FKIM01 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: This needs to be a breakout year. Freaking Rutgers has passed us up and their coach has been at the helm one year longer than Miller and nobody in their right mind would argue that Rutgers is a better job. Absolutely impressed with what the Rutgers coach has done. I don't see them finishing the season anywhere near #11 though. Hats off to Pikiell if he pulls that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: Absolutely impressed with what the Rutgers coach has done. I don't see them finishing the season anywhere near #11 though. Hats off to Pikiell if he pulls that off. Probably not, but the fact they are getting ranked in the Top 15, Rutgers, with a coach who has been on the job one year longer than Miller has been here, should kind of tell us what we should expect this year and next out of Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison22 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 On 12/21/2020 at 10:23 PM, go_iu_bb said: This means that Miller is doing a poor job of evaluating players and how they'll fit within his system regardless of terror ranking Can we all agree that listing players according to a Terror Ranking would be totally awesome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_iu_bb Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just now, Madison22 said: Can we all agree that listing players according to a Terror Ranking would be totally awesome? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 crap. i said if we won tonight we'd be in the top 25 Monday. didn't realize we play @ Illinois Sunday. ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 27 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: Absolutely impressed with what the Rutgers coach has done. I don't see them finishing the season anywhere near #11 though. Hats off to Pikiell if he pulls that off. I’m going to make a bold prediction: Rutgers will end up ranked higher than Iowa. ....I just can’t get on that Iowa bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 15 hours ago, KoB2011 said: 12-8 would be great, but I don't think if we end up 11-9 or 10-10 we should balk at that with our schedule. That should put us a solid notch above where we would have been seeded last year. I will be disappointed with 10 and 10. At a certain point I don't want to hear about how good our schedule is, the coach needs to put together a team and a plan to compete with that schedule. 10 and 10 is not something I will be thrilled about in year 4. Tired of mediocre results and .500 in conference is M-E-D-I-O-C-R-E. That is a 15-12 overall record which is just garbage at Indiana. Sorry. I know that this program has basically been wrecked by its caretakers but my lord, I think we have to start having some expectations at some point. This idea that it is soooooo hard to build a basketball team at one of the Top 8 programs (historically) in the nation is just poppycock. Rutgers was 6th in the conference last year, their coach entering the same year at Rutgers as Archie is this and they finished in the top half of the conference. Brad Underwood started the same year as Miller and they are ranked. Excuses are done for me. Results are what matter. Other coaches in the same conference who have been around about as long as Miller are already in people's "that is going to be next to impossible to win" column and we are talking like 10-10 is an accomplishment. Barf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Probably not, but the fact they are getting ranked in the Top 15, Rutgers, with a coach who has been on the job one year longer than Miller has been here, should kind of tell us what we should expect this year and next out of Miller. You're welcome to have those expectations and they may well be reached. I'm bullish on IU but am not one to pick out specific rankings or wins to measure success. I know that drives a portion of IU's fan base crazy, but I prefer to measure overall progress. If progress in offensive and defensive rankings continue, rankings and wins will take care of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, FKIM01 said: You're welcome to have those expectations and they may well be reached. I'm bullish on IU but am not one to pick out specific rankings or wins to measure success. I know that drives a portion of IU's fan base crazy, but I prefer to measure overall progress. If progress in offensive and defensive rankings continue, rankings and wins will take care of themselves. The statistic that matters the most to me is W's. That is what takes care of everything else. Nobody gives a crap how awesome your defense was if you are .550 at the end of the year. Wins and Championships (conference and otherwise) are what matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just now, IUCrazy2 said: The statistic that matters the most to me is W's. That is what takes care of everything else. Nobody gives a crap how awesome your defense was if you are .550 at the end of the year. Wins and Championships (conference and otherwise) are what matter. ...but yet you'll probably complain about "too many cupcakes" if the schedule is too easy. Sorry man...we will not agree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: crap. i said if we won tonight we'd be in the top 25 Monday. didn't realize we play @ Illinois Sunday. ugh. Only lost to them by 1 last year and that was with some questionable calls going their way... Justin Smith guarded Ayo last time though and did a pretty fair job on him...We'll see if Armaan can do better... Cockburn and Feliz killed us though...Race can do better than Joey did, and Feliz is gone via graduation... I'm not real high on the Whinin Illini...running up 60 point wins on nobodies doesn't impress me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: You're welcome to have those expectations and they may well be reached. I'm bullish on IU but am not one to pick out specific rankings or wins to measure success. I know that drives a portion of IU's fan base crazy, but I prefer to measure overall progress. If progress in offensive and defensive rankings continue, rankings and wins will take care of themselves. completely agree. I watched a bit of the Georgia game last night. They looked lethargic for much of the game. I do not miss that at all. One of the main reasons i am bought in on CAM is that you can tell the players are bought in. Even though they may have offensive droughts, the defense is still intense, everyone hustles and grinds. Theres a difference in losing games because of missing shots, and losing games because of lack of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: ...but yet you'll probably complain about "too many cupcakes" if the schedule is too easy. Sorry man...we will not agree on this one. and if IU wins, "they should have won by more." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: From the TDH Preview... Television: Big Ten Network (Brandon Gaudin and Jess Settles) 😯 Hello Fisch ! Here I come. Settles may know more than me on Bball, but I can't stand to listen to him. I'll take Fisch anytime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just now, FKIM01 said: ...but yet you'll probably complain about "too many cupcakes" if the schedule is too easy. Sorry man...we will not agree on this one. The conference schedule is what it is every year. You beat the teams put in front of you. Making excuses that you have to play other tough teams is just that, an excuse. Preseason tournament every year, BIG/ACC opponent, Butler/Notre Dame...and a few times every 5 years a Big East opponent....those are basically set in stone. They can fill the rest of the schedule with sub 300 teams and all the win column doesn't change. Indiana has to start winning in conference again. That is where wins matter the most. You can talk statistical improvement all you want, but all anyone recruiting against us has to point out is that A)their offense is boring and B)for all the improvement in their defense: 6th to 9th to 10th in conference. Follow that up with .500 ball with teams like Illinois and Rutgers having passed you up and you have a problem. Our recruiting in 2021 was a disaster with a capital D. I know we are talking about transfers and all of that, but after Lander's reclass, we whiffed on every single one of the major targets we were after. Every. One. This game is an absolute must win. Beating a few of the teams that are "better" than us is a necessity while taking care of business against the teams we should beat. Year 4 is where we kept hearing we were going to start seeing results on the court from everyone remaining optimistic the past 3 years and now we are moving the goal post again because programs that were below us when Miller started have leapfrogged us thus making the conference "tougher". I would say that if Miller was earning his check, then this year programs like Illinois should have a tougher road to hoe because they had to play us, not the other way around. Wins are expected in year 4, not moral victories based on minor statistical improvements. None of that amounts to a hill of beans if you don't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: The conference schedule is what it is every year. You beat the teams put in front of you. Making excuses that you have to play other tough teams is just that, an excuse. Preseason tournament every year, BIG/ACC opponent, Butler/Notre Dame...and a few times every 5 years a Big East opponent....those are basically set in stone. They can fill the rest of the schedule with sub 300 teams and all the win column doesn't change. Indiana has to start winning in conference again. That is where wins matter the most. You can talk statistical improvement all you want, but all anyone recruiting against us has to point out is that A)their offense is boring and B)for all the improvement in their defense: 6th to 9th to 10th in conference. Follow that up with .500 ball with teams like Illinois and Rutgers having passed you up and you have a problem. Our recruiting in 2021 was a disaster with a capital D. I know we are talking about transfers and all of that, but after Lander's reclass, we whiffed on every single one of the major targets we were after. Every. One. This game is an absolute must win. Beating a few of the teams that are "better" than us is a necessity while taking care of business against the teams we should beat. Year 4 is where we kept hearing we were going to start seeing results on the court from everyone remaining optimistic the past 3 years and now we are moving the goal post again because programs that were below us when Miller started have leapfrogged us thus making the conference "tougher". I would say that if Miller was earning his check, then this year programs like Illinois should have a tougher road to hoe because they had to play us, not the other way around. Wins are expected in year 4, not moral victories based on minor statistical improvements. None of that amounts to a hill of beans if you don't win. Again...we'll have to disagree...on many things it appears. I've got too much to do on my last day in the office this week to address all this but I'll go back to what I've repeated ad nauseum...if the offensive and defensive rankings continue to improve as they have, the rest will take care of itself. Focusing on national rankings where disasters like Duke and UK have been getting far too much love and simple win-loss numbers is silly and short-sighted, as is focusing on losing a couple of recruiting battles. Everything you are moaning about will be taken care of if the offensive and defensive ratings continue to improve. That is all I'm saying on the matter...Merry Christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, ledies22 said: and if IU wins, "they should have won by more." Strawmen. Seriously, I would be happy with wins against conference foes at this point. I don't care if they are by 1 or 100. I was told we need to give 5 years to a guy. This is year 4. This is the year where all that statistical improvement in years 1 through 3 is supposed to start showing up in the win column for all the examples that get trotted out (Coach K, Izzo, Bennett, Wright, etc.) So when exactly are we supposed to start seeing improvements in the win column. As to Georgia...nobody is pining for Crean but in his 4th year at Indiana we went 27-9 and made it to the Sweet 16 you want to argue that what he was left with after Sampson was a better situation than Miller? At a certain point the excuses need to stop and the wins need to start. For me that time is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, FKIM01 said: if the offensive and defensive rankings continue to improve as they have, the rest will take care of itself. Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: Again...we'll have to disagree...on many things it appears. I've got too much to do on my last day in the office this week to address all this but I'll go back to what I've repeated ad nauseum...if the offensive and defensive rankings continue to improve as they have, the rest will take care of itself. Focusing on national rankings where disasters like Duke and UK have been getting far too much love and simple win-loss numbers is silly and short-sighted, as is fosuing on losing a couple of recruiting battles. Everything you are moaning about will be taken care of if the offensive and defensive ratings continue to improve. That is all I'm saying on the matter...Merry Christmas! And how long do we give? I mean if our offensive rating goes up 1% and defense goes up by 3% that is an improvement. I mean you can point to incremental improvements each year but what if those improvements are so small that it takes 6 or 7 years before you are sniffing the top half of your conference? If your improvements are not enough to quickly (and by quickly I am talking 4 or 5 years to just finish in the top 7 of a 14 team conference) then are the improvements enough? I would argue, no, they are not. Now you can scoff at the recruiting and rankings but they are important. Rankings show recruits that you are a winning program and Jim's and Joe's are extremely important when trying to maintain a winning program. Miller has built his team on guys that are mostly in the 80+ rankings, this is particularly true of our guards. So we have a bunch of back up guards for good programs as our starters. R.P. and A.D. don't start for programs that are regularly in the Top 25. That is not meant as a big knock on them, just reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 This side discussion started because of an idea that we could be tracking Tony Bennett’s progression. Bennett went 11-7 in year four and that’s pretty instructive on where we should be this year, with next year being the big blowout year to go really big and stay there. 10-10 is an insignificant increase over last year. Statistically meaningless. You go 10-10 and you’re looking at a program leveling off and not winning at a rate commensurate with its talent level. I don’t see that happening. This team has way too much potential for that to happen. I am sticking with the Tony Bennett trajectory and targeting 12-8. Maybe 13-7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: This side discussion started because of an idea that we could be tracking Tony Bennett’s progression. Bennett went 11-7 in year four and that’s pretty instructive on where we should be this year, with next year being the big blowout year to go really big and stay there. 10-10 is an insignificant increase over last year. Statistically meaningless. You go 10-10 and you’re looking at a program leveling off and not winning at a rate commensurate with its talent level. I don’t see that happening. This team has way too much potential for that to happen. I am sticking with the Tony Bennett trajectory and targeting 12-8. Maybe 13-7. To me that is the fair expectation in year 4. Which is what I started out by saying that 10 and 10 in conference is a bad year IMO. People say it is just 2 more wins, but those 2 wins go a long way toward perception. Miller absolutely needs to change the perception of his program because I think these recruiting misses point to the idea that the honeymoon period is over. He is no longer selling a concept, he is now having to sell an actual product and that sales pitch did not go well this past year. Not well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: I am sticking with the Tony Bennett trajectory and targeting 12-8. Maybe 13-7. I've gone thru the schedule a couple of times in the last 2 weeks, I'm thinking 13-7...maybe...14-6 (because of our defense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just now, IUCrazy2 said: To me that is the fair expectation in year 4. Which is what I started out by saying that 10 and 10 in conference is a bad year IMO. People say it is just 2 more wins, but those 2 wins go a long way toward perception. Miller absolutely needs to change the perception of his program because I think these recruiting misses point to the idea that the honeymoon period is over. He is no longer selling a concept, he is now having to sell an actual product and that sales pitch did not go well this past year. Not well at all. I thought we were 9-11 last year. We went 8-12? Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, DWB said: I've gone thru the schedule a couple of times in the last 2 weeks, I'm thinking 13-7...maybe...14-6. I would be thrilled with that and I think it would be a huge help to Miller during the summer when he is recruiting. Transfers look for a program where they can win. You can sell that record as being close to competing for a championship much better than you can 10-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 23, 2020 Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said: I thought we were 9-11 last year. We went 8-12? Ugh. 9-11 is right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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