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Stewart and Kopp


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They’re one dimensional and liabilities on defense. What do these guys bring to the table if they can’t/don’t shoot?  
 

I think we need to start looking at other options. Let’s give Bates more minutes. Maybe he can gain confidence. 

 

Edited by Hoosier987
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It’s the offense! We dribble to much! Michigan did a great job of get us all to one side  then pass the ball quickly to the other side to a wide open shooter! Johnson throws up to many junk shots hoping to get a foul called! Can you remember one time when he drove the lane and when it collapse he passed it out to a three point shooter! 

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3 hours ago, Hoosier987 said:

They’re one dimensional and liabilities on defense. What do these guys bring to the table if they can’t/don’t shoot?  
 

I think we need to start looking at other options. Let’s give Bates more minutes. Maybe he can gain confidence. 

 

Kopp hit his open shots today. They stick to him and Parker  like glue. Woody ran 3-4 plays for Stewert and he hit those. The other shots he missed were forced late shot clock stuff. They do what they are asked/capable of. Our other guards are so inconsistent even when they are open. Leal isn’t the answer yet, Trey missed all 5 of his shots, X looked pretty darn good, lander is hurt but he can’t play D. I’m not sure people understand we have a flawed roster. Michigan went 5 out and we can’t defend that. Iowa went 4 out and killed us with it. Not many teams can. Bates can’t hit the broad side of a barn. If we had stuck with him we would lose by 20 a night. 

Edited by Victobmyboy
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2 hours ago, OLDIUFAN said:

It’s the offense! We dribble to much! Michigan did a great job of get us all to one side  then pass the ball quickly to the other side to a wide open shooter! Johnson throws up to many junk shots hoping to get a foul called! Can you remember one time when he drove the lane and when it collapse he passed it out to a three point shooter! 

Not sure you noticed but they weren’t open. 

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2 hours ago, Victobmyboy said:

Not sure you noticed but they weren’t open. 

Mostly because they don't move to get open.  When was the last time you saw them running off screens,. curling through the paint or trying rub off a defender to get open.  I am not calling them lazy but they don't seem to try very hard to get open when they don't have the ball.  

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10 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Mostly because they don't move to get open.  When was the last time you saw them running off screens,. curling through the paint or trying rub off a defender to get open.  I am not calling them lazy but they don't seem to try very hard to get open when they don't have the ball.  

Yep, when we are just in our standard offense we don’t move nearly enough. When we have set plays though, we have good movement and shocker… we get open (see PS near the end of the Michigan game & Robs last two shots against Purdue). We are capable of running good offense (at least sets), but we don’t make it a priority to have off ball movement or for our shooters to come off screens with an opportunity to shoot.

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1 hour ago, 02Hoosier said:

Yep, when we are just in our standard offense we don’t move nearly enough. When we have set plays though, we have good movement and shocker… we get open (see PS near the end of the Michigan game & Robs last two shots against Purdue). We are capable of running good offense (at least sets), but we don’t make it a priority to have off ball movement or for our shooters to come off screens with an opportunity to shoot.

Why didn't we do that all game for PS.  Why don't we try all game to get the ball into the hands of the guy who shoots 50% from 3.  But he also needs to up his game and do the little things to get open and not just stand there hoping the ball comes to him and he is open.  He and Kopp do that most of the game or unless they a specific play set up for them to get open.  If PS shoot 10 more times a game and hit at 40%, we win some of these close game we have lost.

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19 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Why didn't we do that all game for PS.  Why don't we try all game to get the ball into the hands of the guy who shoots 50% from 3.  But he also needs to up his game and do the little things to get open and not just stand there hoping the ball comes to him and he is open.  He and Kopp do that most of the game or unless they a specific play set up for them to get open.  If PS shoot 10 more times a game and hit at 40%, we win some of these close game we have lost.

Couldn’t agree more… especially when you know Trayce is going to struggle going up against a guy that’s bigger than him. I will give Kopp some credit as he does have a midrange pull up game that allows him to have a little more dimension to his offense. But outside of that, those two just stand stand on the wing/corner 90% of the time which doesn’t add anything to the offense. With our defense where it is, I’d like to see the staff working on this area in practice. Maybe they are, but it doesn’t seem evident based on their gameplay.

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1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Why didn't we do that all game for PS.  Why don't we try all game to get the ball into the hands of the guy who shoots 50% from 3.  But he also needs to up his game and do the little things to get open and not just stand there hoping the ball comes to him and he is open.  He and Kopp do that most of the game or unless they a specific play set up for them to get open.  If PS shoot 10 more times a game and hit at 40%, we win some of these close game we have lost.

Because they all stand around and watch Trayce and Race work down low. Also, yesterday Michigan played a zone defense a good portion of the game and it killed us. We clearly weren't ready for it. We handled it better at Syracuse even than yesterday. Also, Michigan picking us up full court with that trapping zone press. Brilliant! It forced a couple turnovers but it typically burnt a good 10 seconds off the clock before we could get into a set. We already run a slow half court offense working inside out etc so they did a great job forcing us into some bad looks late in the clock. We HAVE to get better at the press and zone defense....we just don't play well against it at all! Saw this against Iowa as well. Teams with long wings gave our guards issues and made us work just to get it up the court. A man press wouldn't bother Rob and Stewart but when we have to bring back Race to see over the zone....you know we are in trouble. We also didn't break it in a manner to score either. Those guards have to be decisive and aggressive to push the ball up the floor and split that trap before it get's there....get them on their heels and get to the second level so they can drive and hit floaters or toss those alley oops to Trayce. We just look way way to passive which actually plays right into that defense! I get it if you dont' have great ball handlers you may not wanting them to try to dribble to beat a zone...but that is just too primitive a way to look at it. You can also set picks to open up the court as well....full and half court. We have Rob and Xavier (two) point guards on the floor together most of the time...no reason to struggle with any sort of press.

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Kopp and Stewart are match up guys for us imo. They do help space the floor and give us a legit shooting threat. Both are fairly high basketball IQ guys....meaning the don't turn it over a lot or try to do too much. Michigan was just way more athletic then we were at the wings and Kopp really looked slow where as against Purdue he could easily guard his man. I think both are very valuable assets to this team. After all we didn't have either last year and we were begging for ANYONE that could hit a three....EVEN WIDE OPEN 3's last year. This year when they are open....I think it's going in...I'm actually shocked when it doesn't. That said they are pretty one dimensional and I kind of think we might be better off playing them separately then having both on the court together so much (at least unless the matchup allows). I'm not sure who should be starting as I think Rob/Trey's roles are perfect for them coming off the bench. Rob's more because I think he plays more free off the bench and Trey because the energy he brings off the bench. It's like a jolt in the arm right after that first tv timeout when the early game adrenaline is going away for the starters and then BAM!! Our defense and offensive intensity jolts right back up! So the question...is who should start instead. I know it might sound crazy...but I'd like to see Bates start. He can shoot the 3 as well to space the floor but he also has that shot fake and ability to drive and knock down a jumper. Maybe it wouldn't work but I don't think his defense is any worse than Parker's and maybe we could get him rolling early. I feel like a shooter like Stewart...kid is born ready to shoot and could easily come off the bench and be effective. Also...starting Bates I think allows us to go to Rob earlier if he isn't playing effectively. I feel like we try to give both Kopp and Stewart longer runs because they are upper classman but with a freshman I think the leash can be shorter. I also wouldn't mind seeing when Trey comes in we let him play alongside Parker because he can take on the best defensive assignment plus his driving ability opens up looks from outside whether the first or second pass and Parker is better equipped to knock that down. Anyways....just my feelings...but Woody knows what he is doing and what he wants to do. He has seen all these kids play together in practice every day and knows which lineups work best together.

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36 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Kopp and Stewart are match up guys for us imo. They do help space the floor and give us a legit shooting threat. Both are fairly high basketball IQ guys....meaning the don't turn it over a lot or try to do too much. Michigan was just way more athletic then we were at the wings and Kopp really looked slow where as against Purdue he could easily guard his man. I think both are very valuable assets to this team. After all we didn't have either last year and we were begging for ANYONE that could hit a three....EVEN WIDE OPEN 3's last year. This year when they are open....I think it's going in...I'm actually shocked when it doesn't. That said they are pretty one dimensional and I kind of think we might be better off playing them separately then having both on the court together so much (at least unless the matchup allows). I'm not sure who should be starting as I think Rob/Trey's roles are perfect for them coming off the bench. Rob's more because I think he plays more free off the bench and Trey because the energy he brings off the bench. It's like a jolt in the arm right after that first tv timeout when the early game adrenaline is going away for the starters and then BAM!! Our defense and offensive intensity jolts right back up! So the question...is who should start instead. I know it might sound crazy...but I'd like to see Bates start. He can shoot the 3 as well to space the floor but he also has that shot fake and ability to drive and knock down a jumper. Maybe it wouldn't work but I don't think his defense is any worse than Parker's and maybe we could get him rolling early. I feel like a shooter like Stewart...kid is born ready to shoot and could easily come off the bench and be effective. Also...starting Bates I think allows us to go to Rob earlier if he isn't playing effectively. I feel like we try to give both Kopp and Stewart longer runs because they are upper classman but with a freshman I think the leash can be shorter. I also wouldn't mind seeing when Trey comes in we let him play alongside Parker because he can take on the best defensive assignment plus his driving ability opens up looks from outside whether the first or second pass and Parker is better equipped to knock that down. Anyways....just my feelings...but Woody knows what he is doing and what he wants to do. He has seen all these kids play together in practice every day and knows which lineups work best together.

Both your post has alot of words in there and well, my brain hurts to much to read it all.  got the gist though.  All i am saying is they need to move more and get themselves open.  Are they quick and fast players? No.  Can they do more than stand there and watch Trace and Race do all the work?  Yes.  They can constantly be moving.  Not hard to guard 2 guys standing in the corner or wing.

 

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Made the point weeks ago Miller and Parker both serve the same purpose and should not be on the floor at the same time. They are both meant to space the floor on offense. Unfortunately, Kopp does not defend the dribble, rebound, or handle the ball at a high level. Parker is a better ball handler than Kopp but not great and though his defense is better it is also limited because he commits a lot of fouls. You can have one on the floor at a time but unless the defense is really sagging off you cannot have both out there together. UM played zone and IU still couldn't find a way to consistently get open shots. (A separate discussion can be had on why our current PG's and the current scheme is not doing enough to get shooters open).

To be clear, I don't think it would have made a difference against UM. The unwillingness to adjust to the high pick UM was running on offense letting their ball handlers get downhill meant IU defenders were always chasing the ball/rotating and UM was spotting up for wide open shots everywhere. That's on the coaches. But in general, IU is better served with one more guy who can break down the defense off the dribble (to get a shooter open/force the defense to rotate) and who can defend well enough to keep the ball in front of them. In my opinion, Galloway offers more overall as a starter and let Geronimo be the energy guy off the bench. Rotate Kopp and Parker as shooters.

Let me see Galloway start and get the 24 minutes a game Kopp is currently getting. Kopp can get the 18 minutes Galloway has been getting. I think the ROI would be a plus for both and Galloway would not only match Kopp's 6.6 points (TG already averages 5.6) but he also improves on the rebounding, steals, and assists over what Kopp is getting now. It would just be a matter of putting up with some additional turnovers and that would improve with more playing time.

Or, you can stay with the current setup and hope it all works out. I'd rather find out now while there is still time.

Edited by Euroclydon
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i am not a fan of Kopp's game personally.  i am a little more fan of Stewart's, but definitely don't like them together and am all for subbing them out more quickly when they aren't taking and making shots.  that said... don't underestimate the value of defenders not being able to help off them.  those are things that don't show up in the box score.  in the past, defenders could sag in the lane much more with poor shooters out there.  

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22 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i am not a fan of Kopp's game personally.  i am a little more fan of Stewart's, but definitely don't like them together and am all for subbing them out more quickly when they aren't taking and making shots.  that said... don't underestimate the value of defenders not being able to help off them.  those are things that don't show up in the box score.  in the past, defenders could sag in the lane much more with poor shooters out there.  

I remember you not being a fan of the starting lineup and being in favor of a change and lately it seems that the starting lineup hasn’t been able to put anything together. Stewart and Kopp fit the exact same way in our offense and we just can’t afford the have two people standing on the wing/corner at the same time. Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing one of them being benched because our current offense doesn’t seem to work well when they’re both out there.

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1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Both your post has alot of words in there and well, my brain hurts to much to read it all.  got the gist though.  All i am saying is they need to move more and get themselves open.  Are they quick and fast players? No.  Can they do more than stand there and watch Trace and Race do all the work?  Yes.  They can constantly be moving.  Not hard to guard 2 guys standing in the corner or wing.

 

Mostly I just want to split them up....I think both can play valuable parts on our team as overall we lack shooting...but wondering if having both on the court together is something that the B1G opponents are starting to attack now that they have tape on us. Both struggle mightily against length and athleticism....well everyone does but they just are neutralized much more because of their inability to attack the basket or keep defenders in front.

Edited by dgambill
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1 hour ago, Euroclydon said:

In my opinion, Galloway offers more overall as a starter and let Geronimo be the energy guy off the bench. Rotate Kopp and Parker as shooters.

Let me see Galloway start and get the 24 minutes a game Kopp is currently getting. Kopp can get the 18 minutes Galloway has been getting. I think the ROI would be a plus for both and Galloway would not only match Kopp's 6.6 points (TG already averages 5.6) but he also improves on the rebounding, steals, and assists over what Kopp is getting now. It would just be a matter of putting up with some additional turnovers and that would improve with more playing time.

Or, you can stay with the current setup and hope it all works out. I'd rather find out now while there is still time.

I'd rather see Geronimo start in Kopp's place rather than Galloway. He's a better 3 pt shooter (33%, close to Kopp's 37%) and his scoring and rebounding per minutes played is better than either Kopp or Galloway. 

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2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I'd rather see Geronimo start in Kopp's place rather than Galloway. He's a better 3 pt shooter (33%, close to Kopp's 37%) and his scoring and rebounding per minutes played is better than either Kopp or Galloway. 

Agree especially considering some of the bigger wings we face in the B1G like Murray/Davis/Christie/Houston etc...and all very athletic. Don't get me wrong...Kopp has matchups where I trust him more...just like guarding Stefanovic the other night....he didn't lack speed and he was crafty and knew exactly where he wanted to go and contest his shots...and there are some others he matches up against as well...but I can see where perhaps bringing him off the bench could help...specifically where we can dictate the matchups on who he will be guarding....kind of the same for Stewart as well but I like having at least one out there to balance the floor and space it. I just doubt we move Kopp to the bench....something tells me we probably made some pretty strong assurances of playing time/starting if he came through the portal to us to land him. Not sure any of this really matters....when it comes winning time...Kopp is rarely on the floor to finish games.

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5 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

Screenshot_20220124-154242_Twitter.jpg

So the question becomes....do you change the starting lineup at risk of destroying the continuity of your bench...or do you try to find ways to better utilize your starting unit and get them going faster. Have to be careful that by making lineup changes you don't destroy what is working at trying to fix what has problems and end up with two broken units. I could see a tweak or two but doubt it will be lineup driven....probably running different sets etc to get some easy looks for our wings early and do a better job of getting out of the gate. I don't have the stat but I'd bet the start of the second half mirrors this as well....as we have seen IU struggle coming out of the locker room as well....Wisconsin, Iowa, Purdue, Michigan etc.

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6 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

Screenshot_20220124-154242_Twitter.jpg

I did something similar (although I didn’t add up points and only looked at the 1st half). I noticed that the overall trend was that we either have gotten out to an early deficit or the game was relatively even through the first several minutes. 

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16 minutes ago, dgambill said:

So the question becomes....do you change the starting lineup at risk of destroying the continuity of your bench...or do you try to find ways to better utilize your starting unit and get them going faster. Have to be careful that by making lineup changes you don't destroy what is working at trying to fix what has problems and end up with two broken units. I could see a tweak or two but doubt it will be lineup driven....probably running different sets etc to get some easy looks for our wings early and do a better job of getting out of the gate. I don't have the stat but I'd bet the start of the second half mirrors this as well....as we have seen IU struggle coming out of the locker room as well....Wisconsin, Iowa, Purdue, Michigan etc.

I would make a lineup change.  Leads we have built in the 1st half, dissolve in about 90 seconds of the 2nd half...drives me nuts. the subs are constantly digging out of holes the 1st unit got us into.

 

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18 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Mostly because they don't move to get open.  When was the last time you saw them running off screens,. curling through the paint or trying rub off a defender to get open.  I am not calling them lazy but they don't seem to try very hard to get open when they don't have the ball.  

This isn’t true. This isn’t a true motion offense. Those take to long to develop. He ran 4-5 plays for Parker and he hit all but one. He ran a few more but Michigan adjusted. It’s actually funny when people start saying Parker and Kopp should move without the ball. They set up exactly where they are supposed to. They catch and shoot 3s at a very high percentage  clip. Problem is they are literally our best shooters. They get taken out of plays because they are the focus. They leave all our other “shooters” open. Wonder why? You won’t see anyone come off those two to double the post. Michigan went zone with Parker and Kopp out of the game too. Why? Because they are our only consistent shooters. Look at this. 
 

https://www.hoop-math.com/Indiana2022.php

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4 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

This isn’t true. This isn’t a true motion offense. Those take to long to develop. He ran 4-5 plays for Parker and he hit all but one. He ran a few more but Michigan adjusted. It’s actually funny when people start saying Parker and Kopp should move without the ball. They set up exactly where they are supposed to. They catch and shoot 3s at a very high percentage  clip. Problem is they are literally our best shooters. They get taken out of plays because they are the focus. They leave all our other “shooters” open. Wonder why? You won’t see anyone come off those two to double the post. Michigan went zone with Parker and Kopp out of the game too. Why? Because they are our only consistent shooters. Look at this. 
 

https://www.hoop-math.com/Indiana2022.php

100% this

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