming recruit with 5 available scholarships open on top of being told he needs to go watch the top in-state prospects for the 2025 class. Woodson is a dead man walking. I'm not going to dig through the history of college basketball coaches to satisfy you and the other "Fire Woody" posters... But, a question, and depending on the answer, a proposal... Are you saying Woody is gone after this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 34 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: I don't have Peegs access but apparently Rabjohns delivered a broadside on Woodson this afternoon specifically related to your last point. What is a broadside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 8 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: You completely dodged the question. Name the coaches without long term or previous success who have rebounded from the position that Woodson is in. Recruiting is as stale as can be, 1 incoming recruit with 5 available scholarships open on top of being told he needs to go watch the top in-state prospects for the 2025 class. Woodson is a dead man walking. Recruiting is likely not going to improve. Not many are going to commit more then 1 year to Woody when he is coaching year to year given his standing with the program. I don’t see how 25 gets better…but we shall see. I think he has a lot more support where it matters then on this board…and that’s all the matters truthfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 14 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'm not going to dig through the history of college basketball coaches to satisfy you and the other "Fire Woody" posters... But, a question, and depending on the answer, a proposal... Are you saying Woody is gone after this season? It's not my decision so I can't answer. But there's zero reason to keep him employed given his failure to build a foundation as a stop gap coach. I pity whoever has to take over this mess after next year coming off a 12-13 win season in the event he is retained knowing the one recruit Woodson signed for this class is off to the NBA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 4 hours ago, IUFLA said: Not "probably not." No way he would have gotten a 4th year... And Pearl started the "turnaround" just about the time Chuck Person started handing out money... "Despite finding Auburn guilty of the highest-level violation—a Level I-aggravated designation for its part in the bribery scandal four years ago—the Committee on Infractions accepted the school’s 2021 postseason ban and applied no additional postseason sanctions. Despite having a head coach involved in his second major infractions case in his last two jobs, Pearl is suspended a mere two games. The charges (which were hidden by the school for nearly two years when it refused to release the Notice of Allegations) were serious; the punishment was not." Now, you can say, "well, it's all legal now." and it is...But it wasn't then, and that speak to integrity... You realize Chuck Person wasn't handing out money, right? He also wasn't doing something illicit to bring players to Auburn. He accepted bribes to steer current players to a financial advisor/business manager. His lawyers indicated that he was in financial trouble following the end of his NBA career. Over the course of a year, PERSON, a former men’s basketball coach at Auburn University until shortly after his arrest, agreed to accept cash bribes in return for agreeing to exert his influence over student-athletes on the Division I men’s basketball team he coached to retain the services of the bribe-payers, including once the student-athletes entered the National Basketball Association (“NBA”). https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/chuck-person-former-division-i-men-s-basketball-coach-pleads-guilty-bribery-manhattan 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) 8 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: You realize Chuck Person wasn't handing out money, right? He also wasn't doing something illicit to bring players to Auburn. He accepted bribes to steer current players to a financial advisor/business manager. His lawyers indicated that he was in financial trouble following the end of his NBA career. Over the course of a year, PERSON, a former men’s basketball coach at Auburn University until shortly after his arrest, agreed to accept cash bribes in return for agreeing to exert his influence over student-athletes on the Division I men’s basketball team he coached to retain the services of the bribe-payers, including once the student-athletes entered the National Basketball Association (“NBA”). https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/chuck-person-former-division-i-men-s-basketball-coach-pleads-guilty-bribery-manhattan People like the one you are responding too have zero interest in the truth. Yasir Rosemond was literally involved in the same FBI probe, just didn't have the players worth bringing to the table. Edited March 4 by IndyResident16 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) 29 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: What is a broadside? I had read the same info as mentioned and summarized like this: Skipping recruiting days over the last 3 years. Recruits hearing from other HC more than Woodson. Needs major help from the portal to overhaul a roster. Choosing to pursue "ready-made" players instead of recruiting and developing HS kids Woodson publicly stating 2 point shots are good while having one of the worst 3 point rates 3 years in a row. HS, AAU, and other coaches/trainers have heard very little from a certain HC over the course of 3 years. It's March of year 3. It took until Feb. for Woodson to go see Sisley and Mullins, two of the top in-state prospects and he didn't see Mullins in a game until the sectional semifinals. Told Boogie Fland "Boogie, again, I cannot promise you minutes because I am anticipating that Xavier Johnson may be getting a seventh year..." I am literally just reposting what was posted on BTB and based on what Rabby has been posting. Edited March 4 by OGIUAndy 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 9 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: You realize Chuck Person wasn't handing out money, right? He also wasn't doing something illicit to bring players to Auburn. He accepted bribes to steer current players to a financial advisor/business manager. His lawyers indicated that he was in financial trouble following the end of his NBA career. Over the course of a year, PERSON, a former men’s basketball coach at Auburn University until shortly after his arrest, agreed to accept cash bribes in return for agreeing to exert his influence over student-athletes on the Division I men’s basketball team he coached to retain the services of the bribe-payers, including once the student-athletes entered the National Basketball Association (“NBA”). https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/chuck-person-former-division-i-men-s-basketball-coach-pleads-guilty-bribery-manhattan Really? "Of the alleged $91,500 Person received during the investigation, the complaint says Person claimed to have given $11,000 of that money to the mother of the first player and an additional $7,500 to the mother of the second player." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 2 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said: I had read the same info as mentioned and summarized like this: Skipping recruiting days over the last 3 years. Recruits hearing from other HC more than Woodson. Needs major help from the portal to overhaul a roster. Choosing to pursue "ready-made" players instead of recruiting and developing HS kids Woodson publicly stating 2 point shots are good while having one of the worst 3 point rates 3 years in a row. HS, AAU, and other coaches/trainers have heard very little from a certain HC over the course of 3 years. It's March of year 3. It took until Feb. for Woodson to go see Sisley and Mullins, two of the top in-state prospects and he didn't see Mullins in a game until the sectional semifinals. Told Boogie Fland "Boogie, again, I cannot promise you minutes because I am anticipating that Xavier Johnson may be getting a seventh year..." I am literally just reposting what was posted on BTB and based on what Rabby has been posting. Pretty telling when someone like Rabjohns writes something like this given that he's a literal mouthpiece for the university. Most of these are fireable offenses as single instances, a culmination of them....oh my. These reasons alone are why he shouldn't see a year 4 and notice none of them have to do with a "down" year. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: It was a simple question...Would ANY coach have survived with that record at IU...I think we all know the answer... You need to watch this video then determine for yourself if Scott Dolson would trade Mike Woodson and Bruce Pearl... I realize that this video was after Woody's first year, but "sticking with the plan" and "no timetable for success" are kinda the root of Scott Dolson as an AD...He cut his teeth under Knight, and I think he understands that every coach...Every coach, can have a year where things don't go as planned...He was a manager on the 85 team, so it's not like he's never seen IU finish under .500 in Big 10 play... So you are saying Woodson is sooooooo good, 2 years from now IU wins the NCAA championship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Really? "Of the alleged $91,500 Person received during the investigation, the complaint says Person claimed to have given $11,000 of that money to the mother of the first player and an additional $7,500 to the mother of the second player." Money to players that were CURRENTLY on Auburn's team. Chuck Person and by extension Pearl, wasn't "buying" recruits which is what you literally implied. Try and keep up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) 28 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Pretty telling when someone like Rabjohns writes something like this given that he's a literal mouthpiece for the university. Most of these are fireable offenses as single instances, a culmination of them....oh my. These reasons alone are why he shouldn't see a year 4 and notice none of them have to do with a "down" year. I agree and I am not a huge fan of "fire the coach" threads and hashtags, but he wasn't a great hire because of this. NBA guys don't grind like college guys do. He's making $4 million and enjoying life more than an average college coach. It seems he is definitely blowing off recruiting. But the administration kind of has an issue. His results have been "okay" until this year. But he was mainly rolling with TJD in the first two years. If he gets to 17 to 18 wins, it's going to be a tougher call than what we think. If they have a guy lined up (like Pearl) then that is one thing. That would be a power move. If they do a search and come out with mediocre candidate like the guys in the running last time then we are just rolling like the Bears/IU Football. Fire the coach every few years but never get better. Edited March 4 by OGIUAndy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: What odds do I get? A lot of variables...Don't know who we'll have on the roster...But let's just say if we have a nucleus of Reneau, Mgbako, and Cupps, I feel good about our chances...I'll be excited to see 2 shooters like McNeely and Mgbako out there... LOL...I burned $20 to prove the experience stuff...Hell yeah...at 10-1 I'd put $100 down You would need 10:1 odds on us making the tournament and you think that's an argument for keeping the coach?!? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 15 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said: I had read the same info as mentioned and summarized like this: Skipping recruiting days over the last 3 years. Recruits hearing from other HC more than Woodson. Needs major help from the portal to overhaul a roster. Choosing to pursue "ready-made" players instead of recruiting and developing HS kids Woodson publicly stating 2 point shots are good while having one of the worst 3 point rates 3 years in a row. HS, AAU, and other coaches/trainers have heard very little from a certain HC over the course of 3 years. It's March of year 3. It took until Feb. for Woodson to go see Sisley and Mullins, two of the top in-state prospects and he didn't see Mullins in a game until the sectional semifinals. Told Boogie Fland "Boogie, again, I cannot promise you minutes because I am anticipating that Xavier Johnson may be getting a seventh year..." I am literally just reposting what was posted on BTB and based on what Rabby has been posting. The X thing cannot be true. Like I just cannot fathom that. I don't care if the Pope grants him a 7th year he better not be at IU next year. Holy cow. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 44 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: What is a broadside? Really criticized him in a way you don't normally see those guys do if they want access. Took him to task for, in so many words, basically being kind of lazy about recruiting. Again, that isn't first hand as I don't have the premium with Peegs but that is a Reader's Digest take on how I saw it presented. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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